Contact Cord Specs Question

[EEL]

While watching the Gordon Brown DVD, I noticed the contact tow gear he demoed was made from what appeared to be rather thin cord and small biners. Is there a general rule/opinion about the diameter of cord for making a contact tow and strength of biners for this application. In hindsight I'm thinking I've overbuilt mine as the RDFs would get ripped out out before the tow would break.

Thanks.

Ed Lawson

[PeterB]

While watching the Gordon Brown DVD, I noticed the contact tow gear he demoed was made from what appeared to be rather thin cord and small biners. Is there a general rule/opinion about the diameter of cord for making a contact tow and strength of biners for this application. In hindsight I'm thinking I've overbuilt mine as the RDFs would get ripped out out before the tow would break.

Thanks.

Ed Lawson

Certainly, Mr. Brown's thinner cord and smaller biners will do the job of towing, once deployed and attached, as well as the "standard" cord & biner most of us use; the question is how does it feel in the hand, how easy or not it is to handle and use. But thats probably more a personal thing; a few paddlers I know have quite small carabiners, many don't. In general, large carabiners are seen as a good thing not that their larger size makes them more reliable or stronger , but that they are easier to handle (e.g. operating the gate with cold fingers etc)

my guess is that if you're talking about a force great enough to break either the tow line , biner or rdf, a smaller or larger biner would not be the weakest point, it would be either the rdf or the tow line. But in either case if you're in a situation where a force that great is put on the tow, where it breaks is probably the least of your problems, and its probably for the good that it break somewhere.

one drawback I've heard to thinner cord is that it tangles easier than thicker cord., e.g. , when its stowed /jumbled in the tow bag. I think its a surface area/topology thing, better explained by someone more conversant in such matters than myself.

[EEL]

the question is how does it feels in the hand, how easy or not it is to handle and use.

Thanks Peter.

That's where I came out making mine. I wanted cord large enough to be able to handle without cutting hand too much under load, decent biners to use quickly by feel and with gloved hands, and not so small as to develop a rats nest easily let alone forming loops that could catch body parts. His stuff was so small it made me question things. I do not recall seeing anyone use similar sized cord for that application.

Ed Lawson

[jason]

Thanks Peter.

That's where I came out making mine. I wanted cord large enough to be able to handle without cutting hand too much under load, decent biners to use quickly by feel and with gloved hands, and not so small as to develop a rats nest easily let alone forming loops that could catch body parts. His stuff was so small it made me question things. I do not recall seeing anyone use similar sized cord for that application.

Ed Lawson

I really like the looks of this contact tow setup:

http://www.virginiaseakayakcenter.com/catalog.php?item=24&catid=Safety%20Gear

I think that a number of people in the club have it.

-Jason

[PeterB]

Thanks Peter.

That's where I came out making mine. I wanted cord large enough to be able to handle without cutting hand too much under load, decent biners to use quickly by feel and with gloved hands, and not so small as to develop a rats nest easily let alone forming loops that could catch body parts. His stuff was so small it made me question things. I do not recall seeing anyone use similar sized cord for that application.

Ed Lawson

aww shucks,I didn't read your post carefully enough : sorrrrrry. ; you're talking contact tows, not regular tow line.

Since a contact tow is not too long entanglement is less of an issue. Heres mine: : biner is smaller than on my tow belt, and the cord is thicker than standard perimeter deck line but thinner than line on my tow belt. Hope this helps.

[bob budd]

Bigger rope and 'biners are definitely easier to find/handle, especially with gloves and/or when cold. Consider tying a longer line, about 3x length, and use what I was taught was a "sheep shank" (I still call it that, a series of loops within loops, but it appears it is a chain knot) to shorten it pulling the last loop around the 'biner (so it won't unravel). This is a stout line that won't tangle, is easy to handle, also makes a quick stirrup and/or enough line when undone to tie up an unrigged boat for towing.

[bbjorn]

Bigger rope and 'biners are definitely easier to find/handle, especially with gloves and/or when cold. Consider tying a longer line, about 3x length, and use what I was taught was a "sheep shank" (I still call it that, a series of loops within loops, but it appears it is a chain knot) to shorten it pulling the last loop around the 'biner (so it won't unravel). This is a stout line that won't tangle, is easy to handle, also makes a quick stirrup and/or enough line when undone to tie up an unrigged boat for towing.

AKA. a daisy chain. This is what I've been using and works fairly well. The one problem I have with this system is that, once daisy-chained, the line is much thicker and tends to snag if you need to pull it out from under the decklines.

[jason]

Bigger rope and 'biners are definitely easier to find/handle, especially with gloves and/or when cold. Consider tying a longer line, about 3x length, and use what I was taught was a "sheep shank" (I still call it that, a series of loops within loops, but it appears it is a chain knot) to shorten it pulling the last loop around the 'biner (so it won't unravel). This is a stout line that won't tangle, is easy to handle, also makes a quick stirrup and/or enough line when undone to tie up an unrigged boat for towing.

Bob,

Do you do that on a contact tow? That's what I do with my normal long tow. (I also carry an extension setup that can extend it out another 50').

-Jason

[bob budd]

Dee and I have our boats set up with what amounts to a transom, a deckline behind the seat with a quick release. The transom allows not only for quick release but allows the tow line to switch sides of the boat There is long and contact tow attached to it, with the open end biner's behind to the right and left. Also behind the seat is a web of elastic deckline to hold the long tow bag and short tow onto the deck. So the long and short/contact tows are in reach providing quick access and the contact tow can be extended as needed, even allowing a quick release of the last loop in the chain. I don't like tow belts or anything on my person for towing. The long tow also has a "loop" with an elastic to provide a shock absorber, great for long (duration) tows.

[EEL]

Do you do that on a contact tow?

Jason:

I do with the contact tow so it is just the width of the boat. Helps for a clean, uncluttered foredeck. However, for a longer length you need to release the "chain" and one reason why I'm curious about the rigging options Gordon shows. I aslo daisy the waist tow (most do, don't they?) so the immedaite length is reasonable for normal conditions.

Ed Lawson

[Pintail]

The whole point, to me, about <contact> towing is that since the one being towed <might> be incapacitated, you just might want and need to keep an eye on that person -- so the contact tow should be totally flexible, ie: front deck <or> aft. Having your rig behind you means you are limiting your options. I cannot see any debate being necessary for the diameter of the line or rope utilized (sorry, Ed). I do agree, however, with the reasoning concerning cold fingers and small line/carabiners.

I think we shall have to practise tows on those moonlight trips... ;^)

[PeterB]

The whole point, to me, about <contact> towing is that since the one being towed <might> be incapacitated, you just might want and need to keep an eye on that person -- so the contact tow should be totally flexible, ie: front deck <or> aft. Having your rig behind you means you are limiting your options. I cannot see any debate being necessary for the diameter of the line or rope utilized (sorry, Ed). I do agree, however, with the reasoning concerning cold fingers and small line/carabiners.

I think we shall have to practice tows on those moonlight trips... ;^)

And rescues too!

[djlewis]

I know this may be futile, but the terminology has gotten a bit crossed up in the past few years. Here's how I learned it, and have fairly recently verified with a couple of top coaches...

contact tow -- n. a tow executed without any line, simply by the towee holding onto the tower's boat (or person) with a hand.

short tow -- (1) n. a short tow line intended to hold the towee's boat alongside the tower's boat rather than trailing behind; (2) n. a tow executed with a short tow line.

If you want to continue using "contact tow" for "short tow" as defined above, fine. But then please propose another term for the above definition of "contact tow", as you've stolen its proper name. The contact tow (as defined here) is a very important technique -- it definitely needs a unique name.

[leong]

I know this may be futile, but the terminology has gotten a bit crossed up in the past few years. Here's how I learned it, and have fairly recently verified with a couple of top coaches...

contact tow -- n. a tow executed without any line, simply by the towee holding onto the tower's boat (or person) with a hand.

short tow -- (1) n. a short tow line intended to hold the towee's boat alongside the tower's boat rather than trailing behind; (2) n. a tow executed with a short tow line.

If you want to continue using "contact tow" for "short tow" as defined above, fine. But then please propose another term for the above definition of "contact tow", as you've stolen its proper name. The contact tow (as defined here) is a very important technique -- it definitely needs a unique name.

I think the current definition of contact tow is what David said; except, I believe that a contact tow also allows for a short tether to hold the tow-ee's kayak next to your kayak.

Not to hijack this thread, but coincidentally and related, I botched a contact tow just yesterday (actually Wednesday). Here’s the background and story:

Peanut Island is situated in the intracoastal bay between the Lake Worth Inlet and the mainland of the Palm Beach area of Florida. There is about a 1/8-mile channel between the west side of the island and the mainland. When I was paddling the area yesterday, the tide was coming in fast and flowing north on the west side of the island. In addition there was about a 20-knot wind also blowing north. I was doing a workout by multiple counter-clockwise loops around the island to take advantage of working against the strong tidal current and wind on the west side (the drift speed from the wind and the current was 3.5 mph as measured by my GPS).

On my third or fourth loop I spotted six teenaged girls in wide SOTs that were about to cross the channel from the island to their destination (a beach on the mainland adjacent to the kayak rental agency). It was obvious that they wouldn’t be able to make the direct crossing because of the sideways drift that they would encounter. So I went over and told them to walk their kayaks up-wind to the south end of the island and then paddle directly west, the idea being that between their paddling speed and the sideways drift they should get somewhere near their intended destination. Five of these girls followed my advice and one just began paddling directly across (I was in no mood to pull rank with a teenager).

Obviously, I was right and this sixth girl got caught in the current and drifted about a mile north in the middle of the channel … she was fighting the current the whole time. And obviously, I went out to rescue her, but sans a towline. My feeling was to contact-tow her back south if I could or Pan Pan for help. So off I went to try to set her up in a stern to bow configuration: she would rest and hold on to my stern and try to hold her bow against my hull. Her bow would be just about even with my cockpit … my Q700X is 18 feet long and her SOT was about 9 feet long. She did this and I began to tow her south, probably going only about 1 mph since I was going against a 3.5 mph drift rate and pulling a heavy and wide rec. boat (with a crying teenage girl). Then her bow swung out (she couldn’t hold the position) and I ended up towing her at about a right angle to my kayak. I couldn’t make any headway at all. We tried several times to set up the proper configuration but she was too tired and I didn’t have enough power to tow her sideways.

By this time the two of us were rafted together and drifting faster and faster towards a tidal race under the Blue Heron Bridge. I told her that I would radio for help but she asked me not to because she “didn’t want to get into trouble”. So I towed her downwind to the last marina just before the bridge and a couple of guys there threw me a line to secure to. To make a long story short, the marina guys pulled her and her kayak up onto the dock. I sped back to tell her friends that she was safe at that marina. As I was paddling away to continue my workout the five other girls were preparing to drive to the marina to pick her up.

Post Mortem:

1. Need to get stronger.

2. Bring a towline next time or at least a contact tow system like those discussed in this thread.

3. Any other suggestions (including telling me what I did wrong)?

[EEL]

I think the current definition of contact tow is what David said; except, I believe that a contact tow also allows for a short tether to hold the tow-ee's kayak next to your kayak.

Bingo!

Ed Lawson

[Pintail]

Leon, you are so right! Even if out for a quick practice or a solo play among the rocks, I think one should always carry that <one> item of gear -- the towline! Jed told of a similar occurence, once, many moons ago, and several of us learned from his story...

Good on you, Leon, by the way! Bravo.

[jason]

I like having my long tow with me even when I am solo. Not only is it good to help someone else out it can help my self too. I can use it if i was to come out of my boat to tether my self to my boat, I can use it to land my boat in a "no lading" landing etc.

Rumor is that I will be getting this spiffy contact tow setup for my birthday:

http://www.virginiaseakayakcenter.com/catalog.php?item=24&catid=Safety%20Gear

It will replace the bit of cord and two now salted up carabiners that I put together as my short tow a number of years ago.

-Jason

[PeterB]

Leon, you are so right! Even if out for a quick practice or a solo play among the rocks, I think one should always carry that <one> item of gear -- the towline! Jed told of a similar occurence, once, many moons ago, and several of us learned from his story...

Good on you, Leon, by the way! Bravo.

The girl was extremely lucky, Leon, to run into a paddler of your strength, experience, and abilities just when she needed to .

I don't think being even stronger than you already are would have made such a difference; having a tow belt would have. A contact or short tow is usually used for a short distance, to extract someone from some troublesome bit of water, or to raft up and be towed by a third person . I this case, where you had to travel a longer distance against current , a long tow might have have been more efficient, assuming the girl was stable and composed enough to be bit separated from your boat. , I think I would have tried my long tow (assuming I had it with me) , daisy- chained down to very short length so that girl was close to my boat (communication, comfort, etc) ,and then if she was either not stable enough or too distressed that she needed more support , gone to the kind of of contact tow like you did . Less than ideal than a longer tow for getting your raft to safety , but unavoidable in some instances.

[gyork]

aww shucks,I didn't read your post carefully enough : sorrrrrry. ; you're talking contact tows, not regular tow line.

Since a contact tow is not too long entanglement is less of an issue. Heres mine: : biner is smaller than on my tow belt, and the cord is thicker than standard perimeter deck line but thinner than line on my tow belt. Hope this helps.

Peter, where do I find 'biners like those pictured?

[Deb Millar]

I like having my long tow with me even when I am solo. Not only is it good to help someone else out it can help my self too. I can use it if i was to come out of my boat to tether my self to my boat, I can use it to land my boat in a "no lading" landing etc.

Rumor is that I will be getting this spiffy contact tow setup for my birthday:

http://www.virginiaseakayakcenter.com/catalog.php?item=24&catid=Safety%20Gear

It will replace the bit of cord and two now salted up carabiners that I put together as my short tow a number of years ago.

-Jason

Jason, Bob and I have had this system for 5 years after we first saw Ed Schiller and then various coaches use it at the SKG Symposium. I think it's a great rumor that you might be getting one for your b-day.

Deb

[djlewis]

Bingo!

Ed Lawson

Wellll... that would violate one of the primary distinguishing features (and advantages) of a contact tow as I defined it, namely the ability to release very easily, simply by letting go. It's also easy to engage a contact tow . Those two are probably the major factors in favor of a contact tow as you decide what technique to use in a given situation.

Perhaps yours should be called a _very_ short tow. You can call it what you want, but it ain't a contact tow in my book, fwiw. Maybe we should call it a banana. Or let's call it a day.

--David

[EEL]

but it ain't a contact tow in my book, fwiw.

Not that I care one way or the other, but it is in Gordon Brown's book.

Ed Lawson

[PeterB]

Peter, where do I find 'biners like those pictured?

Gary,

I got mine at West Marine: stainless steel so they don't crust corrode, etc. (also kind of pricey) But I ground mine down so they're lighter, less bulky& robust and more hand friendly (but still strong & sound) ; a custom job.

[billvoss]

she would rest and hold on to my stern and try to hold her bow against my hull. Her bow would be just about even with my cockpit … my Q700X is 18 feet long and her SOT was about 9 feet long. She did this and I began to tow her south, probably going only about 1 mph since I was going against a 3.5 mph drift rate and pulling a heavy and wide rec. boat (with a crying teenage girl). Then her bow swung out (she couldn’t hold the position) and I ended up towing her at about a right angle to my kayak. I couldn’t make any headway at all. We tried several times to set up the proper configuration but she was too tired and I didn’t have enough power to tow her sideways.

3. Any other suggestions (including telling me what I did wrong)?

I don't know if it would work, but did you try having her lean across your bow while you pushed, instead of your stern while you pulled?

In my limited experience practicing contact tows, I found a lot of abdominal strength was required when I was in the girl's position near the stern, but far less strength was required if I laid across the towing paddler's bow. Her boat might still have ended up at an angle to your boat, but I suspect closer to 45 degrees than 90 degrees, which might have been good enough.

[gyork]

While watching the Gordon Brown DVD, I noticed the contact tow gear he demoed was made from what appeared to be rather thin cord and small biners. Is there a general rule/opinion about the diameter of cord for making a contact tow and strength of biners for this application. In hindsight I'm thinking I've overbuilt mine as the RDFs would get ripped out out before the tow would break.

Great thread for an important (validated by Leon's timely input) piece of gear, that the "school bus" is lacking. Before I assemble my own version, incorporating Peter's simplicity/size and (soon-to-be [rumor]) Jason's adjustability, I still have some questions:

-Peter/others: How do you take up slack, if needed, in your single-line rigs?

-In the photo of the adjustable rig, is the outside-to-outside perimeter line attachment the recommended configuration for the tow?

-If not, could I consider permanently fixing my kayak's contact to only one of my perimeter deck lines, adding a side-release buckle between contacts?

As for the daisy-chained (preferably) tow belt, I like to wear it routinely. I've hastened a small, stalled, sailboat from the lee of an island to a windier passage.

gary