The ICOM M72 VHF is a great handheld, but ….

[leong]

Yeah, yeah, I know, many of you think the ICOM M72 is the best handheld VHF. Heck, I’ve been using this model for about 6 years. I think that it’s a great VHF too, except for the following two complaints.

1. The volume/on-off knob progressively gets stiffer and stiffer to turn and it eventually freezes. Yes, I use it almost everyday all year long without putting it in a vhf drybag (I want it ready for use and I want nothing between me and the controls and speaker/microphone). But it usually doesn’t get wet unless I’m out in heavy conditions. I put it inside a drybag for practice rolls. I do wash it in the sink after each use. After it gets very stiff I soak the control in a product called “Salt-Off” which helps, but the stiffness returns in a few weeks.

Anyone else have this problem?

2. The ICOM M72 squelch has 11 discrete squelch levels: one open, i.e. OP, which turns the squelch off; and 10 levels from loose squelch (1) to tight squelch (10). However, in reality there are only two relevant levels: (OP) and the lowest level, (1). Squelch level 1 always mutes the audio when there is no signal present but, sometimes, also mutes weak signals. The usual operation of a squelch would be to adjust the control until the audio just shuts off - then only a small threshold signal is needed to turn on the audio. I’ve never encountered the situation where a weak signal was annoying, so that I’ve never needed to raise the squelch level above 1. However, I have noticed that squelch level 1 does mute out weak signals that I do want to hear, such as Mayday calls. Therefore the other 9 squelch levels are useless. Although this second problem is minor compared to the first one (and was posted earlier), I’m still looking for a reasonable answer. I’d like to lower the threshold levels of the set of 10 squelch levels so that a level above 1 is the first level that first shuts the audio off. A call to Icom resulted in the usual answers of: look in the manual, our VHF meets all industry standards, blah, blah, blah ….

[EEL]

I have noticed that squelch level 1 does mute out weak signals that I do want to hear, such as Mayday calls.

Curious how you are aware of missing calls.

Therefore the other 9 squelch levels are useless.

There might well be environments where the higher squelch levels are useful even if not for you. I agree having a separate squelch control knob makes for a continuously variable squelch limit so you can fine tune it to just above the noise level. However they have two problems in a marine VHF handheld application. They can get sticky like the volume control and they can be moved by accident which be not good.

Nearly every handheld unit, regardless of the application, uses a series of preset squelch levels which the user selects. The trick becomes how well does the manufacturer programs those levels settings and what assumptions are made when doing so regarding the expected environment in which the radio is used. I assume you can open the squelch momentarily whenever you want by pressing a button on the 72 as that is a feature on most radios.

Ed Lawson

[leong]

Curious how you are aware of missing calls.

There might well be environments where the higher squelch levels are useful even if not for you. I agree having a separate squelch control knob makes for a continuously variable squelch limit so you can fine tune it to just above the noise level. However they have two problems in a marine VHF handheld application. They can get sticky like the volume control and they can be moved by accident which be not good.

Nearly every handheld unit, regardless of the application, uses a series of preset squelch levels which the user selects. The trick becomes how well does the manufacturer programs those levels settings and what assumptions are made when doing so regarding the expected environment in which the radio is used. I assume you can open the squelch momentarily whenever you want by pressing a button on the 72 as that is a feature on most radios.

Ed Lawson

Ed,

Yes, the same button that you press in order to change the squelch level turns off the squelch if you hold it in. I do it rarely. But yesterday, I was wake riding a catamaran (it was planned, I know the captain) and he suddenly yelled out he was speeding off to a distress call. I had my radio in scan mode and didn't hear the distress call on channel 16. Then I heard it after turning off the squelch (weak signal, but readable).

I'm not complaining about the number of discrete presets. I'm complaining that the levels of all the presets are too high, especially since the first one always mutes the audio.

Given the levels of the presets I can’t conceive of a “normal” situation where the higher squelch levels are useful. I use the VHF all over New England and in South Florida. Always the same, the first preset always mutes the audio.

I agree, for a marine handheld environment, the presets are better than a continuously adjustable knob.

Leon

[EEL]

Leon:

Caveat: designing radios is not my day job.

My experience is that once the knob becomes "sticky" its a lost cause. You can free it up, but the fix will always be temporary and it will just get worse in terms of how long it stays free and how hard it gets "stuck".

I agree with your assessment about the first preset squelch level. If folks want to explore this, here is a little task.

Cycle through the weather channels as those are stations which will be constantly transmitting and there should be many levels of signal strength.

If you are lucky, there will be one station that is quite weak and just readable and one station that is just strong enough to be heard, but is not readable or only with great difficulty. In an ideal world, the first squelch preset will allow you to hear the first, but will not "open" the squelch for the second. On my radios the squelch presets do not work on WX channels and I assume that is true for all as it makes sense. Depending upon our personal preferences, hearing, audio environment, and RF environment where each of us would draw the line as to what is a useful signal will likely differ.

My limited understanding is that the circuit/software is designed to measure the relative strength or proportion of high audio frequencies (noise) compared to those audio frequencies that carry the bulk of intelligibility of human speech. A very weak signal will have a high percentage of noise and there is a line where you cannot copy due to the amount of noise. The lowest preset would ideally be designed so that when the ratio is such that the signal just becomes readable (therein lies the rub), the squelch is opened. Where that line is drawn by the designers may be determined by many factors, but for kayakers having the line as low as possible is probably a good thing. If you are operating a tender in a mooring field or crew on a barge or large vessel it may not matter because you may normally run the squelch preset much higher to avoid hearing irrelevant traffic and/or listening to noise when the squelch is opened due to extraneous RF. Since kayakers are such a small segment of the market, I doubt we are a consideration in the design of these radios.

Ed Lawson

[Brian Nystrom]

The volume/on-off knob progressively gets stiffer and stiffer to turn and it eventually freezes... I do wash it in the sink after each use. After it gets very stiff I soak the control in a product called “Salt-Off” which helps, but the stiffness returns in a few weeks.

Like it or not, that's just normal maintenance for any radio that's used without a bag. All I do with my radios (Icomm M88 and M1V) is rinse them in fresh water after use and when the knob(s) start to get stiff, I wet the area, turn the radio upside-down (so water won't work it's way past the seal) and work the knob back and forth until it moves freely. Sometimes, it takes rinsing the knob area two or three times to get rid of all of the salt buildup and return it to normal operation. It takes less time to do it than it's taken me to type this, so I don't consider it a burdensome chore.

If you want to reduce the salt buildup, you could try to work some liquid silicone into the area around the knob. If the knob is removable, take it off and apply a ring of silicone grease where the shaft meets the O-ring.

[leong]

Ed,

>>”Caveat: designing radios is not my day job.

Mine neither, but using them and knowing how they should work is my day job.”

>>”… but for kayakers having the line as low as possible is probably a good thing”

Yes

>>”If you are operating a tender in a mooring field or crew on a barge or large vessel it may not matter because you may normally run the squelch preset much higher to avoid hearing irrelevant traffic and/or listening to noise when the squelch is opened due to extraneous RF. Since kayakers are such a small segment of the market, I doubt we are a consideration in the design of these radios.”

A barge operator (or anyone) who doesn’t want to listen to “irrelevant” traffic that’s not a lot of dB’s above the noise level is free to choose a higher squelch level, like (the useless to me) levels 2 – 10! But what’s one to do when the lowest threshold is already so high that it squelch’s out weak signals that one wants to hear? Face the truth, Ed, the M72 VHF has the lowest squelch preset set too damn high. There’s no need to excuse a poor design for a device that’s primarily for safety. Let the barges use cell or satellite phones.

While I’m thinking about safety and stupid designs here’s another problem with the M72 (and probably many other VHF receivers). When the M72 is locked on a channel, the channel 16 button is inoperable. Oh, great, someone picks up the M72 in an emergency to call for help on channel 16. But the VHF is locked on to channel 72. So he presses the channel 16 button and nothing happens. He can’t remember or doesn’t know how to unlock it.

Leon

____________________________________________

Brian,

>>”Sometimes, it takes rinsing the knob area two or three times to get rid of all of the salt buildup and return it to normal operation. It takes less time to do it than it's taken me to type this, so I don't consider it a burdensome chore.”

Last night I spent about a half-hour freeing up the knob using “Salt-Away” (http://www.saltawayproducts.com/Products.htm) and fresh water. Ok, I only have to do that about once a week. But this morning (12 hours later) the knob was again so tight that I had to start over.

>>”If you want to reduce the salt buildup, you could try to work some liquid silicone into the area around the knob. If the knob is removable, take it off and apply a ring of silicone grease where the shaft meets the O-ring.”

Good idea, tomorrow to the hardware store I go.

Leon

____________________________________________________

Everyone,

Anyone else have the problem of a sticky volume/on-off knob on your VHF?

Leon

[EEL]

...... Face the truth, Ed, the M72 VHF has the lowest squelch preset set too damn high.....

Leon;

When it comes to VHF marine handhelds I'm more a Yaesu fan so its not like I am defending Icom. I thought I had said I agree with your assessment. Every design is a compromise and some won't like the compromises as they apply to how they want things to be.

VHF marine handhelds with squelch knobs exist and perhaps you would be happier with one.

Ed Lawson

[scamlin]

Actually, I've had the opposite problem: the volume control gets progressively looser, so it often turns on accidentally in my gear bag or PFD pocket. Had this problem a lot with my old Standard Horizon 406SX and now also my ICOM M88. This is after several years of use. After the 406SX died, I replaced it with a new M72, but not enough use to date to see if there is a problem.

Another problem with old VHFs is a noisy volume control: static when moved, and sometimes just sitting in place.

Like Leon, I never use a dry bag but always flush thoroughly in fresh water after each trip.

Scott

[djlewis]

Like it or not, that's just normal maintenance for any radio that's used without a bag. All I do with my radios (Icomm M88 and M1V) is rinse them in fresh water after use and when the knob(s) start to get stiff, I wet the area, turn the radio upside-down (so water won't work it's way past the seal) and work the knob back and forth until it moves freely. Sometimes, it takes rinsing the knob area two or three times to get rid of all of the salt buildup and return it to normal operation. It takes less time to do it than it's taken me to type this, so I don't consider it a burdensome chore.

Yup, same for me -- rinse it in fresh water (from the tap) -- drain it quickly and work the knob a bit -- repeat a couple of times -- stiff knob all fixed.

[leong]

Yup, same for me -- rinse it in fresh water (from the tap) -- drain it quickly and work the knob a bit -- repeat a couple of times -- stiff knob all fixed.

Yes, David, been there, done that. I guess it depends how corroded the stem is and how often the unit is used. Monday (two days ago) after paddling I noticed that the knob was stiff again and I had to use "Salt-Away" and fresh water to work it free. Got it as "smooth as silk". No paddling yesterday due to heavy rain. Then, today, the knob was so stiff that I had to use pliers to work it free.

I’m afraid that Ed might be right when he says “My experience is that once the knob becomes "sticky" it’s a lost cause. You can free it up, but the fix will always be temporary and it will just get worse in terms of how long it stays free and how hard it gets "stuck" “.

I haven’t yet tried the liquid silicone idea suggested by Brian. But it may be like “locking the barn after the horse is gone”.

Leon

[Bmach]

I always keep mine in a VHF dry bag and never need to take it out to use it. As for missing calls it might have something to do with you very low stance in the water and the cats higher stance.

[lhunt]

I think you get gradual salt buildup because flushing with fresh water just isn't enough. I noticed this with my waterproof camera - I would rinse it, then soak it for 10 minutes in warm water (per mfg. instructions) but if I looked closely after several uses it was still getting a white chalky buildup even after all that. Next step, corrosion and a new camera (fortunately under warranty). When it started happening on the new camera, I had to use a toothbrush and salt-away at first to get the buildup off, then I started just wetting it with salt-away every time and that seems to be holding it at bay. (Of course one has to be very very careful to keep salt-away off the clear lens cover).

The instructions on the salt-away specify to work it into every knob and button, so I do that, too, wetting the buttons and knobs then working them with the salt-away on them, then rinsing the whole thing, holding it under water and working the buttons there, too. I've been doing this to my radio, too (after Leon pointed out the problem), and so far so good. But of course I don't use it as much as he does.

Sounds like a lot of work, but once you get into the habit of it it only takes a few minutes.

-Lisa

[leong]

I think you get gradual salt buildup because flushing with fresh water just isn't enough. I noticed this with my waterproof camera - I would rinse it, then soak it for 10 minutes in warm water (per mfg. instructions) but if I looked closely after several uses it was still getting a white chalky buildup even after all that. Next step, corrosion and a new camera (fortunately under warranty). When it started happening on the new camera, I had to use a toothbrush and salt-away at first to get the buildup off, then I started just wetting it with salt-away every time and that seems to be holding it at bay. (Of course one has to be very very careful to keep salt-away off the clear lens cover).

The instructions on the salt-away specify to work it into every knob and button, so I do that, too, wetting the buttons and knobs then working them with the salt-away on them, then rinsing the whole thing, holding it under water and working the buttons there, too. I've been doing this to my radio, too (after Leon pointed out the problem), and so far so good. But of course I don't use it as much as he does.

Sounds like a lot of work, but once you get into the habit of it it only takes a few minutes.

-Lisa

Yes, when told about my VHF problem, my dentist recommended regular flossing as well; also to bring it in twice a year for a complete cleaning by the hygienist.

Seriously though, after getting the volume knob to work as smooth as silk, it gets stuck again in a day or two, even if it wasn't taken out of the house.

Leon

[lhunt]

Yes, when told about my VHF problem, my dentist recommended regular flossing as well; also to bring it in twice a year for a complete cleaning by the hygienist.

Ha! Yes, exactly right.

Seriously though, after getting the volume knob to work as smooth as silk, it gets stuck again in a day or two, even if it wasn't taken out of the house.

I know, I was thinking about your hypothetical new one.

[leong]

Ha! Yes, exactly right.

I know, I was thinking about your hypothetical new one.

Epilogue

Today before going out to paddle I had to use a pair of pliers to turn on my VHF. Between multiple rinsing and brushing on of Salt-Away, I’ve spent more time in the last few weeks than any stupid electronic device is worth it. So I gave up and drove to West Marine in Juno Beach, FL to exchange my VHF for a new one. The old unit was a little over a year old. The exchange was free and immediate because I have the two-year “PLUS Product Protection Plan” which costs about $30 including tax. This is the only extra warrantee plan that I ever buy for any product. This plan is well worth it for me because I go through VHFs at a rate of about once per 18 months. Thus, it cost me an average of about $20/year to insure my VHF so that I can immediately exchange it for a new one for any failure. Yes, I renewed the PLUS plan for the new unit.

PS

I spoke to the store manager to describe two deficient design anomalies of the Icom M72: 1. The set of 9 squelch levels are set too high (at least the first squelch level is) and 2. The emergency channel 16 button is designed to be inoperable whenever the unit is locked on another channel. The store manager agreed that these two features were poorly designed.

PPS

What size toothbrush and floss should I use on my new unit? Salt-Away doesn't contain any fluoride. Should I brush with a fluoride containing toothpaste as well?

[ThomasL]

Yeah, yeah, I know, many of you think the ICOM M72 is the best handheld VHF. Heck, I’ve been using this model for about 6 years. I think that it’s a great VHF too, except for the following two complaints.

1. The volume/on-off knob progressively gets stiffer and stiffer to turn and it eventually freezes. Yes, I use it almost everyday all year long without putting it in a vhf drybag (I want it ready for use and I want nothing between me and the controls and speaker/microphone). But it usually doesn’t get wet unless I’m out in heavy conditions. I put it inside a drybag for practice rolls. I do wash it in the sink after each use. After it gets very stiff I soak the control in a product called “Salt-Off” which helps, but the stiffness returns in a few weeks.

Anyone else have this problem?

2. The ICOM M72 squelch has 11 discrete squelch levels: one open, i.e. OP, which turns the squelch off; and 10 levels from loose squelch (1) to tight squelch (10). However, in reality there are only two relevant levels: (OP) and the lowest level, (1). Squelch level 1 always mutes the audio when there is no signal present but, sometimes, also mutes weak signals. The usual operation of a squelch would be to adjust the control until the audio just shuts off - then only a small threshold signal is needed to turn on the audio. I’ve never encountered the situation where a weak signal was annoying, so that I’ve never needed to raise the squelch level above 1. However, I have noticed that squelch level 1 does mute out weak signals that I do want to hear, such as Mayday calls. Therefore the other 9 squelch levels are useless. Although this second problem is minor compared to the first one (and was posted earlier), I’m still looking for a reasonable answer. I’d like to lower the threshold levels of the set of 10 squelch levels so that a level above 1 is the first level that first shuts the audio off. A call to Icom resulted in the usual answers of: look in the manual, our VHF meets all industry standards, blah, blah, blah ….

How about the tiny ICOM88? (I'm looking.) Looks cute...does it stand up?

[leong]

How about the tiny ICOM88? (I'm looking.) Looks cute...does it stand up?

I don't know. When you factor in the extra long antenna on the M88 model it takes up about as much real estate as the M72 model. Also, the M72 model has a better battery, more transmitter power (probably of no real consequence) and higher water proof rating.

With regard to the sticky volume control problem it's probably a case of over use (I use it almost every day all year long). It seems like I'm in the minority with this problem.

Leon

[jason]

I don't know. When you factor in the extra long antenna on the M88 model it takes up about as much real estate as the M72 model. Also, the M72 model has a better battery, more transmitter power (probably of no real consequence) and higher water proof rating.

With regard to the sticky volume control problem it's probably a case of over use (I use it almost every day all year long). It seems like I'm in the minority with this problem.

Leon

The M88 and the M72 take about the same total volume as the M88 is fatter. I love my M72.

That said if I was to get another radio I might hold off and get one of the DSC/GPS radios as they are just starting to hit the market:

http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/marine/handhelds/m92d/default.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Selective_Calling

-Jason

[EEL]

That said if I was to get another radio I might hold off and get one of the DSC/GPS radios as they are just starting to hit the market:

Excellent advice from Jason. The DSC abilities are the way of the future. For awhile they will be expensive, but that will change.

On the whole waterproof rating thing. It is important to keep in mind none of the ratings mean the radio is waterproof in an absolute sense. It just means that under the test conditions of the standard water intrusion will not occur to the extent it will cause harmful effects. That does not mean the cumulative effects over time might not be harmful if ignored which is why Brian, I assume, emphasizes good PM.

As to the standards themselves, higher numbers to not necessarily mean better protection against water intrusion. Also, a radio can be certified as meeting more than one standard. A radio could be rated IPX6/8. The IPX6 is a standard for protection against being blasted by heavy seas. It is a rigorous standard which requires the equipment to survive being subjected to powerful jets of water and, in my opinion, the standard important for kayakers. It is not an easy standard to meet or to certify which is why I know of no consumer grade radio being listed as IPX6. IPX7 is a static test where the equipment is submerged to a depth of 1M for 30 Min. Notice there is no movement of the equipment during the test. IPX8 is not a specific standard. It only means the equipment has been tested to exceed the IPX7 standard as to depth and/or time to the extent specified by the manufacturer. Notice that Icom and Standard define IPX8 as 1.5M for 30Min which is only slightly greater than the IPX7 standard.

In the more than you may care to know category, when a radio is listed as IPXwhatever it can mean one of three things: the radio has been designed to be compatible with the standard, the radio was tested at some point and shown to be IPXwhatever compliant, or the radio manufacturer certifies the radio meets the IPX whatever standard. Also, unless there is a letter M with the IP rating, no assumptions can be made as to what effect operating the equipment while in the test environment will have on water intrusion. It might not matter or it might be much worse. If you wondered about the X, it is a place marker if the equipment is not rated against intrusion by solids such as dust.

Since the manufacturers will replace a radio for free if it fails in the first three years for any reason, the above might be academic. On the other hand what good is a warranty when the gear fails in conditions where failure can have dire consequences?

Ed Lawson