Cold Water Workshop - Under The Drysuit

[Suz]

Cold water workshop takes place on Sunday. In order for participants to be prepared and to shed some light on what other do, could you post what you wear under your drysuit?

In order to figure out what to wear, it is sometimes easier to rule a few things out first.

My first rule is no cotton, not even a wee little bit including no cotton undies, or bras. I have a mix of things that I choose from depending on the temperature. I avoid turtlenecks that can sometimes wick water down through the gasket. Also avoid things with zippers as they can nick the gaskets. I never wear things that are bulky or with elastic in the cuffs/waistband. That adds unnecessary bulk to restrict rotation and the elastics are usually made of nylon and nylon holds water

Warmer temperatures - both air and water. Choose lightweight wool leggings and a thin wool top.

Layer that up as needed with a lightweight synthetic top or a heavier weight wool crew. The goal is to add smooth fitting layers that don't constrict/ bind when worn together.

When too cold for my thin wool leggings, I switch to thicker ones - Smartwool Midweight. If too cold for those, I switch to a thick fleece legging. I found for me, one layer on my legs works well. Two is too bulky. So for me I switch to a heavier layer rather than multiples. I do the same on top - no more than two layers but just move up to thicker ones.

In winter, I wear my warm layers to the launch and then immediately dress in my drysuit to keep warm. I bring a bag in the car with a few options in case I find the weather is different than I predicted from home.

A word about wool - some people love it under a drysuit and others don't. I find wool is very comfortable but people who are "sweaty" (you know who you are!!), usually find that wool makes them cold after they stop moving. The reason why is that wool alone doesn't wick, it holds water and that water sitting on your body makes you cold as it cools off. You can help to prevent this by wearing a synthetic over top of the wool or a thin Capilene style under the wool. Both ways help. The really nice thing about wool though is that it doesn't stink like the synthetics do. You can and I do, wear the same wool for a week w/o problems.

Kokatat in January is going to be first to market with a wool/synthetic blend. The blend will allow the product to wick and should also help with the durability as wool is very fragile when wet. I haven't yet been able to try it but plan to as soon as I don't need new samples to show my dealers!

For a really great easy to understand online article about the art of layering, please take a look at:

http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/dress+layers.html (all info applies until you get to the shell area. Outer shells options are more limited for paddling and the goal is to find a breathable durable shell garment.

In closing, what works for me, might not work for you. Hopefully others will chime in with what they do.

Suz

[bob budd]

Flat seams or turn your garments inside out, a trick Liz uses.

Exterior layering while paddling such as a paddling jacket may be useful.

Your PFD will increase your insulation and block alot of the wicking of your suit. Putting your body in the cockpit further blocks wicking and can also add warmth. The point is that getting out of the boat and/or taking off your PFD can chill you. Something to wear for extended breaks may be in order.

[Suz]

Flat seams or turn your garments inside out, a trick Liz uses.

Only problem with turning inside out is that with the newer technical garments the material is directional and turning it inside out puts the exterior of the fabric next to the skin and then it doesn't wick properly. Best to buy the products with the flat seams to begin with.

[bbjorn]

During last weekend's wild weather. a bunch of us were out paddling off Stonington Ct. at the Autumn Gales symposium (certainly lived up to the name!). Just about everyone but me had a hooded storm cag (cagoule) that fit over everything including pfd and cockpit coaming. Whenever we stopped for a break and ducked into the scrub for shelter from the gusty wind, they would sit or squat with their cags providing a tent-like shelter, apparently quite comfortable. Some of them used a cag only during breaks and stowed it in their day hatch while paddling. Others kept it on while paddling. I decided right then and there that a cag will be my next purchase.

Blaine

[bbjorn]

Just noticed the topic title. That was a bit off-topic since it's OVER the drysuit.

[...]

I have been happy wearing wool (Ibex) layers under my dry suit. I have two upper and two lower which I adjust to existing conditions. I also like having my storm cag handy during lunch breaks and also to wear during nasty days.

Blaine, during a nasty day on Knubble Bay this past summer the storm cag came out of my day hatch and kept me dry and happy. (Definitely go for the Gore-Tex version.) Supprisingly, among the 15+ paddlers that day, I was the only paddler with one. I never paddle without it in the day hatch.

Warren

[pikabike]

I love turtlenecks and (so far) haven't had problems with them being too high, interfering with the gasket fit. I just make sure that the fabric is wholly inside the gasket, not layered at the gasket top. But if the extra height of a turtleneck does cause trouble, mock turtlenecks will work fine. The Mysterioso dense fleece-inner shirt has a mock T neck, and I like this dense-plush fleece better than the standard kinds. (That's Mysterioso, NOT NRS Mystery shirt which is a rubberized fleece.)

SmartWool midweight wool longjohn top and bottom also are comfortable and warm. In addition to being less stinky than synthetics, wool has a huge temperature range (comfort) for a given weight. Plus even though it takes longer to dry than synthetics, it still holds warmth even if damp. Those resilient wool fibers seem to have a lot of spring in them and they don't get as smashed down when wet (which lowers insulation value).

The garment I found to have the fastest wicking ability of all is Craft's ribbed underwear. They now make all kinds of knits; the one I'm talking about is the original lightweight ribknit that came in form-fitting, stretchy shirts and long undies. Might be polypropylene. It is hydrophobic; you can tell this when hand-washing it.

I've used a poncho thrown over all at breaks to cut wind chill. Just bought a storm cag to gain better protection with sleeves, plus huge multiple pockets. Plus it can actually be worn while paddling, attached to the coaming.

Bike shorts or similar underneath the longjohns add a surprising amount of warmth. Would be nice to have a bike-short-design made of polypro but with a horizontal fly opening so that using the lowered front relief zip would be easy with it. As it stands now, I have to pull down the waistbands of shorts and longjohns. Another woman who likes the lowered men's relief zip told me she uses men's longjohns for this reason. (I do love the lowered front relief zip!)

[Deb Millar]

In late fall/early spring, I wear a Capilene top under my fleece "onesie" which is sized and made by the same maker as my drysuit. I ALWAYS wear Smart Wool or the equivalent socks; the weight can vary with the season, but I've found that mid-weight works just as well at keeping my feet warm as a heavier sock.

As it gets colder, I'll wear a heavier top, either Capilene (I'm a big fan of Patagonia)or Smart Wool, plus woolen or heavyweight bottoms.

Under-underwear is Capilene and an all-synthetic sports bra.

I always wear a hat -- all wool (I love Dale of Norway ski hats although I found that Turtle Fur makes a really nice equivalent (and it's also considerably less money; KTP carries this brand) and fleece lined to block the wind -- and, on really cold days, I'll add a neoprene fleece-lined hood that covers my ears, neck and provides an extra layer of insulation.

NRS (or an equivalent brand)Pogies -- I can't stand wearing gloves as I don't like not being able to feel my paddle -- but I also sometimes wear Toaster Mitts by NRS. If it's not too cold, I can get away with Tropos pogies, which work very well at keeping off the wind. I always have a dry bag with extra fleece and socks and, in my day hatch, another one with my Valley/Seals cag, an extra hat and wool mittens.

I really recommend a onesie as it doesn't ride or bunch up around your waist or leave the dreaded gap. Ours are seven years old and going strong.

In the hope of keeping gear around and not shrinking, all our fleece, wool socks and tops/bottoms, synthetic underwear, and even our pool clothes are washed on the gentle cycle and in ProWash, which is sold at REI. It's expensive but you use only a little bit so it lasts awhile and it definitely gets out that "athletic" odor. I then dry every thing either on the line or on racks.

Deb M.

[Doug]

Don't Forget!

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME

Sunday early morning on the 6th...

clocks fall back from 1:59 a.m. to 1:00 a.m

Doug

[JohnHuth]

It depends on the air and water temperature.

Lightest, I'll wear either polypro or capilene long underwear. Colder, I have some polartec fleece pants and pullover.

I find the biggest problem is when I stop for a break. I'll often get hot and sweaty under my drysuit while paddling, and when I stop for lunch, a cold wind will carry away my body heat. For this, I carry a second pull-over and a normal cold-weather shell in a dry bag. When I pull up, I'll take the upper part of the dry top off down to my waist and then try to towel off and shift into my 'land' clothes for the break.

I'll also carry a second set up upper body wicking garments for the afternoon portion of the paddle.

Getting one of those 'instant tents' is also a good idea, as you can change inside them without getting too much chill.

[ThomasL]

It depends on the air and water temperature.

Lightest, I'll wear either polypro or capilene long underwear. Colder, I have some polartec fleece pants and pullover.

I find the biggest problem is when I stop for a break. I'll often get hot and sweaty under my drysuit while paddling, and when I stop for lunch, a cold wind will carry away my body heat. For this, I carry a second pull-over and a normal cold-weather shell in a dry bag. When I pull up, I'll take the upper part of the dry top off down to my waist and then try to towel off and shift into my 'land' clothes for the break.

I'll also carry a second set up upper body wicking garments for the afternoon portion of the paddle.

Getting one of those 'instant tents' is also a good idea, as you can change inside them without getting too much chill.

As a "newbie" I can't tell all of you folks how informative the info you provide in this forum is! Thanks to you I got the boat that suits me, suitable additional safety gear, a dry suit, fleece undergarments, etc. As a "somewhat senior" I'm not sure the cold weather equipment will see use very soon, but your insights in this topic have further clarified my direction as to gloves, headgear, etc. After 40+ years on the water in warm conditions,and some years in the military, I am not inclined to get too involved in the somewhat regimented atmosphere surrounding NSP, but very much enjoy and appreciate the knowledge of your experience.

Thanks,

Tom

[Gcosloy]

"After 40+ years on the water in warm conditions,and some years in the military, I am not inclined to get too involved in the somewhat regimented atmosphere surrounding NSP, but very much enjoy and appreciate the knowledge of your experience."

Tom,

I can assure you that the experience on the water with the NSPN folks is quite different from the atmosphere you intuit from these posts. Come out for a few paddles in the Spring and see the difference.

[Katherine]

Gene,

This thread is from a year ago - it was re-posted :-)