Experience with bivy sacks?

[JohnHuth]

I own a bivy sack but haven't actually used it. I have gone on some trips where I've packed it along for a "just in case" grounding, along with some extra food, a lightweight stove.

Can anyone who has actually stayed overnight in one give me any recommendations?

I'd normally carry a lightweight compact tent when camping, but since I have this as a backup for a longish day trip, I thought I'd ask. I'll probably do an overnight somewhere just to test out the logistics.

Thanks!

[Phil Allen]

John- I've done some ultralight backpacking with them years ago. I found them pretty miserable if that's all you had for shelter. If you can pair the bivy with a small tarp so that you could keep your head out of the bag they weren't bad. Now I carry a really lightweight one that packs about as small as my fist. Not likely to hold up to heavy use, but that's not the point.

Phil

[JohnHuth]

Phil -

That's what I was thinking - a lightweight tarp and some lines and lightweight stakes might make for a decent shelter. Certainly enough to cover the head and torso. If it's raining, you can still cook something under the tarp with a small stove.

[bob budd]

Dee has a lightweight screen tent that she has used for extended trips that takes up very little space. With the tarp over it you can avoid the rain and still get wonderful air and moonlight. She has worked out a system using minimal poles, i.e. paddles and the like, so its overall footprint is very small. As for the stove, upon a suggestion from Mr. Casey I have found that you can go without stove and fuel issues for several days with dried stuff, cheese, and the like further reducing your pack volume and weight.

[gyork]

I own a bivy sack but haven't actually used it. Can anyone who has actually stayed overnight in one give me any recommendations?

Thanks!

This past weekend on the Jewell trip, my first night was in an uncomfortable hammock, hung below a sil-nylon OES tarp (11oz). Nite 2 I went to ground, and employed a tent footprint (ground cloth), same air pad, and a borrowed (thanks Judy) bivy-sortathing (think nylon liner, but external). With rain/fog forecast for the overnight, I hoped my bag would stay dry, and it did. In the shoulder seasons of Apr-May and Sept-Oct, I am happy to NOT pack a tent, as the bug situation (mostly) goes away. I own a goretex bivy that allows a small dome-shaped, pole-supported space near the head region, but is very claustrophobic as a stand-alone shelter. It works great paired with the tarp, and ensures my bags, one of which is down, stay dry. Might it add a degreeF of warmth? Who knows. During bug season, I pack my one-person MSR Hubba (fly included), and ALWAYS at least one tarp that can serve as kitchen/LR/etc. if weather comes in.

[brambor]

Right on. Think rain protection and bug protection.

Bivy alone - not so good

Bivy + tarp = great without bugs

Tarp plus ground tarp great without bugs (no good with bugs)

Tent = great with bugs, good without bugs

My tent packs about as small as my tarp.

This past weekend on the Jewell trip, my first night was in an uncomfortable hammock, hung below a sil-nylon OES tarp (11oz). Nite 2 I went to ground, and employed a tent footprint (ground cloth), same air pad, and a borrowed (thanks Judy) bivy-sortathing (think nylon liner, but external). With rain/fog forecast for the overnight, I hoped my bag would stay dry, and it did. In the shoulder seasons of Apr-May and Sept-Oct, I am happy to NOT pack a tent, as the bug situation (mostly) goes away. I own a goretex bivy that allows a small dome-shaped, pole-supported space near the head region, but is very claustrophobic as a stand-alone shelter. It works great paired with the tarp, and ensures my bags, one of which is down, stay dry. Might it add a degreeF of warmth? Who knows. During bug season, I pack my one-person MSR Hubba (fly included), and ALWAYS at least one tarp that can serve as kitchen/LR/etc. if weather comes in.

[spider]

I use a bivy bag quite a bit now for a number of years. What I like about them is they are a four season shelter that you can use in any configuration... literally sitting up if need be.

I do think my wife would prefer me not always referring to it as my Body Bag.

When sleeping in the rain it is an odd sensation feeling the rain drops pelting you but staying dry.

I have used it plenty when a thunder storm or heavy rain comes up and you want an instant shelter to jump into.

I have used it as emergency shelter on wet sand but I"ll say it's one of the least desirable of conditions that I have encountered so far.

Mine is also a Gortex type made by Climb High. I think the inside of most any bivy will get wet when getting in or out of them. Wheter it is a top loader or one with a side zip. That is when they are the most vulnerable to the elements, muddy shoes, wet clothing etc. Snow is not so bad because it sweeps out pretty easily when in the winter or caught in an early snowstorm.

When I increased my kayak camping I also upgraded our sleeping bags to "waterproof" versions. That has worked out nicely.

Sometimes making camp I might set up the tent and make camp one place but actually use the bag to sleep elsewhere nearby.

Though I always preferred a liquid gas stove...these days I find myself using the Jet Boil stove. I like having a quick stove capability. There are times that even a quick cup of hot water willl do wonders to warm you up on a raw day.

Nice to have a bivy with a fine mesh , but the mesh does make you plenty warm, a bit much on a muggy night.

[jeffcasey]

you can get a hammock with rain fly and bug screen built in -- we used them in the keys. links here: http://hennessyhammock.com/catalog/#hammock

i've used bivvy sacks in a variety of occasions. just like you surmised, they are a lot better if you combine with a tiny tarp to keep your head dry...imagination is the key to setting up well for this, but the usual help from trees/rocks/etc can improve the layout.

i used to like my little walrus 1-man micro-tent...a present from my wife. it was slightly better than a bivvy, still 1-man, but with tiny poles to lift it a bit off the bag. can't sit up in it, but you aren't sleeping in a plastic bag. i've survived downpours in this just fine, but getting in and out of it during a downpour is an art. walrus is gone now...bought out by MSR by all accounts, but i don't see the equivalent in the MSR online catalog now. i pretty much stopped carrying it when i got an REI quarter dome T1 with my dividend years ago...it is a real tent, 1-man (two in a pinch but it will be intimate), with bug netting for the upper, and a good fly sheet. it is a hair bulkier than the walrus, but about the same weight...so the justification for the walrus disappeared. the quarter dome is a very nice compromise, you can sit up in it, etc etc. i still use this a lot, and always take it for solo protection if rain is likely or certain...i only do the bivvy thing (or nothing) if the outlook is pretty dry.

an ancient buddy has a long-discontinued chouinard pyramid -- an excellent design. it is eight triangles of material sewed into a pyramid, taking one pole in the middle. set it high to hold off the dew, set it right on the ground to hold off a driven rain. room for two. long ago (decades?) i tried to make one just like it, and ended up with nothing but huge amounts of material and folds, no volume. i guess you sorta have to get the catenaries right. last month, a reunion with this old friend in central utah was both a good time, and (when he brought the old thing) a chance to make detailed measurements on it. with the modern ultra-light coated nylons and the good measurements, i'm going to try again, but haven't yet. i can keep you posted if you want. there is a good discussion of some similar things available now on the web: http://www.larsonweb.com/shelter/id5.html this seems like the ideal for my desert hiking, but may not be so hot for island camping here in new england where bugs are an issue.

and yes, as Bob said, I rarely take a stove for less than a few days or very cold weather. you can really do fine with a block of cheese, gatorade, nuts, fruit, fig newtons...etc. who needs stew? i started looking more dubiously at prepared backpacking meals when i started carrying a bear barrel -- trying to reduce volume got me looking up caloric content, and those "efficient" meals are not much better than cereal or mac&cheese. a block of hard cheese (i.e. parmesan) is unsurpassed -- other than by straight olive oil -- for calories per cc. I also find that I enjoy the gestalt of not cooking. the whole cooking thing sort of removes your focus from where you are, which doesn't happen if you just dip your hand into your snack bag while staring at the sunset.

[spider]

I thought this link showed a great way to set up tarp

I often wonder if I'm getting my best use when setting up a tarp. For me it was something I hadn't thought of. I am lucky I can set t things up here ,a big believer in practicing stuff at home if given half a chance. I'll be trying his method, cept his doesn't address netting.

I notice he mentions a name brand, I'm not familar with the name of it , so...It's the set up I like, I'm not recommending their company or anything like that.

[Phil Allen]

....

an ancient buddy has a long-discontinued chouinard pyramid -- an excellent design. .....

I believe it's current incarnation is the Black Diamond Mega-light

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/shelters/mega-light-tent

But it's a big shelter; 3-4 people in the winter with a snowpit.

Phil

[EEL]

I believe it's current incarnation is the Black Diamond Mega-light

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/shelters/mega-light-tent

Bad enough it is dreary. Now I'm confronted with just how much of an antique I am.

Every time I hear something about that tent, all I can think of is "They are asking how much for a McKinley rain-fly?"

Back in the 70's, REI sold a tent called the McKinley which was a big honking pyramid mountaineering tent.

http://www.pbase.com/image/132246927

To save weight, people starting carrying only the rain fly since it got the job done summer and winter. Fast forward more than a few years as in decades and Yvon's company started selling an updated McKinley fly and everyone thinks it is this great new idea. It was then and is now a great shelter, but it was not a great new idea by Yvon.

To me a bivy sack is a bag, literally, carried by timid folks for the unexpected night out or by the bold for the expected night out that enables them to spent a night on some ledge with enough protection so they have enough mind and body left the next day get to the top. Talk about miserable.

Personally a big, big fan of tarps. Decent ones with adequate ties for maximum flexibility are getting hard to find.

Ed Lawson

Who still has this catalog which was mailed to him by GPIW.

http://www.frostworksclimbing.com/gpiw72.html

[jeffcasey]

"Decent ones with adequate ties for maximum flexibility are getting are to find."

that I can help with....

there used to be something that Colin Fletcher called "Visklamps", which were rubber balls and little metal

figure 8 hoops, which you'd use to tie a line anywhere to a tarp. Once in awhile you can find them in the odd

catalog (I'm sure somebody will throw a link up here), sold under a different name.

you can often find functional equivalents, usually plastic. such as:

http://www.tarps-tarps.com/tarp-accessories/super-snap-grommets-4-pack/prod_594.html

with a small handful of these, a light tarp with no grommet holes at all is easiest and lightest.

[Phil Allen]

"Decent ones with adequate ties for maximum flexibility are getting are to find."

that I can help with....

there used to be something that Colin Fletcher called "Visklamps", which were rubber balls and little metal

figure 8 hoops, which you'd use to tie a line anywhere to a tarp. Once in awhile you can find them in the odd

catalog (I'm sure somebody will throw a link up here), sold under a different name.

you can often find functional equivalents, usually plastic. such as:

http://www.tarps-tarps.com/tarp-accessories/super-snap-grommets-4-pack/prod_594.html

with a small handful of these, a light tarp with no grommet holes at all is easiest and lightest.

or even easier, grab some quarter to half dollar size pebbles, gather the tarp around a pebbble at the tie point and tie a clove hitch around the "neck" under the pebble. Allows you to put a tie out point any place you want. Also works well for tent tarps that don't have extra guy lines to deal with high winds.

Phil

[Michael_Crouse]

As was mentioned lots of companies are making pyramid type shelters, Black Diamond, Go-Lite, etc... the Go-Lite version is nice because it has a loop at the top so you can hang it, this means no pole in the middle of the shelter. You can also get mosquito netting and a floor for it, or leave those bits at home and go very light.

I have a WInd Wedge floorless shelter, just in case we're having an old weird gear comparison contest Sadly I never got a walrus trekker tarp , a sil nylon version of one would be amazing.

Thanks for the tarp pitching video!

A nice trick for pitching a tent or tarp on a rocky surface is to tie off the guy lines to a rock, then put another rock on top of the guy line against the first rock. It will actually hold in in place and the rocks wont move.

[Rob Hazard]

Here I was all set to run right out to REI and buy a bivy and you guys have talked me out of it! A cheap tarp, some parachute cord, a few pebbles, and I'm set for the night!

[Pintail]

By the way, proper Goretex bivy-bags may be found (quite regularly) on eBay for silly money, compared with the retail price of most -- you don't mind military camouflage, do you?

If you intend sleeping under a tarp, then at least the bag will be a protection for your sleeping bag...

As for tarps, the cheapest solution is to make your own from silicon-impregnated nylon (isn't it, Suzanne?)

[JohnHuth]

You can definitely get yards of ripstop nylon online and grommets for cheap, if you're willing to sew. The problem is that sewing ripstop nylon is a real bear. One of these years, I'll get a sewing machine that's up to the job, but for now, I'll buy the tarp.

[Dabend]

I own a bivy sack but haven't actually used it. I have gone on some trips where I've packed it along for a "just in case" grounding, along with some extra food, a lightweight stove. Can anyone who has actually stayed overnight in one give me any recommendations? I'd normally carry a lightweight compact tent when camping, but since I have this as a backup for a longish day trip, I thought I'd ask. I'll probably do an overnight somewhere just to test out the logistics. Thanks!

I have a many years of experience using a bivy sack. The bottom line is that I love them. One of the main reasons I love the bivy is that feeling of sleeping outside looking up at the stars is unmatched. And when the wind is blowing on an island bluff, you unzip the bug screen and it is heavenly. Even when the clouds come in, the air on your face is something you don't get in a tent. And when it rains, I even love the sound of the rain on the bivy -- if your bivy is a good one, there's a feeling of imperviousness. I love being able to sleep right out in the open often where a tent cannot be set up either because there is not enough room or earth to stake it. Although I did start off using a tarp on nights that I suspected rain, I soon learned that it was like putting a waterproof gear bag inside a leaky one...why bother. Instead, I set up a tarp away from my bivy (usually in the protection of trees) and that is where I store my gear. Overall, I think having a bivy requires: -Getting a good one. Do not skimp on waterproofing and breathability. I have an Intergral Designs UniShelter and it repels water like a duck and rarely sweats. -Get headroom. My first bivy was a second hand one and it had no way to keep the material off your head when zipped up in the rain. While I never felt claustrophobic, it just wasn't fun or comfortable. The Unishelter also has a vent in the top that helps keep things dry. -A change of attitude. If you get a bivy and then do everything you can to make it a tent, you're missing the point. Once I stopped worrying about getting a little wet on the way from the bivy to my tarp. It really was just a cost/benefit analysis for me. The joys of sleeping in the bivy outweighed the negative. -Get a system. It took me a few trips but after a while, I figured out a pretty good system so that I never got surprised by anything. I keep a drybag for my boots (I camp mostly in the fall) next to me, outside the bivy. I put my clothes inside my pillow case so they are ready to go in the morning. I always keep a poncho in the bivy. I have a night bag with everything I could possibly need that I always put behind my head and can access quickly (such as headlamp, ipod etc). You might be surprised how much you can actually fit in a bivy if you want to. I have attached a photo of a campsite I was at on an island off the coast of Maine. You can see where I set up the bivy on the rock and then the tarp over by the rocks. It rained all night and into the morning before stopping just before I took this picture. The other photo is on a tent platform in Muscongus bay with the 30 knot winds making the bivy look occupied.

[Dabend]

I own a bivy sack but haven't actually used it. I have gone on some trips where I've packed it along for a "just in case" grounding, along with some extra food, a lightweight stove. Can anyone who has actually stayed overnight in one give me any recommendations? I'd normally carry a lightweight compact tent when camping, but since I have this as a backup for a longish day trip, I thought I'd ask. I'll probably do an overnight somewhere just to test out the logistics. Thanks!

I have a many years of experience using a bivy sack. The bottom line is that I love them. One of the main reasons I love the bivy is that feeling of sleeping outside looking up at the stars is unmatched. And when the wind is blowing on an island bluff, you unzip the bug screen and it is heavenly. Even when the clouds come in, the air on your face is something you don't get in a tent. And when it rains, I even love the sound of the rain on the bivy -- if your bivy is a good one, there's a feeling of imperviousness. I love being able to sleep right out in the open often where a tent cannot be set up either because there is not enough room or earth to stake it. Although I did start off using a tarp on nights that I suspected rain, I soon learned that it was like putting a waterproof gear bag inside a leaky one...why bother. Instead, I set up a tarp away from my bivy (usually in the protection of trees) and that is where I store my gear. Overall, I think having a bivy requires: -Getting a good one. Do not skimp on waterproofing and breathability. I have an Intergral Designs UniShelter and it repels water like a duck and rarely sweats. -Get headroom. My first bivy was a second hand one and it had no way to keep the material off your head when zipped up in the rain. While I never felt claustrophobic, it just wasn't fun or comfortable. The Unishelter also has a vent in the top that helps keep things dry. -A change of attitude. If you get a bivy and then do everything you can to make it a tent, you're missing the point. Once I stopped worrying about getting a little wet on the way from the bivy to my tarp. It really was just a cost/benefit analysis for me. The joys of sleeping in the bivy outweighed the negative. -Get a system. It took me a few trips but after a while, I figured out a pretty good system so that I never got surprised by anything. I keep a drybag for my boots (I camp mostly in the fall) next to me, outside the bivy. I put my clothes inside my pillow case so they are ready to go in the morning. I always keep a poncho in the bivy. I have a night bag with everything I could possibly need that I always put behind my head and can access quickly (such as headlamp, ipod etc). You might be surprised how much you can actually fit in a bivy if you want to. I have attached a photo of a campsite I was at on an island off the coast of Maine. You can see where I set up the bivy on the rock and then the tarp over by the rocks. It rained all night and into the morning before stopping just before I took this picture. The other photo is on a tent platform in Muscongus bay with the 30 knot winds making the bivy look occupied.