Gcosloy Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 SMSKN has a trip to the Shoals scheduled for July 5th. We can either join them as guests or plan our own trip. I'm happy to initiate but would like some input on planning and navigation. Post here if interested. This will be a Level 3, 6.25 mile open water crossing from Rye Harbor State Marina. Too early to forecast conditions accurately. Trip will be a go only if conditions stay within Level 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 This will be a Level 3, 6.25 mile open water crossing from Rye Harbor State Marina. ..... Trip will be a go only if conditions stay within Level 3. Once again the trip level issue. I believe by definition going to Isle of Shoals constitutes a level 4 trip. You may, by God's grace, have a day where the sea state would be within Level 3 all day, but I doubt that makes it a level 3 trip. Note it is rated as a "difficult" trip in the SMSKN trip announcement which is roughly within the definition of a Level 4 trip although the trip levels as used do not correlate well. Personally I think that accurately describes what a participant should be prepared for when setting out on this particular trip even if the marine forecast suggests no wind and flat water. Ed Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 Once again the trip level issue. I believe by definition going to Isle of Shoals constitutes a level 4 trip. You may, by God's grace, have a day where the sea state would be within Level 3 all day, but I doubt that makes it a level 3 trip. Note it is rated as a "difficult" trip in the SMSKN trip announcement which is roughly within the definition of a Level 4 trip although the trip levels as used do not correlate well. Personally I think that accurately describes what a participant should be prepared for when setting out on this particular trip even if the marine forecast suggests no wind and flat water. Ed Lawson As Ed points out this could NEVER be a L3 trip as the definition of a L3 trip is "Paddling may involve limited exposure to open ocean with access to sheltered water or landing near at hand (less than one mile)." Heading out to the Isle of Shoals the sea might look flat but you can't count on things not to change. The norm is for the wind to pickup in time for the return to be a slog, making the trip out to be flat. It's a committing trip and shouldn't be entered into lightly. -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 For the sake of agreement this putative trip is re-designated as a Level 4. However I can state with assurance that some of the NSPN descriptions of Level 4 will not apply. Distance will not be 20+ miles and neither will pace be 4 knots. I agree fully with the statement that planning should include the worst case. What about current? Is there any to contend with in this crossing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 I have first hand experience of a nice sunny easy day turning into a small craft advisory, 25-27kt winds, STEEP choppy waves and a very nervous Coast Guard. ...and there is no quick exit for shelter. It is no place for someone who isn't ready to deal with some L4 conditions because you may have to deal with them even if the morning conditions and forecast looked pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 For the sake of agreement this putative trip is re-designated as a Level 4. However I can state with assurance that some of the NSPN descriptions of Level 4 will not apply. Distance will not be 20+ miles and neither will pace be 4 knots. I agree fully with the statement that planning should include the worst case. What about current? Is there any to contend with in this crossing? It doesn't seem that you understand how the trip levels work. If ANY element of the trip is at the higher level the trip is at the higher level. That said what I think that it's a VERY bad idea attempting to down play a trip to the Isle of Shoals you don't have any good bail outs if things go baddly. It is not a like a trip around Cape Ann where you have numerous of bail outs. You can't get someone off the water in a timely manner, if they get sea sick, exhausted, hurt a shoulder, can't deal with the conditions etc. You would be much better off taking a L3 paddler that's looking to move their skills up to L4 on a trip around Cape Ann or playing in the surf and currents at Popham or the like as you have outs. If you head out to the Isle of Shoals you better be able to paddle 20+ miles in a day at a 4+ knot pace, as you will need to be able to do that when the wind picks up on your return. -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 For the sake of agreement this putative trip is re-designated as a Level 4. However I can state with assurance that some of the NSPN descriptions of Level 4 will not apply. Distance will not be 20+ miles and neither will pace be 4 knots. I agree fully with the statement that planning should include the worst case. What about current? Is there any to contend with in this crossing? Gene, As a participant on a trip that went badly due to conditions deteriorating on the return, 2 on the trip, including me, were towed back from a much longer distance than I would like to admit, I would recommend an early start to the day to avoid the afternoon winds as much as possible. The headwinds we experienced were so great that I contemplated heading back to the Isle of Shoals for a little sleepover. (I was under tow at that point and paddling as hard as I could but couldn't catch up with my tower to communicate my intention.) Of course we were only a mile from home at that point but the final mile took about an hour. (Extenuating circumstances were that the next day I had a 102 fever and tested positive for strep, so I was brewing something on the paddle and feeling a bit under the weather. That's the point though - stuff happens. Do not take this trip lightly and be prepared for the worst on the return. I will say that not too many people are capable of towing in those conditions, lucky for me, my husband is one of them. The other gentleman that towed the distance has never been seen or heard from again! Guess he didn't want to tow strangers! Understand that the bail out points are a long way away and therefore not truly bail out points. Plan to keep the group together and tight. It is too easy to get lulled into a bit of separation on the way back as people naturally gravitate into small groups for conversation. If something happens, you will end up with not enough people to help. Yes, there is current and it is a good idea to know how to use transits and your compass to avoid the extra distance if you are pushed off your target. Suz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 SMSKN has a trip to the Shoals scheduled for July 5th. We can either join them as guests or plan our own trip. I'm happy to initiate but would like some input on planning and navigation. Post here if interested. This will be a Level 3, 6.25 mile open water crossing from Rye Harbor State Marina. Too early to forecast conditions accurately. Trip will be a go only if conditions stay within Level 3. Hey Gene, I won't repeat all that has been said but I agree with all of it. I led a trip out there last season and bailed on the first attempt due to conditions (paddled up the coast instead). The actual trip out there turned out to be fairly flat and windless in both directions, but I went out fully aware of the potential conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Well, thanks for all the heads up advice. While I can paddle for 20+ miles in a day I'm not sure I could do a 4 k pace (or would want to). Assuming that one needs to anticipate or be prepared for the worst case, I guess from all of the above that I'm not. So for now this trip as an NSPN initiative is withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 ...and those thirteen or fourteen miles out and back <will> increase if only you paddle around some of the islands a bit! I reckon you can, likely as not, count on a 20-mile day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Well, thanks for all the heads up advice. While I can paddle for 20+ miles in a day I'm not sure I could do a 4 k pace (or would want to). Assuming that one needs to anticipate or be prepared for the worst case, I guess from all of the above that I'm not. So for now this trip as an NSPN initiative is withdrawn. Gene, I will fully admit that I have no desire to paddle straight out into the ocean to the Isle of Shoals just to say I did it. I say you and I hop on the ferry that goes out there with our boats, explore the island by boat and then share some margaritas together on the ferry ride back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Gene, I will fully admit that I have no desire to paddle straight out into the ocean to the Isle of Shoals just to say I did it. I say you and I hop on the ferry that goes out there with our boats, explore the island by boat and then share some margaritas together on the ferry ride back! A most excellent approach to accomplishing a visit to the Isle of Shoals in a civilized and enjoyable manner and to paddle about them as well. Ed Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'd volunteer to be a motorized support boat captain. There is only one problem - I don't have any motorized boats anymore since I started seakayaking. A most excellent approach to accomplishing a visit to the Isle of Shoals in a civilized and enjoyable manner and to paddle about them as well. Ed Lawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 Gene, I will fully admit that I have no desire to paddle straight out into the ocean to the Isle of Shoals just to say I did it. I say you and I hop on the ferry that goes out there with our boats, explore the island by boat and then share some margaritas together on the ferry ride back! Sounds like a great plan. I'm in. When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Sounds like a great plan. I'm in. When? Would the club charter a trip? Hummmm Is there enough interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 +1 Would the club charter a trip? Hummmm Is there enough interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scamlin Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 +1 If you are serious about a charter, I can ask a contact in the Kittery/Portsmouth area who knows fishermen who may be interested. Email me privately at scamlin at restructassoc dot com Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 you guys this is a great idea!!! +1 for me too! scott i'll email you at your address listed and see if we can't get enough folks for a mothership out to the shoals and back! wohoo! i was kind of kidding at first but now this sounds like a lot of fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Oh, come on, now, Mrs. Beckwith -- it's not <that> big a deal! You'll have plenty of time for chatting whilst you paddle out there! You'll like that part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Oh, come on, now, Mrs. Beckwith -- it's not <that> big a deal! You'll have plenty of time for chatting whilst you paddle out there! You'll like that part... Folks, you can charter me. Have towline, will tow (after the Blackburn Challenge that is). If the towees help by paddling a little, I'll tow two boats out to the IOS and back. I won't supply the drinks though. Karen G. is my reference ... I towed her around Cape Ann last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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