This weekend

[JohnHuth]

Beautiful weather, cold water temperatures - dress smart!!

[Phil Allen]

Beautiful weather, cold water temperatures - dress smart!!

Probably the hardest part of paddling tomorrow will be figuring out what to wear. Good news is one can expect the coastal temps to be 10-20 degrees cooler than the inland highs. Also, watch out for the sea breeze kicking in.

Phil

[EEL]

Probably the hardest part of paddling tomorrow will be figuring out what to wear.

Might be of value to others if those who paddle this weekend post what they wore and why, and the type of paddling they did. FWIW, I will go out this afternoon for a short 6+ mile paddle on a local lake where the water temps are colder than the ocean. I plan on wearing surfskin pants, a light poly shirt and a drytop. Dressed for immersion? No. Dressed for the paddle? Yes.

On Sunday expect to be playing on ocean and agree that is a harder call which I haven't made yet.

Ed Lawson

If Derek says he never dressed for immersion, then it must be OK.

On second thought, it isn't.

[Suz]

Might be of value to others if those who paddle this weekend post what they wore and why, and the type of paddling they did. FWIW, I will go out this afternoon for a short 6+ mile paddle on a local lake where the water temps are colder than the ocean. I plan on wearing surfskin pants, a light poly shirt and a drytop. Dressed for immersion? No. Dressed for the paddle? Yes.

On Sunday expect to be playing on ocean and agree that is a harder call which I haven't made yet.

Ed Lawson

If Derek says he never dressed for immersion, then it must be OK.

On second thought, it isn't.

WOW, I definitely don't advocate what Ed is planning on doing. Water temps below 40 in the lakes.

Kinda sorta speechless... Ed - I'm just surprised. Basic rule of thumb is to dress in a manner that if you swam you would be comfortable in the time it takes to do a rescue.

In surfskin pants and a poly shirt w/ drytop - sheesh- why bother with the drytop? If you are dressing for the air temps skip the drytop - a drytop provides very little value if you swim. Only for protection from the wind and moving splashing water and I am suspecting that you believe the lake would be flat and therefore you are not likely to inadvertently go over and therefore won't be immersed.

For anyone who is unsure what surfskin is, it is like fuzzy rubber and doesn't hold water and provides very little insulation - less than 2m neoprene.

I will put money on it that we will hear of a few accidents this weekend in New England. The air is warm and the water is cold and I would seriously doubt that you or anyone else would be able to swim far with what you propose to wear. I suggest that you try it after your paddle - swim along shore with someone there there to help if need be. Let us know how you make out.

As for what I am planning to wear today - drysuit with a layer of Kokatat inner core and a layer of outer core on the top and the bottom, just the layer of outercore. I will skip gloves but have in my pfd should I need them. I will have a surfskin cap ready but not on along with a wool hat to slip on should I get my hair wet.

If needed, I will roll to cool off and if I couldn't roll, I would hold onto another kayaks bow and dip to get my body and head wet to cool off. As soon as my hair is wet, it will keep my cool.

It is always possible to cool off, not as easy to warm up. Ed, please be careful what you advocate. I know your skill level and I know you are very unlikely to go over with what you propose to wear, I also know that you will most likely roll up if you did. Others who read this, do not necessarily know that and beginners especially will hear what you propose and do the same but without your skills and knowledge of the cold.

Suz

[EEL]

Basic rule of thumb is to dress in a manner that if you swam you would be comfortable in the time it takes to do a rescue.

That is the rule and I deviate only after some thought

I am suspecting that you believe the lake would be flat and therefore you are not likely to inadvertently go over and therefore won't be immersed.

Yes, that was the risk assessment. I checked out things on way home from office so I knew it was calm. I tend to have a climber's view which is you use a rope not when the consequences of a fall would be serious/catastrophic, but when the risk of a fall exceeds reasonable risk. Stuff happens, but thought risk low and I was not paddling alone. I paddled conservatively (as always being timid woodland creature) and the lake is a much less dynamic and predictable place than the ocean

I will put money on it that we will hear of a few accidents this weekend in New England.

There were two other people paddling on lake and both were wearing short sleeved shirts and only one was wearing a PFD.

Let us know how you make out.

Well, I actually ended up wearing thin poly and dry pants with the top to reduce overheating, but increase protection from getting wet. Two sets of gloves and two hoods readily available rounded out clothing.

Ed, please be careful what you advocate.

Did not mean to advocate my choices for that day and place and paddle for anyone in another place/activity, just intended to move conversation along.

You choices are basically mine for being on ocean this weekend.

Ed lawson

[JohnHuth]

I was just out on Nantucket Sound. Wind was below 8 knots. The warm weather inland must've sucked in some fog.

I had on a drysuit with longjohns underneath, a neoprene cap, gloves. I was pretty comfortable with the fog and the wind blowing off the Sound - maybe a little sweaty, but nothing too bad. I tried a reentry and roll at the end to convince myself I'd dressed up properly.

The biggest hazard was a scallop dredger that loomed out of the fog, returning to harbor.

[brambor]

Ed

You are a rebel ;-)

I went alone this morning. Drysuit and a thin wool long

johns with wool long sleeve. Futzed around in a cove ,playing with a few new toys.

Observations:

Stohlquist Rocker PFD - love it. Very comfortable.

Solar radio - a joke

Windpaddle - dont get one too big. If the wind changes suddenly it will trap you under. Same if the wind blows it to the side and it picks up water. Definite liability for single kayaker. It will be good on a tandem which is why i got it .

Greenland Paddle - My second time outside with it. Love it but didn't have the guts to venture alone out of the cove.

That is the rule and I deviate only after some thought

Yes, that was the risk assessment. I checked out things on way home from office so I knew it was calm. I tend to have a climber's view which is you use a rope not when the consequences of a fall would be serious/catastrophic, but when the risk of a fall exceeds reasonable risk. Stuff happens, but thought risk low and I was not paddling alone. I paddled conservatively (as always being timid woodland creature) and the lake is a much less dynamic and predictable place than the ocean

There were two other people paddling on lake and both were wearing short sleeved shirts and only one was wearing a PFD.

Well, I actually ended up wearing thin poly and dry pants with the top to reduce overheating, but increase protection from getting wet. Two sets of gloves and two hoods readily available rounded out clothing.

Did not mean to advocate my choices for that day and place and paddle for anyone in another place/activity, just intended to move conversation along.

You choices are basically mine for being on ocean this weekend.

Ed lawson

[spider]

Nice thread ...with a touch of controversy to boot.

I know my wife bought me a dry suit so I could go on winter paddles with other people as much as any other reason.

But

Now for the "transition seasons" I find that I do most all my paddling solo and dress according to what I think the conditions will be and how warm the air temps are. The water always seems freakin cold to me, which I guess is not really all that accurate.

(I long remember going for some rolling instuction all dressed to the hilt in immmersion gear, and as I'm launching a guy shows up in his speedo bathing suit wades into the water and heads straight out for his swim.)

So... yestedays paddle... I wore heavy wet suit shorts, with tall neo mukluks long poly tee shirt with a semi dry top, hat and sunscreen.

Paddled out of Pavillion, which I often do, went down to Cranes against the tide, checked out the surf which I deemed to rough for what I wanted to deal with, swung the boat around and rode the tide into the Sound and checked out the Rowley River on the flood tide.

By paddling solo I don't have to worry that I'm underdressed for paddling with others.

I actually don't worry in relation to setting a bad example for others as I think people should make up their own minds.

If I were to make an analogy...my choice might just be Darwin's natural selection in action, which is what we think of here in NH when we see people on motorcycles riding without helmets...

Happy paddling... Happy Easter

Be safe !

[PeterB]

I have found that the difference between 40 and 50 degree water temperatures is profound:

In 50 degree water I can paddle all day without gloves, including some time in the water: However, If I immerse my hand in 40 degree water, I am losing function in a matter of seconds. I once immersed my head in @ 40 degree water, with a surfskin skull cap, and had a screaming ice cream headache in the time it takes to do a roll. My biggest worry in 40 degree water would be the immediate effects of immersion, or immersion shock. An entirely possible scenario: experienced roller capsizes, the shock of cold water on head etc, messes up ones normally reliable roll, paddler wet exits, with possible compounding/spiraling problems once in the water . To this end, some sort of headwear and gloves in this weekend's conditions may be uncomfortable, but advisable.

It would seem to me that, paddling in hotter weather, a drysuit would be roughly as comfortable, or uncomfortable, as a drytop, so if you own one, why not wear the drysuit? Can't see any comfort or thermal advantages to the drytop. Having said that, I have seen drytops married to drypants that may let in a trickle, but basically keep one safe. I was on the west coast recently, and was surprised to see many experienced paddlers wearing dry bibs married with drytops. Seems like a pretty tried and true combo out there

I'm going to try wearing a drysuit more often this spring, summer and fall, see if I can handle overheating and sweating issues. On extended paddles (camping trips etc) I have found that being wet all day and and changing into and out of wet clothes (especially into at the beginning of the day) is just uncomfortable, and I want to see how it works with a drysuit.

.

[rylevine]

Might be of value to others if those who paddle this weekend post what they wore and why, and the type of paddling they did. FWIW, I will go out this afternoon for a short 6+ mile paddle on a local lake where the water temps are colder than the ocean. I plan on wearing surfskin pants, a light poly shirt and a drytop. Dressed for immersion? No. Dressed for the paddle? Yes.

On Sunday expect to be playing on ocean and agree that is a harder call which I haven't made yet.

Ed Lawson

If Derek says he never dressed for immersion, then it must be OK.

On second thought, it isn't.

Ed

I went out on the Marblehead Deveroux trip yesterday with eight other NSPNers. Light bumpy conditions, sunny weather, and an overall exhilarating trip, as per usual. I wore the Kokatat supernova semi-dry (which, by the way, Gail had mentioned was for sale at an outlet store in Concord last summer). Underneath I had long sleeve polyester shirt and long-johns. Had gloves, caps, and extra dry clothes in dry bag, but did not need them. I had on water shoes over the booties with regular socks underneath (I'm just not comfortable with boots, no matter how large). The air temps off Marblehead were cooler, probably down to the 60s, and there was some wind. I was comfortable the entire day, starting out at 8:30am and returning to Forest River at about 4:00. Was determined to stay out of the water, however, since just wading in and the usual launch/bump splashing was enough of that cold water experience for me. I felt a slight chill at lunch on Browns Island, but not enough to dig out my dry clothes. I'll try a wet exit and practice roll at Forest River just to see how things work out - but will wait for those storm drain effects to diminish!

Bob

[EEL]

My biggest worry in 40 degree water would be the immediate effects of immersion, or immersion shock. To this end, some sort of headwear and gloves in this weekend's conditions may be uncomfortable, but advisable.

That is what i worry about on hot days with cold water. You just don't want to wear protective headgear and gloves, but without them the impact when your head is under is harsh and your hands get useless fast. With headgear and gloves, things are manageable even when water is in the 30s.

It would seem to me that ,paddling in hotter weather, a a drysuit would be roughly as comfortable, or uncomfortable, as a drytop ,....

I'm going to try wearing a drysuit more often this spring, summer and fall, see if I can handle overheating and sweating issues.

FWIW, yesterday going around Gerrish I wore a drysuit with a ligtht poly top and bottom.

With a decent SE wind making the air cool it was very comfy. I was surprised how comfy it was actually.

While I agree with the logic that a semi dry top is useless, as a practical matter I find them very nice for touring about when getting pounded is unlikely.

On extended paddles (camping trips etc) I have found that being wet all day and and changing into and out of wet clothes.... is just uncomfortable, and I want to see how it works with a drysuit.

I am just hoping to get in enough trips to explore options to avoid those cold clammy moments. Or to become stoic enough to accept it with the understanding (hope) things will be OK after 30 minutes.

Ed Lawson

[rwolson]

Yesterday, paddled for the first time of this year in a lake on the Dracut/Tyngsboro line. I saw one other boat on the lake. I paddle the lake a lot during the season.

I wore a drysuit and wool long johns underneath. I felt comfortable. If I overheat I cannot count on wet hair to keep me cool

I wore myself out very quickly while trying to push and guide a piece of loating dock to shore. I thought about towing the deck section, but no place to attach a tow rope. When I got a bit warm just removed my BB cap and let the sun beat down on my hair challenged head.

I did stand in the cold water up to knees for a couple of minutes and yes, still need another layer over the wool just in case I dump the boat.

Great day on the water watching a swan paddle around.

[JohnHuth]

I have found that the difference between 40 and 50 degree water temperatures is profound:

.

Same here. I find that there's a huge fall-off between about 52 degrees and 48. Rolling in 42 degree water is beastly - there's a huge "oh my god..." shock that you have to get over before you can focus on the task at hand.

[EEL]

Rolling in 42 degree water is beastly - there's a huge "oh my god..." shock that you have to get over before you can focus on the task at hand.

I wonder if a cold water event makes more sense in the Spring when many are getting out. Would be a dose of reality therapy so to speak. Agree on how a few degrees makes a difference. However, doing a few rolls or whatever in cold water is a very good thing to do as it gives you the knowledge of what it feels like. I believe that is important because when you get knocked over you need to ignore such environmental issues, control fear, and work with deliberate speed to get body and blade in the right places and then execute well. By knowing what it feels like you are a step closer to dialing it out even if it is beastly. Not that I advocate subjecting yourself to repeated rolling session in frigid water. One approach is to do a sculling brace to get head wet a few times and then a roll. Not quite as bad a shock that way.

Ed Lawson

[jdkilroy]

So I am paddling on a lake in afternoons and I paddled last week. Warm air but water as cold as you can imagine on bare hands. I wore 3mm farmer john, 2 wool under layers and a dry top; bare minimum and I can get back in my boat pretty quick. I observed a couple guys paddling kayaks in tank tops (no pfd's) and I don't know what beneath. It got pretty windy toward the end of the paddle.

There is no way to teach common sense to some one but I have to think that these guys received little if any advice from the point of sale regarding kayaking and appropriate dress.

On the other hand, it is pretty expensive to outfit ourselves the way we do. Many simply can't afford the whole package. Many of us who can, loose sight of the money we spend to keep ourselves saf(er) on the water... add it up sometime, if you dare.

Just a reality check.

So... "Lets be safe out there."

Jon