Interclub Paddle

[Suz]

Wednesday night I was at North Cove Outfitters and did a slide show presentation. Afterward, I went out for pizza with a group of CONNYAK paddlers. The subject came up of the interclub paddle's of years past. Connyak, RICKA and NSPN would get together for a big interclub paddle. It was always a lot of fun. Logistics presented challenges - keeping groups small yet having a communal lunch spot or picnic after. Last was down in Connecticut I believe.

It would be great to do this type of thing again. Is there any interest in hosting this again on the North Shore? I could assist with the organizing/planning. Spring/Summer is too busy for me to commit to more than assisting though. Anyone else willing to take this on with an assistant?

Suz

[scamlin]

Suz:

I think Boston Sea Kayak Club also used to join us on these paddles. We should give them a shout when the time comes to see if they are interested.

Scott

[jason]

Suz:

I think Boston Sea Kayak Club also used to join us on these paddles. We should give them a shout when the time comes to see if they are interested.

Scott

I am not sure that BSKC is still active. I would suggest posting an invitation to http://www.wtpaddlers.org/phpBB3/

-Jason

[ccarlson]

Maybe SMSKN as well if the paddling is to be on the North Shore. Within reasonable reach of southern ME at least.

SMSKN

[subaruguru]

I am not sure that BSKC is still active. I would suggest posting an invitation to http://www.wtpaddlers.org/phpBB3/

-Jason

Re: Wild Turkey

I'm not so sure. I scanned their discussion logs and see that the great majority of them are "basic" paddlers seeking "formal paddling", or have in one instance at least "been paddling for three years and haven't done my first wet exit yet." And they mostly own 10-14' rec boats.

Am I reading them incorrectly? I thought the Plymouth area was for seakayaking, no?

[EEL]

I scanned their discussion logs and see that the great majority of them are "basic" paddlers seeking "formal paddling", or have in one instance at least "been paddling for three years and haven't done my first wet exit yet." And they mostly own 10-14' rec boats.

Given recent discussions about unknowing rec boat paddlers, perhaps those are the very folks NSPN should be encouraging to participate in such an event. And, perhaps it would a good thing for more "experience/skilled/adjective of choice" NSPN paddlers to spend time paddling with such folks to impart some knowledge/awareness/skills. Not sure what "pass it forward" means otherwise, but I also understand it represents a sacrifice of limited paddling time.

Ed Lawson

[bob budd]

There are, or at least were, plenty of paddlers among the turkeys. Perhaps most notable is Johnny Smoke who works/worked for NOLS, which rhymes with rolls, but that's another story.

[Michael_Crouse]

The Turkey's aren't rec paddlers, they paddle around boston harbor, RI, etc.... they're sea kayakers they're just low key (ie: no chest thumping).

[jason]

Re: Wild Turkey

I'm not so sure. I scanned their discussion logs and see that the great majority of them are "basic" paddlers seeking "formal paddling", or have in one instance at least "been paddling for three years and haven't done my first wet exit yet." And they mostly own 10-14' rec boats.

Am I reading them incorrectly? I thought the Plymouth area was for seakayaking, no?

I wouldn't be so quick to rule them out, It's a mixed group with a wide range of skills rec boat paddlers though class V white water. A good percent (~50%) of WT Paddlers have a roll and ocean boats.

-Jason

[Suz]

Wednesday night I was at North Cove Outfitters and did a slide show presentation. Afterward, I went out for pizza with a group of CONNYAK paddlers. The subject came up of the interclub paddle's of years past. Connyak, RICKA and NSPN would get together for a big interclub paddle. It was always a lot of fun. Logistics presented challenges - keeping groups small yet having a communal lunch spot or picnic after. Last was down in Connecticut I believe.

It would be great to do this type of thing again. Is there any interest in hosting this again on the North Shore? I could assist with the organizing/planning. Spring/Summer is too busy for me to commit to more than assisting though. Anyone else willing to take this on with an assistant?

Suz

The question isn't who to invite, all would be invited but the question is anyone up to the monumental task of being the coordinator/organizer and chief party person????

The person needn't be a great paddle, just a great organizer. The location should be Marblehead as was done in the past because the the pavillion area for a post paddle get together. Just like was done for the big 10th birthday for NSPN.

The key to it would be having enough small groups to go out so that there was a paddle for everyone. Usually the greater numbers would be in the lesser experienced groups.

Probably should do it early June or in September so that beachgoers are fewer and if good weather, parking not too big of a fight.

Suz

[PeterB]

The question isn't who to invite, all would be invited but the question is anyone up to the monumental task of being the coordinator/organizer and chief party person????

The person needn't be a great paddle, just a great organizer. The location should be Marblehead as was done in the past because the the pavillion area for a post paddle get together. Just like was done for the big 10th birthday for NSPN.

The key to it would be having enough small groups to go out so that there was a paddle for everyone. Usually the greater numbers would be in the lesser experienced groups.

Probably should do it early June or in September so that beachgoers are fewer and if good weather, parking not too big of a fight.

Suz

Would it be a terrible idea to combine this with our Solstice Paddle, or looked at another way, have our yearly Solstice paddle and , this year, invite other groups? Logistically it would be easier as the Solstice Paddle would be organized anyway, with its different level paddles . I remember my first Solstice paddle,and there were some folks who had traveled from from Connecticut, Montreal, etc. and that was cool.

If the feeling is that this would dilute or alter the spirit of the SP in some way ,then its a bad idea. if not, worth considering. .

One way or the next,I think a well-organized interclub paddle is a good idea.

[Suz]

Would it be a terrible idea to combine this with our Solstice Paddle, or looked at another way, have our yearly Solstice paddle and , this year, invite other groups? Logistically it would be easier as the Solstice Paddle would be organized anyway, with its different level paddles . I remember my first Solstice paddle,and there were some folks who had traveled from from Connecticut, Montreal, etc. and that was cool.

If the feeling is that this would dilute or alter the spirit of the SP in some way ,then its a bad idea. if not, worth considering. .

One way or the next,I think a well-organized interclub paddle is a good idea.

Great idea - June 19 is the Saturday which is the logical day as people will be traveling from farther away to attend if the event gets good attendance.

Suz

[spuglisi]

Great idea - June 19 is the Saturday which is the logical day as people will be traveling from farther away to attend if the event gets good attendance.

Suz

I think that's a great idea too Peter. If the effort is already going into organizing the solstice paddle why not make it an open invitation. I think it fits with the spirit of getting people out to paddle.

[subaruguru]

I wouldn't be so quick to rule them out, It's a mixed group with a wide range of skills rec boat paddlers though class V white water. A good percent (~50%) of WT Paddlers have a roll and ocean boats.

-Jason

My concern was safety. There may have to be extra precautions if a bunch of rec boats show up for a paddle in "conditions."

[subaruguru]

I think that's a great idea too Peter. If the effort is already going into organizing the solstice paddle why not make it an open invitation. I think it fits with the spirit of getting people out to paddle.

OTOH, again, just trying to be careful, isn't the SP already large enough to be stretching the limits of either parking or put-in space? Or even our management ability?

If so it'd be nice to have them as separate events, and thus offer more club-sponsored paddling opportunities too.

[subaruguru]

Given recent discussions about unknowing rec boat paddlers, perhaps those are the very folks NSPN should be encouraging to participate in such an event. And, perhaps it would a good thing for more "experience/skilled/adjective of choice" NSPN paddlers to spend time paddling with such folks to impart some knowledge/awareness/skills. Not sure what "pass it forward" means otherwise, but I also understand it represents a sacrifice of limited paddling time.

Ed Lawson

Hi Ed. I most certainly agree, your comment jogging my memory of the not-so-long-ago first paddling Spring with my Pungo, quickly followed by getting my first seakayak and Mystic Lake

Tuesdays.

Just not sure that the Club's SP is the right place to have a Level 1 contingent unless conditions happen to be very mild.

[Suz]

Hi Ed. I most certainly agree, your comment jogging my memory of the not-so-long-ago first paddling Spring with my Pungo, quickly followed by getting my first seakayak and Mystic Lake

Tuesdays.

Just not sure that the Club's SP is the right place to have a Level 1 contingent unless conditions happen to be very mild.

A Marblehead launch for all gives many opportunities for protected paddling and open water for play. The key to it is to make sure that all groups are kept small and not like some of the previous Solstice Paddles with 25 people in a group.

Sometime once on the water, it is hard to keep from mingling groups but this could be handled easily with some sort of colored band that one would wear AND having a buddy system within each group. That would keep groups from inadvertently mingling and someone ending up with the wrong group and their group thinking they are missing.

Nothing wrong with rec boats in protected waters. Only hard part is finding trip leaders willing to stay with them! I will volunteer to take one group in protected waters assuming the other two events that are penciled in on my calendar don't require my attendance.

Suz

[peter hinsch]

I am writing this as a member of ConnYak. I would love to come up to MA and paddle in your area, but I haven't heard anything more about it. I'm not sure if any discussion of the interclub paddle has taken place with the ConnYak officers/ members lately or if NSPN has discussed this event to see if anything is still possible?

Does anyone know where this event stands at this time? Thanks.

Pete

[alcoons]

I love the idea of the Interclub Paddle, but I do think safety is an enormous issue. My first Interclub paddle out of Mystic (I think) many years ago was very very dangerous due to surprising wind, sea conditions, and dropping temperatures. There were rescues made by NSPN members and a bail-out from the planned route by many of us. No one was hurt, but the level of care and planning did not reflect the level of care many of us have come to expect at the lower expertise levels. I know that all involved learned a lot from that experience.

A similar thing happened last year at the solstice paddle. Condition came up which were not expected, inexperienced paddlers joined large groups, significant rescues were made in significant condition (given the experience of the paddlers). Those with experience in that group did an impressive job of managing the situation and those who were rescued were thankful and blamed themselves more than the trip, but it was not pretty.

1) I know I am repeat myself (for the 1000 time), but level 2 paddlers cannot easily make decisions for themselves when going to the ocean. They do not have the experience to know what they are getting into.

2) It is hard to vet the lower level paddlers at the solstice event since it is more of a SHOW UP AND GO than a make-sure-the-level-is-right-online-before-you-show.

3) Lower level paddle groups are more likely to split up on this type of paddle due to fatigue, emotional situations, and changing conditions (between the beach and the ocean).

4) In a situation such as last year, lower level paddlers struggle to take care of themselves and often scatter.

Suggestion: We need to make sure there are plenty of experienced paddlers with the lower groups (more like 6 than 3) and help paddlers made conservative choices about which trip to go on, and keep groups small.

Al

PS. Having said all that, the seas will dead flat, there will be no wind, and the Level 2 group will go twice as far as they imagined they could.

[spuglisi]

I love the idea of the Interclub Paddle, but I do think safety is an enormous issue. My first Interclub paddle out of Mystic (I think) many years ago was very very dangerous due to surprising wind, sea conditions, and dropping temperatures. There were rescues made by NSPN members and a bail-out from the planned route by many of us. No one was hurt, but the level of care and planning did not reflect the level of care many of us have come to expect at the lower expertise levels. I know that all involved learned a lot from that experience.

A similar thing happened last year at the solstice paddle. Condition came up which were not expected, inexperienced paddlers joined large groups, significant rescues were made in significant condition (given the experience of the paddlers). Those with experience in that group did an impressive job of managing the situation and those who were rescued were thankful and blamed themselves more than the trip, but it was not pretty.

1) I know I am repeat myself (for the 1000 time), but level 2 paddlers cannot easily make decisions for themselves when going to the ocean. They do not have the experience to know what they are getting into.

2) It is hard to vet the lower level paddlers at the solstice event since it is more of a SHOW UP AND GO than a make-sure-the-level-is-right-online-before-you-show.

3) Lower level paddle groups are more likely to split up on this type of paddle due to fatigue, emotional situations, and changing conditions (between the beach and the ocean).

4) In a situation such as last year, lower level paddlers struggle to take care of themselves and often scatter.

Suggestion: We need to make sure there are plenty of experienced paddlers with the lower groups (more like 6 than 3) and help paddlers made conservative choices about which trip to go on, and keep groups small.

Al

PS. Having said all that, the seas will dead flat, there will be no wind, and the Level 2 group will go twice as far as they imagined they could.

Al,

That's pretty much how the discussion went at the board meeting last night. There was general agreement that the people leading the lower level solstice trips should have plenty of back-up by paddlers experienced enough to do rescues and tows...etc.

[EEL]

There was general agreement that the people leading the lower level solstice trips should have plenty of back-up by paddlers experienced enough to do rescues and tows...etc.

Just to be disruptive. This is the first I heard that last year's Solistice paddle was a nightmare. I seem to recall all the posts being positive at the time on how everyone dealt with things kicking up a little.

Regardless, a couple of comments from the peanut gallery. If the paddlers on the L2 paddle had trouble, it was definitely not their fault. I do not even like the concept of paddlers being rated or thought of as "only" a level this or that paddler. Rather I think paddles are a certain level (often determined in hindsight) and it is up to the more experienced people on the paddle (whether leaders or whatever) to mentor folks to enable them to do the paddle or to take responsible action to avoid serious trouble. I think as club members the more experienced paddlers should not put on the mantel of L whatever advanced paddlers and go bounce around the same rocks they can bounce around any time, but should willingly and affirmatively go out with the least experienced folks and chat, mentor, and aid as needed.

The often used phrase "pass it forward" should not be some hollow platitude. Otherwise how are folks within the structure of club activities ever going to develop the skills, knowledge and experience to go on coastal trips without fear and trepidation. I make these points because I learned a great deal from folks who were willing to go on easy trips, who chatted and gave suggestions along the way, who provided encouragement, and who by their presence demoed how to do things properly. It seems to me that is what a club is all about.

Ed Lawson

[kate]

Just a note to emphasize what Jason pointed out: the Wild Turkeys are a group of paddlers covering the spectrum of skill levels. It'd be a pity if you didn't include them in an invitation to paddlers from Maine to Conn. I liked the further explanation that they don't thump the chest (nor get excited about BCU stars, I will add). I think that is right on the money and it's one reason why I enjoy paddling with them so much. A sizable handful of NSPN'ers paddle with WT paddlers too.

I can't make it myself on that date, or I'd come for sure (as I did last year). I think it would be a splendid gesture of fellowship to extend the invitation to the WT though. I don't think you'll get any rec boaters responding, but you can make sure of it by being clear about skill level required.

sounds like a grand event!

kate

[NPSheehan]

I think Ed was right on with his statement "I think as club members the more experienced paddlers should not put on the mantel of L whatever advanced paddlers and go bounce around the same rocks they can bounce around any time, but should willingly and affirmatively go out with the least experienced folks and chat, mentor, and aid as needed. "

One of the stigmas about NSPN from many folks in the NE Seacoast Paddlers group who had at one point or another paddled with an NSPN group is that there is a condescending attitude by some NSPN folks and not one of mentorship if they are not at a certain experience level. I feel NSPN and it's seasoned experienced members have a lot to offer novice or intermediate sea kayakers looking to challenge themselves and increase their skill level but many are shy from joining in on a trip as they feel it is beyond their ability and don't want to to feel inferior. Maybe an idea for a joint club paddle is one that offers mentorship and seamanship instruction as well as a general paddle for the folks who want a challenge. I see on the calendar a New to Sea Kayaking workshop but then very seldom if ever see a organized paddle for the new to sea kayaking folks.

Neil

[Phil Allen]

There is some history of the club and the current organization of trips using the CAM model that gets in the way of intro trips. I'm sure that others have been members longer than I can fill in the gaps, but when I joined the club it was in transition. The organization and the folks who run it realized it could be legally responsible for things that happened on its trips and the ACA was just initiating guide training and was not providing trip insurance for anything beyond level 2. From a new member perspective at the time, this seemed to drive away all but the most devoted of the pay it forward types from the club, as they couldn't paddle within the club at their level.

While this problem has diminished with the decision to function under the CAM model, in my opinion CAM is on shaky grounds for level 1 and level 2 trips. As Al has stated and I tend to agree with his opinion, it's difficult for beginner and intro-mediate (spelled that way on purpose) paddlers to really take responsibility for themselves on the ocean given our normal sea states around here. And the core of CAM is that one is responsible for one's actions; that there is no "leader" to tell you what to do. I'm not sure there's a intellectually/legally consistent way to resolve the conflict.

The only suggestion I have is that the club could re-visit insurance, either through the ACA or through the umbrella of one of the commercial kayak companies nearby, to cover appropriately led trips and classes for level 1-2 paddlers. I'm ignorant of the details of the current ACA trip insurance and costs, or the costs of hiring insured guides for such events.

Phil

[Pintail]

I would like to open up, a little, one area: why limit the day to Marblehead? I think that Cape Ann is equally suitable -- indeed, one year I think we <did> have this annual bash in Gloucester, with Stage Fort Park being perfectly good for the post-paddle party.

There is easy access to many different areas for the various levels of competence, from protected Essex Bay or the entire Annisquam river, all the way up to (perhaps?) a circumnavigation of the cape for those who want some distance. In addition, there is the Cape Ann camping ground near Wingaersheek for any who would like to stay more than one day (attractive to those who might come from afar?)

Generally, I can not make Saturdays myself; but this ought to be considered as a venue.