STRAIT SHAFT OR BENT?

[Doug]

Now that I find myself needing to purchase another Ikelos (due to my disappearing paddle trick), I feel somewhat torn between bent & strait shaft. I have owned both and personally migrated from a bent to strait shaft 2 years ago after doing some extensive training with instructors prone to "strait only" shafts (we need not mention names). I now notice that some of the more aggressive paddlers that I find myself in the company of use the bent shaft. I think the main reason would be for better control in difficult situations. I admit that at least once every time I go out my hand will slip off my paddle shaft. This can be a regrettable situation if it occurs in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do on the other hand enjoy the lighter finesse of the strait shaft. There is also the ergonomic positioning to consider.

Would anyone like to add their feelings one way or the other before I take the leap.....again?

PS

I do have a 98% new Epic Mid Wing that I would sell to help off set the purchase of my new paddle if anyone is interested.

[EEL]

I admit that at least once every time I go out my hand will slip off my paddle shaft.

I found a liberal application of cold water Sex Wax on the shaft helps to prevent this.

Ed Lawson

[beckt]

Straight shaft and I agree with Ed on the sex wax

[Phil Allen]

I tape the hand positions on my straight shaft with electrical tape (with a twist on the back side for indexing). It makes a very tactile and easily found mark for my hands.

Phil

[tyson]

I find that I'm happier when my shaft is straight. ...errr.. never mind.

Emilie found that she preferred a bent shaft. She has some wrist problems and the bent shaft reduced strain.

I have found that I am generally able to paddle with the bent shaft, but when grabbing my paddle quickly to brace and some other cases I was lost on it. I found that it was not what I was used to, but only noticed "under stress". I seem to prefer the versatility of the straight shaft in that I can move my hands around on it as needed. Bent shaft wants your hands in one spot. I don't seem to have problems indexing or controlling a straight shaft. ...yet I do with the bent.

How much for the Epic? ...though since picking up an Greenland Paddle I'm finding wings less enticing.

Cheers!

Ty

[jason]

I find that I'm happier when my shaft is straight. ...errr.. never mind.

Emilie found that she preferred a bent shaft. She has some wrist problems and the bent shaft reduced strain.

I have found that I am generally able to paddle with the bent shaft, but when grabbing my paddle quickly to brace and some other cases I was lost on it. I found that it was not what I was used to, but only noticed "under stress". I seem to prefer the versatility of the straight shaft in that I can move my hands around on it as needed. Bent shaft wants your hands in one spot. I don't seem to have problems indexing or controlling a straight shaft. ...yet I do with the bent.

How much for the Epic? ...though since picking up an Greenland Paddle I'm finding wings less enticing.

Cheers!

Ty

Is Emilie gripping her paddle to tightly?

I used to paddle a bent shaft Ikelos and have since converted to strait shaft paddles.

With a tight grip a bent shaft only helps you keep a nutral wrist angle for part of the stroke. With a loose grip a bent shaft doesn't have an advantage.

If you didn't guess by now I would suggest getting another strait shaft Ikelos.

-Jason

[Doug]

How much for the Epic? ...though since picking up an Greenland Paddle I'm finding wings less enticing.

Cheers!

Ty

I suppose I could part with it for $299. You'll need it for the Blackburn next year.

Doug

[Michael_Crouse]

I'm not a fan of bent shaft paddles since the bend is always in the same place. How can it be ergonomic if it forces everybody to space their hands the same distance apart?

Are they making wing paddles with bent shafts? I would think that if bent shafts are that much better that racers would have adopted them long ago.

I also can't do those Derek Hutchinson approved extended paddle things easily with a bent shaft.

[tyson]

Is Emilie gripping her paddle to tightly?

I used to paddle a bent shaft Ikelos and have since converted to strait shaft paddles.

With a tight grip a bent shaft only helps you keep a nutral wrist angle for part of the stroke. With a loose grip a bent shaft doesn't have an advantage.

If you didn't guess by now I would suggest getting another strait shaft Ikelos.

-Jason

I don't think that she is gripping tightly. ...though I am sometimes guilty of that.

She has developed tendinitis and other problems in both wrists from too much computer with poor ergonomics. She now is very careful about ergonomics.

She has limited paddling time on her new Greenland paddle, but so far the hand spacing and stroke seems to work better for her than a straight shaft euro blade.

Ty

[chetpk]

Now that I find myself needing to purchase another Ikelos (due to my disappearing paddle trick), I feel somewhat torn between bent & strait shaft. I have owned both and personally migrated from a bent to strait shaft 2 years ago after doing some extensive training with instructors prone to "strait only" shafts (we need not mention names). I now notice that some of the more aggressive paddlers that I find myself in the company of use the bent shaft. I think the main reason would be for better control in difficult situations. I admit that at least once every time I go out my hand will slip off my paddle shaft. This can be a regrettable situation if it occurs in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do on the other hand enjoy the lighter finesse of the strait shaft. There is also the ergonomic positioning to consider.

Would anyone like to add their feelings one way or the other before I take the leap.....again?

PS

I do have a 98% new Epic Mid Wing that I would sell to help off set the purchase of my new paddle if anyone is interested.

I picked up one of these Adventure Technology paddles at an L.L. Bean outlet, mainly because the price was right, but I do like their simple and lot less convoluted twist and turns that they put into their shaft to create their bent shaft paddle. It seems to split the difference between others' bent shaft designs and a straight shaft. Steve Scherrer claims it is the best all around paddle that he has used, but then again his company sells them so I would take that piece with a grain of salt. Their blade shape works well for general touring, but the Ikelos is probably better for the choppy water. They only offer one blade shape in two sizes with the OS blade being the bigger of the two. Mine is not the OS so don't know how that compares to other bigger blades.

http://www.atpaddle.com/product/157354/XCE...on_SL_Carbon_OS

[glil]

After switching from feathered blades to no feathering (and taking a class with Ben Lawry), I had MUCH less of a problem with tendinitis, which I was bothered with in my right wrist. My technique was the problem causing the tendinitis, but by not feathering the blades it made it much easier to correct. I've only used a straight shaft.

Gay

[djlewis]

Go straight!

And if paddling gives you tendinitis of the wrist or forearm, consider fixing yourself rather than the paddle.

There's good forward stroke technique, of course, like a lighter, fewer-finger grip on the paddle, and a straight wrist, with shoulder, elbow and hand aligned.

Also, I have found that a careful program of forward and reverse wrist curls clears up and keeps away any hint of wrist problems. That even fixed elbow tendinitis, aka tennis elbow, though I think it was related to kayaking rather than tennis, since I haven't played tennis in a lotta years.

Ask here or contact me for more details on wrist curls. It takes a few months to work up to a therapeutic level, but it's worth it, IMHO.

--David.

[NPSheehan]

Personally I like my shaft straight too and because it's also a small shaft "no Irish jokes please", it feels more secure when holding it with gloves on especially thick gloves in winter. I typically use a 30 degree feather with my Werner adjustable feather paddles. Although here is an interesting article on the pros and cons of both.

http://www.roguepaddler.com/choose2.htm

Neil

[subaruguru]

Well here's a vote for the bent Ikelos, my primary paddle for 3 years. Contrary to what's preferred by sone, I find that grabbing a bent shaft in a stressful situation EASIER as I can quickly get to a correct hand placement without even thinking about it nor looking. Certainly can't do that with my straight Midwing. (I've also been told that Greg Barton doesn't make a bent shaft both because it's pricey AND he simply doesn't like them.)

Having extensor carpal ulnar tendonitis on my right (control) wrist, there's no doubt that there's less wrist rocking (and yes, I don't overgrip) with a bent shaft. That's pretty obvious....

Re: slip

Interestingly my left (non-control) hand often slips on my straight Midwing, but never on the bent Ikelos, but I readily concede that this perhaps as well caused by the Epic's smooth glossy thinner shaft compared to the thicker, slightly textured Werner.

(The sticky NRS glove 1/2 price for $18 now quickly solved this problem without tape or wax, and is a pretty warm glove, too. I note that the Ikona winter glove I'm using now has palms covered partially with hard plastic grippers, but they're useless in cold water. Otherwise a nice 4.5mm neo glove available at dive shops. But this is for another thread.)

Early this year I started taking a yoga class, only now to confirm that flat-palmed weight-bearing exercises like Downward Facing Dog are completely contraindicated for those with thumb base arthritis...and maybe other wrist issues too! Took me a long time to accept that it was the damned yoga that was exacerbating this painful problem. Point is that addressing ergonomics, especially for those of us with aging joints and musculature is a serious issue.

For me, and I think many with arthritis, tendinitis, or ligament issues, the improved geometry of the bent shaft can be only a welcome good thing.

So now I'll try Pilates, as I'm told is MUCH nicer on the extremities' joints. We'll see....

[Deb Millar]

Now that I find myself needing to purchase another Ikelos (due to my disappearing paddle trick), I feel somewhat torn between bent & strait shaft. I have owned both and personally migrated from a bent to strait shaft 2 years ago after doing some extensive training with instructors prone to "strait only" shafts (we need not mention names). I now notice that some of the more aggressive paddlers that I find myself in the company of use the bent shaft. I think the main reason would be for better control in difficult situations. I admit that at least once every time I go out my hand will slip off my paddle shaft. This can be a regrettable situation if it occurs in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do on the other hand enjoy the lighter finesse of the strait shaft. There is also the ergonomic positioning to consider.

Would anyone like to add their feelings one way or the other before I take the leap.....again?

PS

I do have a 98% new Epic Mid Wing that I would sell to help off set the purchase of my new paddle if anyone is interested.

Bent or straight seems to be a matter of personal preference, rather than being a matter of being a "more aggressive" paddler or otherwise. Right from the get go, starting with a Camano through a Kallista and now a Cyprus, I've always used a straight, small grip (unless it's a Lendal) Werner paddle. If I find it slippery, I use wax.

Whatever works, works

Deb M

[jdkilroy]

It is definitely a matter of preference. There are plenty of very experienced paddlers out there that go either way and most of them that I have had the opportunity to chat with feel the same way; what ever works and feels comfortable.

Racing is a completely different ballgame and it is pointless to say that if racers do it one way that must be the best. The notion that there is only one right way to do something when the human body is involved is naieve at best.

Jon

[bob budd]

Greenland paddle. Straight shaft. No tendinitis.

Your mileage may vary.

[Bill Lord]

I was getting tendonitis with the straight shaft, changed to a bent shaft and the problem went away. While I think that exercises are good practice as well as good technique, you shouldn't have to do this just to solve a problem created by straight shafts. If you hold your arms out in front of you and relax, a straight shaft would not pass through your hands without turning your wrists. Ergonomically, it makes sense to use a bent shaft, however, personal preference and other reasons mentioned above may outweigh the advantages of ergonomics for some.

[PeterB]

Definitely personal preference: both have a proven track record among a wide variety of paddlers , so it would be a mistake to pick one over the other because of what someone else says they prefer . In other words, "Trust your feelings, Luke."

Straight shafts are less expensive than bent, and that might be a consideration.

[Pintail]

Ernie, <..Interestingly my left (non-control) hand often slips...> You obviously have not taken a class with Ben Lawry! Control hand? What's that?

I think this whole debate is academic: use whatever is most comfortable. Dealers such as NESC are <happy> to lend a demo. paddle so that you may try out both. (Well, Joel has always been happy to lend <me> one, that is!) I personally think that technique is the more important thing (specifically a <loose> grip on the shaft) -- I also have a weak right wrist, so I am aware of the problem that others may have; but so much depends on <how> you hold the paddle, doesn't it?

Those who are involved with good, old BCU will know -- their coaching is dssigned always to protect the body.

[Doug]

From "The Rogue Paddler" article Neil posted an attachment to earlier.

Straight Shaft vs. Bent Shaft Paddles

The debate over which paddle shaft type is better—straight or bent—may never be resolved. Why? Because both kinds of paddle shafts have advantages and disadvantages. One of the most common problems experienced by beginning paddlers (and also some experts) is pain and stiffness in the wrists and elbows. Such pain occurs when a paddler fails to rotate his or her torso throughout the stroke, or grips the paddle too tightly. A stiff, tight-gripped paddling style forces your wrists to bend and flex at unnatural angles during the beginning and end of each stroke. This can be combatted, of course, by making a conscious effort to rotate the torso and not grip the shaft so tightly. Of course, some of the more nervous or stressed-out paddlers on the water seem hard-wired to grip their shaft like a vice. If you're one of those people, a bent-shaft paddle may feel like a gift from heaven.

Essentially, the thinking behind bent-shaft paddles is that if you build a proper angle into the shaft at those places where the paddler is most likely to grip the shaft, it will significantly reduce how much the paddler's wrists need to flex during the basic forward stroke. For casual paddlers who only intend to go out pleasure paddling on fair-weather days, a bent-shaft paddle is probably ideal. But for advanced paddlers, I think the decision to switch to a bent-shaft is much more difficult. Personally, I prefer straight-shaft paddles because I think they are much more versatile. It may be that I'm just more accustomed to the straighter shaft, but I also like to move my hands around on the shaft a lot. Why? Well, for a number of reasons.

On windy days, when my kayak starts to weathercock, I like to off-center my grip on the shaft to create more paddling leverage on one side, effectively compensating for the turning effects of the wind. With a bent-shaft paddle, this technique would be uncomfortable because I would have to grip the bent shaft right where the awkward bends are located. Similarly, I perform some rolling and bracing techniques in the extended paddle position (with my hands significantly off-centered, again to create leverage) and the bent shaft gets in the way during these maneuvers, too. Finally, I find the bent shaft disorienting when an unexpected capsize occurs and requires me to set up for a roll. In my experience, the bent shaft makes it more difficult to determine the orientation of the paddle blades as I set up for the roll. Of course, like anything, these difficulties could probably be overcome with a little practice and a lot more familiarity with a bent-shaft paddle. Maybe I just don't have the patience. Whatever the reason, I remain dedicated to the straight shaft, and I generally recommend that paddlers learn to relax their grip on the paddle, rather than seek out a modified shaft, to correct the problem.

END

By the way, I did end up ordering another strait shaft Ikelos from Joel at New England Small Craft yesterday and I can't wait until it gets in. Thanks everyone for all the feedback. One more weekend with the Greenland Paddle. When the temps go down, I don't feel comfortable rock playing with the Greenland paddle and sprinting up to speed to catch waves can be frustrating from a dead stop as the Greenland paddle does not offer the same initial bite as a Euro Blade.

Doug

[bob budd]

Don't dismiss the Greenland paddle so quickly. A few of the clubs fastest paddlers paddle the way the creators meant it to be. They were admittedly making due with relatively small pieces of wood and otherwise limited resources. If you (or your wife) are handy you get a spoke shave and many 2x4s for the price of a Euro paddle.

[Doug]

Don't dismiss the Greenland paddle so quickly. A few of the clubs fastest paddlers paddle the way the creators meant it to be. They were admittedly making due with relatively small pieces of wood and otherwise limited resources. If you (or your wife) are handy you get a spoke shave and many 2x4s for the price of a Euro paddle.

Bob,

I am no stranger to Greenland paddles. I have a Carbon fiber paddle from "Superior Kayak"

http://www.superiorkayaks.com/superiorkayaks2009_004.htm

and John Peterson of Shamen Kayaks in California constructed one for me early this year.

http://shamankayaks.com/shaman/paddles.asp

I probably use them 60% of my paddling time and appreciate the advantages they offer.

[bob budd]

My comments were meant mostly for those who might think there are significant performance disadvantages inherent in the Greenland paddle from the posting.

Your thread was not really about Greenland paddles at all. Good luck with the new paddle.