tyson Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Several years ago when I first got into kayaking, LONG before I had ever heard of NSPN and all the recommendations for Kokatat products, I bought Stohlquist dry top. Sadly, these days it leaks. I'm not sure if I over trimmed the wrists (my hands kept going numb), the neck seal has developed a leak or it is just leaky. Does anyone have any suggestions on where/how to get it serviced? Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgr Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 http://www.drysuit-repair.com/ They have a drop off at the Kayak Centre in RI - free shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 tyson you could also bring it down to Osprey for replacement of your gaskets as well.... gaskets do come in sizes....good thing to find out which one fits you best without having to trim them.... personally i like the Stohlquist dry suits much more than kokatats....one of the big things was that Stohlquist uses a thicker gauge latex seals.....more comfortable and last longer..... rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Are either of the above able to test a dry-top for leaks? I really don't know that any of the seals are the problem. ...or more specifically, I want to be sure that it is getting fixed, rather than just worked on. I like the idea of sizing the wrist gaskets if those are what it needs. Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 peek at the gaskets...are there cracks??? immediate culprit.... take a gander at the seam tape....if it is curling a bit at the edges they might be the issue... a good thought would to be to drop a note to Stohlquist....and see if they can rehab it for you.... r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Are either of the above able to test a dry-top for leaks? I really don't know that any of the seals are the problem. ...or more specifically, I want to be sure that it is getting fixed, rather than just worked on. If you think the fabric may be leaking, you'll need to send it back to Stohlquist for testing. If it's a Gore-Tex garment, it should be covered under warranty. With other fabrics, you may not be so lucky, but they may cover it depending on the nature of the leak(s). I like the idea of sizing the wrist gaskets if those are what it needs. I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about finding the perfect size. Although there are a range of sizes available, if you have a neck over 16" or wrists larger than 6", you're probably going to need to trim your seals. I don't know why people get so worked up over this, as it's no big deal to trim seals, which you probably already know from your experience doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 I just did a test. I put a drinking glass in each wrist and a bowl in the neck. I then put a bunch of water in the dry-top from the tub. With 1-3 inches of water pressure, water would weep through the fabric. The neck gasket is a neoprene with a silver coating. The silver has worn, but other than that the whole thing looks like brand new! I've taken very good care of this thing. WTF!? Is there any sort of a wash-in treatment that would be useful for this or do I need to pony up for new gear? Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingsn Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I just did a test. I put a drinking glass in each wrist and a bowl in the neck. I then put a bunch of water in the dry-top from the tub. With 1-3 inches of water pressure, water would weep through the fabric. The neck gasket is a neoprene with a silver coating. The silver has worn, but other than that the whole thing looks like brand new! I've taken very good care of this thing. WTF!? Is there any sort of a wash-in treatment that would be useful for this or do I need to pony up for new gear? Thanks! Ty Hi Tyson, I was at Sea Kayak Georgia last week & they had a sale/close out on Stohlquist dry tops. As I remember they were $350 tops for $50. They are great to deal with, their # is 888 kayakga. Probably would be cheaper that a repair. Thanks, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I just did a test. I put a drinking glass in each wrist and a bowl in the neck. I then put a bunch of water in the dry-top from the tub. With 1-3 inches of water pressure, water would weep through the fabric. Not good! The neck gasket is a neoprene with a silver coating. The silver has worn, but other than that the whole thing looks like brand new! I've taken very good care of this thing. WTF!? Age can do it with some fabrics. UV exposure, sunscreen, ozone, etc. can all take a toll. Is there any sort of a wash-in treatment that would be useful for this or do I need to pony up for new gear? Wash-in treatments are temporary at best and only make water bead on the surface. If the fabric is leaking, they won't help much, if at all. As for what to do, as I mentioned before, if it's Gore-Tex, it's probably covered under warranty. If it's some other fabric, you are now the proud owner of a windbreaker with seals on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I was at Sea Kayak Georgia last week & they had a sale/close out on Stohlquist dry tops. As I remember they were $350 tops for $50. They are great to deal with, their # is 888 kayakga. Probably would be cheaper that a repair. I'll give them a call. Their web site was rather depressing and didn't really list any gear. Not good! Not good at all! Age can do it with some fabrics. UV exposure, sunscreen, ozone, etc. can all take a toll. It was kept in a dry basement out of the sun. There is no UV upside down and I'm not smart enough to wear sunscreen. ...don't need it upside down anyway. Wash-in treatments are temporary at best and only make water bead on the surface. If the fabric is leaking, they won't help much, if at all. That is what I was expecting to hear. I know they are temporary and suspected that they may not work in the presence of water pressure as apposed to just making rain run off. As for what to do, as I mentioned before, if it's Gore-Tex, it's probably covered under warranty. If it's some other fabric, you are now the proud owner of a windbreaker with seals on it. Its not Gore-Tex. It is some sort of a single layer with a silver coating on the inside. ...and the coating looks just fine. Its not worn off or visibly abused. I'll call Sea Kayak Georgia and see if they have some sort of a quick, cheap short term solution, but it looks like I need to get in touch with Suz. One of the fine folks in the Waldon Society said that she had a Stohlquist suit where the fabric started leaking. She now wears a Kokatat. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'll give them a call. Their web site was rather depressing and didn't really list any gear. Not good at all! It was kept in a dry basement out of the sun. There is no UV upside down and I'm not smart enough to wear sunscreen. ...don't need it upside down anyway. That is what I was expecting to hear. I know they are temporary and suspected that they may not work in the presence of water pressure as apposed to just making rain run off. Its not Gore-Tex. It is some sort of a single layer with a silver coating on the inside. ...and the coating looks just fine. Its not worn off or visibly abused. I'll call Sea Kayak Georgia and see if they have some sort of a quick, cheap short term solution, but it looks like I need to get in touch with Suz. One of the fine folks in the Waldon Society said that she had a Stohlquist suit where the fabric started leaking. She now wears a Kokatat. Cheers! Ty Brian is correct if the material itself is leaking, no value in repairing or putting new gaskets on. Personally I wouldn't bother even using as splash protection as it doesn't sound like it will do that very well either. Just curious, did you fill the suit inside out or right side out? Was the water seeping through after filling the inside? Try it the other way around and see if it keeps water OUT through the exterior of the fabric. If still seeping, contact Stolquist and see what they will do. As for me ever using Stolquist, nope, never did. I did have a British made Ravenspring which was waterproof but not very breathable in practice. They were an attractive price point (cheaper) suit when the pound was weak the the dollar strong. They also only had a front relief zip for women in their suits, no drop. And on the gasket sizing/trimming issue - I have the same problem and when I replace the wrist gaskets on my suit, I replace them with the "thick" conical shaped gaskets available special order from Kokatat. This allows me to trim to fit. Don't trim the wrist gaskets that are straight as that will cause more contact in a smaller surface area and will cause more nerve compression issues rather than less. Kokatat doesn't use these gaskets on all their suits as they feel that they are more prone to failure as they are less stretchy. So, if you need new gaskets and are sending in to Kokatat, they will use these only upon request. Osprey keeps a few on hand for replacements also. Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgr Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I just did a test. I put a drinking glass in each wrist and a bowl in the neck. I then put a bunch of water in the dry-top from the tub. With 1-3 inches of water pressure, water would weep through the fabric. The neck gasket is a neoprene with a silver coating. The silver has worn, but other than that the whole thing looks like brand new! I've taken very good care of this thing. WTF!? Is there any sort of a wash-in treatment that would be useful for this or do I need to pony up for new gear? Thanks! Ty lifetime warranty http://www.stohlquist.com/warranty.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 lifetime warranty http://www.stohlquist.com/warranty.php please return the item directly to Stohlquist WaterWare, with your proof of purchase (sales receipt) In order for any claim to be processed, warranty information must be on file, and have been sent no later than 30 days from date of purchase. I have none of the above. I also having a hard time feel that any effort put into this thing is other other than a short term fix. I really did take care of it. I suppose it is worth at least a quick email to them. Suz, I did run the water in the "wrong direction". I suppose I could quickly re-run the test with it inside-out. That had not occurred to me. However, the trickle I feel around my arm pit while doing a balance brace is consistent with my test results. Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgr Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have none of the above. I also having a hard time feel that any effort put into this thing is other other than a short term fix. I really did take care of it. I suppose it is worth at least a quick email to them. You've taken the time to fill it with water and post here. I would hope that you would send them an email or give them a call. Or work with the dealer who sold it to you in the first place. Incidentally - last month one of the people that I was paddling with worked for Palm/MTI. She said that in general they are very liberal with warranty replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 You've taken the time to fill it with water and post here. I would hope that you would send them an email or give them a call. Or work with the dealer who sold it to you in the first place. I sent an email to "my" dealer back when I originally posted. However, he hasn't responded. He is a seasonal operator who will provide year round service and has been very good to work with, but he is not always responsive or available during the "off season". This morning I have sent a polite email to Stohlquist explaining my situation. I even refrained from threatening that I'm going to test-paddle some Kokatat equipment. Incidentally - last month one of the people that I was paddling with worked for Palm/MTI. She said that in general they are very liberal with warranty replacements. Is Palm/MTI some sort of parent to Stohlquist? Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 This morning I have sent a polite email to Stohlquist explaining my situation. I've received a helpful sounding response with an RMA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgr Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Is Palm/MTI some sort of parent to Stohlquist? No, but they are a competitor so I imagine that they would have similar costs/policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 No, but they are a competitor so I imagine that they would have similar costs/policies. I just received a call from Stohlquist. They are warranty _replacing_ my dry-top. Obviously I would have preferred that it not fail in the first place, but stuff happens (and happened) and Stohlquist stood behind their product. I didn't think to ask what had caused it to leak while they were on the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spuglisi Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I just received a call from Stohlquist. They are warranty _replacing_ my dry-top. Obviously I would have preferred that it not fail in the first place, but stuff happens (and happened) and Stohlquist stood behind their product. I didn't think to ask what had caused it to leak while they were on the phone. That's great. It must have been a nice surprise to get the phone call. Good for Stohlquist for standing behind their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I believe Gore-Tex is just highly engineered teflon tape typically laminated between an outer layer and a wicking backing. Other materials employ molecular action vs. micro pores, e.g. Conduit. Others attempt the micro pore philosophy with other materials (Membrain) or are just cheaper copies of Gore-Tex (outfitter brands.) Yet others employed for different applications such as single wall tents. Different mouse traps in use. I would expect Gore-Tex to be waterproof in both directions, however more breathable in a particular one. I'm curious how Conduit can only work in one direction but have a mountaineering hardshell made of it and it is bomber. Mountain Hardwear doesn't make paddling gear so not important here. Just something I've wondered. DWR finishes are to keep the fabric from soaking and losing breathability when used in conjunction with a breathable laminate fabric - if the fabric is soaked it won't pass perspiration and it gets heavier too. Especially if the outer layer is nylon because it absorbs water. I don't know that I'd care so much in a paddling situation but re-treat my hiking rain jackets periodically since breathability is much more important when fighting gravity for hours. You can also put things in a dryer on low as the heat can reactivate the DWR finish up to a point, but check the care instructions and it wouldn't be a good idea for something with latex or neoprene seals. A tech wash goes a long way to remove stuff that funks up the beading action, like oils. Normally you'd do that before applying a wash-in or spray-on. Wash-in is supposed to be better unless there is a separate wicking layer. You want the wicking material to be hydrophilic, not bead up, so in that case you spray only the outside. Detergents act as a wetting agent so if you launder with your undies and towels you will be defeating the DWR. I would hand wash anyway in case there's residue in the washer, plus I don't need the extra wear and tear. My gear knows I love it It has its own bedroom after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I believe Gore-Tex is just highly engineered teflon tape typically laminated between an outer layer and a wicking backing. More correctly, Gore-Tex is a PTFE membrane that is laminated to an outer shell fabric and either has an inner laminated liner (3 layer Gore-Tex) or separate inner liner (2 layer Gore-Tex). I would expect Gore-Tex to be waterproof in both directions, however more breathable in a particular one. I'm curious how Conduit can only work in one direction but have a mountaineering hardshell made of it and it is bomber. Waterproof/breathable fabrics are bi-directional, though the inner and outer layers are designed to enhance the movement of moisture from the inside to the outside of the garment. They all rely on osmotic pressure - differences in humidity between the inside and outside of the garment - in order to move moisture. The greater the difference, the better they work. That's why they breathe very well when the air outside the garment is dry and poorly when the external humidity is high, such as when it's raining. DWR finishes are to keep the fabric from soaking and losing breathability when used in conjunction with a breathable laminate fabric - if the fabric is soaked it won't pass perspiration and it gets heavier too. Saturation of the outer fabric reduces breathability, but doesn't completely eliminate it. That's particularly important for dry suits and tops, since they all wet out at times. Although DWRs are better than they used to be, they're really not that durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Jim Stohlquist is great!!!! i have talked with him a few times about my gear (i use almost 100% Stohlquist) you must either have the FreeRyde top then.....there is also a shorty version called the Swicx that i wear all the time.....it has the same gaskets on the biceps..... The neck gasket is Titanium Coated neoprene....the fact that you wore the Ti off is amazing......and i do know that S. has different sizes of those gaskets too.... how is the return/warranty going? heard anything yet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Jim Stohlquist is great!!!! i have talked with him a few times about my gear (i use almost 100% Stohlquist) you must either have the FreeRyde top then..... Not sure, but the FreeRyde looks close. Mine didn't have any pockets. The neck gasket is Titanium Coated neoprene....the fact that you wore the Ti off is amazing...... Hmmm... I didn't think that I tried that hard! how is the return/warranty going? heard anything yet??? They said that a pressure test showed leaky fabric but didn't explain what might have caused it. When the jacket was newer, it kept me completely dry. I'm not sure how soon it will arrive, but they are sending me a new top, free of charge. ...then I get to go play with that lonely looking Anas in my garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 My gear knows I love it It has its own bedroom after all... My new dry-top finally arrived! ...now to find time in my busy schedule to get Peter's Anas wet with some bumpy water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 ummm...not certain how your last 6 words were supposed to read.............. so which top did they send you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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