skypix Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hi folks, thief on the West Coast Paddlers forum gave me your contact so I'm jumping in to say hello. WARNING: long-winded message ahead. Clear the decks! My name is Jim, I live in Old Chatham, NY, about 2 hours plus drive down the 90 from MA coast. I'm a transplanted Californian as of 2002 and still, shockingly, don't have any pals to play with. Well, except for my flight instructor I got my sport pilot license with last year, and he lives in Hartford. Mostly it's me and the spousal unit. Fortunately, she's as enthused about tandem paddling as I am. Three weeks ago at a little Adirondack lake we rented a plastic tandem and now I've got the building bug, big time. As in OCD big time. I bought a used 14' Acadia II plastic tandem tub for $450 10 days ago just to get some water time remainder of the summer, but I feel like I'm paddling through Karo syrup in that bucket, definitely won't do for the long haul. Plus it's a pain to haul around and hea-vy even for two. I've been reading up a lot, really a lot, obsessively a lot since I discovered the miracle of kit built and scratch built boats. I'm not a super woodworker but have built an airplane, several ultralight and hang glider aircraft, and am a pain in the fanny perfectionist way beyond my skill level, or perhaps because of that, so figured I should do alright with a strip boat, after first considering an S&G to get my feet wet then realizing I might as well go whole hog and build something really beautiful, like one of Nick Schade's gorgeous Guillemots or Rob Mack's North Star. The aesthetic possibilities of the strippers, as detailed a la mssrs. Schade, Moores, Mack et al, have turned my brain inside out. I can't stop mentally panting. Give me a doggie bone. All I want to do is read, get the shop ready, install heating, then retire and build all winter, after first trying to make up my mind about: two singles or a double? fast and tracky or shorter and wide or medium and tippy or...? Yikes. I'm in serious department store decision excitement overload. The challenge I'm facing right now is I have very little paddling experience so I'm going up next week to spend some time with a few of Rob Mack's boats, maybe Vaclav's too at One Ocean if he's amenable, but that's all I know to do so far. I should learn to do a roll, eh? Just not sure why (haven't read that section yet I guess...capsize recovery without panicking/exiting the boat?) The type of boating experience I want: stable enough I guess for comfortable quiet glides with wifey (the tandem question looms large here, we get along great but still...what if I want to go out with some of you folks or some lake stuff closer to home, and she can't/doesn't want to go? Plus I want a single kayak. I want one. Must...get...shop...ready...) Sorry, I am seriously brain numb by now, was up until 4:30 last night (chocolate partly to blame) reading, reading, reading, driving myself nuts, and now you too I expect. I clearly need to learn to paddle. I'm pretty athletic for a 64 year old, 5'11", 170 lbs., still fly hang gliders but thinking of giving it up, it's hard on the body. I might want to get into doing some sea paddling. Want to keep that door open. Did some moderate rapids on the Green and Yampa in Utah/Colorado years ago, lots of fun but i'm really more gravitating at this point to quiet-water and probably some light surf excursions once I'm skilled a bit. I want some stability for photography (I'm a pro aviation photographer and nature photography/aviation writer). Mostly, I want the perfect boat, of course, that will do everything without compromises. Yeah right. I do want to be able to go fast for long paddles. I want to explore! This beautiful coast and I hardly know it except by car! What a waste. After so many years up and down the gorgeous coast of California, soaring over it, driving up and down it, I know "your" coast has got to be spectacular too. Does any of this rambling make sense? Focus, must focus: Okay, questions: any recommendations for some instruction? I'm a pilot and former actor, so I take direction well. Any ideas, other than Laughing Loon, where I'm going next week, where I can paddle some wooden boats to get some idea what the hell I'm getting myself into? Can you say hell on this board? Thanks for listening, I figured I'd save 20 or so back and forth questions by barfing it all up in one intro, hope I didn't wear anybody out, and looking forward to getting to know people here and contributing in some way down the road, once I get my sea legs (sea butt?) under me. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glil Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 My suggestion is to buy 2 singles vs another tandem. You may get along great now... Gay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 My suggestion is to buy 2 singles vs another tandem. You may get along great now... Gay Jim, Welcome! Anyone who can say " I figured I'd save 20 or so back and forth questions by barfing it all up in one intro, ..." on the board is more than welcome! Do you have an email address? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi folks, thief on the West Coast Paddlers forum gave me your contact so I'm jumping in to say hello. WARNING: long-winded message ahead. Clear the decks! My name is Jim, I live in Old Chatham, NY, about 2 hours plus drive down the 90 from MA coast. I'm a transplanted Californian as of 2002 and still, shockingly, don't have any pals to play with. Well, except for my flight instructor I got my sport pilot license with last year, and he lives in Hartford. Mostly it's me and the spousal unit. Jim Welcome! I would say you have been bitten and perhaps had too much coffee prior to posting:) Either way - I second Gay's recommendation to buy two singles. I would suggest you buy them now so that you can take advantage of the lovely fall weather and don't miss a day pining away about what to buy. You will most likely buy the wrong boat the first time around but that's MUCH better than BUILDING the wrong boat the first time around. Having a boat will allow you to figure out what you want in a boat. If you can find a couple of good sea kayaks around used, you will sell them next year (or after you finish your ideal boat) for near about what you paid for them. As for building, any of Nick's designs are really lovely both to paddle and to behold. As for others, I don't spend much time in wooden boats so would be hard pressed to say. Perhaps some of the boat builders in the crowd will chime in. Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thanks Glil, everybody seems to say that, must be true. Although we get along great...and i've got a bigger paddle. Thanks Kevin B, I was getting worried I'd worn out my welcome before I got one. Welcome! I would say you have been bitten and perhaps had too much coffee prior to posting:) Close! Not enough sleep and yerba mate. And definitely bitten. Thanks Suz for that perspective, hadn't considered that. We have a plastic boat though, for 2 weeks. I already look forward to passing it along to the next happy owner. It's not a sleek tandem...but ....(don't want to offend anybody)...it's plastic. I want to make something beautiful that I'll always be proud of. Really do. Plus I know, once I've paddled a few, talked to/read a few dozen/hundred/thousand people, I'll build exactly the right boat. It will find me. Anyone have any suggestions on where I can get some schoolin'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 . Thanks Suz for that perspective, hadn't considered that. We have a plastic boat though, for 2 weeks. I already look forward to passing it along to the next happy owner. It's not a sleek tandem...but ....(don't want to offend anybody)...it's plastic. I want to make something beautiful that I'll always be proud of. Really do. Anyone have any suggestions on where I can get some schoolin'? If you are REALLY bitten, you will end up with more than one boat (don't ask how I know!). A 14' plastic tandem is about enough to make me want to give up kayaking so if that has gotten your interest peaked, you will do well to try a few boats. End of season is harder to try boats but there are loads of local places to check with - some have instruction, some don't and just sell boats. BUT you are in NY, so I am harder pressed to make recommendations there. So, just head north and make your way to a few shops:) Keep in mind that for sea kayaking you will want a boat that is over 16'. Buy a used fiberglass boat, either from a shop or individual and you have a start. That way you can paddle while you build. Little known secret , MOST boat builders are not as much into the paddling. Most boat paddlers are not as much into the building. It is basically just a decision about how you want to spend your recreation time. I know of a few people that break that mold but not too many! Signed, She who has many boats and much gear and not enough time...AKA Suz P&H Cetus LV (new sweet ride) P&H Capella 161 (all time favorite) NDK Triton (the ultimate tandem) Old Fenn Tarpon Surf Ski (for going faster) Mega Jester (for surf) Pyranha Ammo (for white water) And looking for a canoe or two as one won't do!!! PS I always wanted a stitch and glue like Cheri Perry's black stealth boat - forgot the designer, just remember the rolls it was trained for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 see skypix...told ya you would get responses!!!!! btw: i had also forgotten to mention Nick Schade of Guillemot kayaks is just a bit south east of you in Connecticut as well..... rob/thief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Little known secret , MOST boat builders are not as much into the paddling. Most boat paddlers are not as much into the building. Thanks Suz, , man that is so true! I know from experimental and model airplane building that I get excited, build something, exhaust myself, then don't get into the actual activity anywhere near as much as I was so dang sure I would. So I'll have to keep noodling on that. My wife being interested may change that, I do get tired of doing everything alone and she and I are real pals who have a good time together whatever we do. I think you're right, buying that 14 was a mistake. Definitely great to leave by the water, if you have some, for when the kids come visit, and that's about it. Would have been happier to buy an 18' tandem for us...too late now! I'm putting it up for sale, if it goes I'll get a longer/narrower twin for the fall. There's a good example of getting overexcited and not doing enough research/test paddling first. Thanks for the links and thoughts on schoolin' and stuff, much obliged. see skypix...told ya you would get responses!!!!! ...i had also forgotten to mention Nick Schade Thanks thief, you were right. Fun board. Next time though I think I'll break my "intro" into more digestible chapters, I kinda over-ralphed on that first post. The curse of being a writer/photographer for a living I 'spose. Good to know about Nick Schade, I'll contact him, would be worth it just to see those beautiful kayaks. I'm going through a couple of his books and greatly admire the sensuous lines of his creations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Jim- Atlantic Kayak Tours is an excellent shop and instructional center on the Hudson south of you. You might want to contact them regarding lessons and boats. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Jim- Atlantic Kayak Tours is an excellent shop and instructional center on the Hudson south of you. You might want to contact them regarding lessons and boats. Phil Thanks Phil! I'll check 'em out right now, beats working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Atlantic Kayak Tours has a Norrie location which is not that far from you. One of the coaches there (Alan) has built kayaks. It is a great location for instruction, for trying boats, and to find out about paddlers and building boats. There is quite a pod of paddlers in the Albany area. Some of us do both sea and ww kayaking. The Albany ADK chapter paddles can be a good way to meet paddlers. There is some good ww paddling near you and for when we can't get to the coast there is Lake George or Champlain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi, Once you get bitten it's an itch that requires much scratching, and the only relief is a boat or two (or three or four...) You've gotten some good recommendations for boats, outfitters, dealers and instructors in your area, plus places to paddle and people to paddle with. As someone who has been at this game for 6 years, some of the boats my husband and I have found to scratch the itch are: Nigel Dennis Kayak (NDK) ExplorerLV and RomanyLV (my boats) Valley Kayak Products (was known as Valley Canoe Products or VCP for years) Avocet and Pintail (husband's boats) Pyranha Inazone 220 and now a Burn S (small) for surf and WW (mine) Pyranha Inazone 230 and now a Burn S for surf and WW (husband) Mega BullittS for surf (mine) Mega Impulse and Mega Jester for surf (husband) One Wenonah Canoe I know it looks like we've got some repetition going on, but the Inazones and the Impulse are for sale. In the past we've owned Current Design Slipstreams, a Wilderness System TempestPro 165, P&H Capella, Vela and a Bahiya (for sale), and a skin-on-frame (SOF) that I built and sold. Notice there is no tandem or, as it's called sometimes, a divorce boat. As you can see, that's a lot of anti-itch lotion, past and present. Good luck and most of all, have fun. Deb M The reason I've included the manufacturers of the various boats is not to name drop but to familiarize you with the various makers of the various kayaks out there. There are a lot of boats, not always as lot of time and every bit of info helps when you first get addicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You're more than welcome here! Also, you're not far from Albany NY, and there;s a community of experienced kayakers there who can help steer you towards boats, instructors, places to paddle etc. I can PM you some names if you request. "If a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." -E. B. White Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Once you get bitten it's an itch that requires much scratching, and the only relief is a boat or two (or three or four...) I'm finding that rash gets worse with time. Right now I'm on a collision course with adding a SOF to the currently small and deficient collection of boats that we have. Skypix, I'd have to echo the recommendations for solo boats. ...I and _LOVE_ our tandem. I'm currently in a situation where I have I tandem that is a blast and a solo boat that is a POS for everything except what I originally bought it for; a down river camping trip on the Allagash. There are things I want to do and things I want to learn that my solo boat is not appropriate for. The tandem isn't appropriate for a lot of the skills learning because there is an other person in the boat with you also trying to learn the same skill. You really need to do that in your own boat and then apply those skills to a tandem. I'm also stuck in my crappy solo boat on any kayaking trip that Emilie doesn't come on. I'd also like to echo recommendations for just getting boats now. You will gain experience and learn tons about what you want to build. Build a solo first. It will be faster, easier and cheaper than building a tandem. ...and you know you won't be happy with the first one anyway. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 "I should learn to do a roll, eh? Just not sure why (haven't read that section yet I guess...capsize recovery without panicking/exiting the boat?)" Yes you should learn to roll. The sooner in your paddling you learn this basic skill the easier it will be for you. There are many reasons to learn to roll. The first is safety. A paddler is nearly always safer in a boat than out of a boat. The quickest and safest capsize recovery is a roll. Another is that as you learn other skills such as bracing and sculling, you will master them more easily if capsizing is not an ordeal. Another is that it is the quickest way to cool off when overheated paddling. Another is that it is fun! BTW, there is a very real reason why tandem kayaks are called divorce boats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Wow, I didn't realize I'd gotten all these responses, thanks so much everybody, what a great group! Deb, thanks for that, that's quite a list. Roger on the "no divorce boat". I'm hearing that a lot. No point in tempting fate, eh? Plus my SU (spousal unit) is independent minded. ONce she's had a taste of solo paddling, she'll be out there sanding with me, I'll bet. Atlantic Kayak Tours has a Norrie location which is not that far from you....(Alan) has built kayaks.... The Albany ADK chapter paddles can be a good way to meet paddlers... Lake George or Champlain. Super, thanks wilsoj2, I've contacted them, will prob. do a half-day Norrie tour Sat. Also will ck out Albany, hadn't had any luck finding local paddlers yet. Love Lakes George/Champlain. Also thanks for the insight on rolling. Sounds like fun, being upside down in an airplane is fun too. You're more than welcome here! Also, you're not far from Albany NY, and there;s a community of experienced kayakers there who can help steer you towards boats, instructors, places to paddle etc. I can PM you some names if you request. "If a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." -E. B. White Thanks much PeterB, PM to local paddlers would be much appreciated. I like the quote by White too, works for me. I've always felt that way about flying - and still do. Tyson, thanks for that perspective! Keep on scratching. We've got the plastic twin tubby, that works for now. I've pretty much decided to build a solo, learn the skills in solo boats, pass them on to her, share the solo with her, build another solo if she's jazzed enough, which I think she will be, then...well, one wave at a time, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 share the solo with her, Don't depend on that. A boat that is good for you may or may not fit her size or paddling style. Emilie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 exactly. Sizewise, stylewise or weightwise ;-) Don't depend on that. A boat that is good for you may or may not fit her size or paddling style. Emilie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Don't depend on that. A boat that is good for you may or may not fit her size or paddling style. Emilie thanks Emilie, she's my height, but lighter, I'll send her out with some sandbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 She will appreciate all the decision making. thanks Emilie, she's my height, but lighter, I'll send her out with some sandbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 She will appreciate all the decision making. Many are the ways a kayak can lead to divorce. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 thanks Emilie, she's my height, but lighter, I'll send her out with some sandbags. I would skip the sandbags. That's like loading a boat for camping, it paddles but it is no longer playful. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 "I might want to get into doing some sea paddling." If you can get away the weekend after Labor Day, the Downeast Sea Kayak Symposium in Bar Harbor is a good introduction to some of the best paddling, paddlers, and coaches anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypix Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 She will appreciate all the decision making. our usual decision process: What do you think? I don't know what do you think? I don't know, whatever you think is fine with me. I think whatever you want to do then. Really? Sure, whatever you think we should do. Okay. Well, let's do two singles then, alright? (Pause) I was really leaning toward a tandem. Okay. Then... A tandem? Are you sure? Well... Whatever you think. ...and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 our usual decision process: Classic! That's great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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