And for the off season...

[Suz]

For only $1300, you can work on your stroke over the winter:

http://www.pogies.com/speedstroke/home.html

Suzanne

[markstephens]

Off season? I thought that was the three months that ends on Labor Day weekend. We can have the water back after that.

[Suz]

I am just starting to look forward to winter paddling now that we are in September. Hoping for a mild winter this year but I really want to paddle when it is snowing. Last year I didn't get the opportunity so will definitely fit it in this year. I think it might be like paddling in the fog where the stillness surrounds you.

Suzannd

[Wayne Smith]

Actually, it's even quieter than fog if there's no wind --- a unique experience. Makes me want to sit in front of a fireplace with a nice drink afterwards....

[ccarlson]

You know, for $1300 I would think that some inventive kayaker could come up with some sort of heated flexible plastic bubble that could be affixed to a standard sea kayak for totally comfy Winter use. Maybe a tuliq with some king of cockpit heater, etc.

Hmmm, could there be a contest here? :-)

[Suz]

OMG, I am getting claustrophobic just THINKING about this!

All last winter, I didn't get cold paddling once - coldest was about 15 degrees with ice forming on the side of the boat away from the sun. BUT, I do remember a day in June that I was paddling along thinking how tired of winter paddling I was and couldn't wait for summer!

Suzanne

[scamlin]

Actually, when you're in front of the fire, fire up the movie at the link and look at the mechanics of the stroke. This is a good object lesson for a forward stroke, one you can actually see because it's not inside the boat.

Points to Note:

Knees pumping

Torso rotation--check the shoulders

Subtle rocking and dipping of hips--driven by knees and rotation

Straight wrists--neither laterial bending or rolling

While elbows are bent slightly, they do not flex during the stroke

Blade exit to the side, not back

Only slight critique is that blade entry is back behind the knees, rather than out by the toes where it belongs

Good mechanics whether you are racing or touring

Scott

[djlewis]

Actually, I think he is putting the blade in not far from the toes. The camera angle makes that a bit hard to see, but look closely at the relationship of the tip of the "blade" to the "bulkhead". What is missing, perhaps, is the little jab forward upon entry to make sure the blade is extended fully. Is that what you mean?

Of course, without an actual waterline, the true point of entry is a bit ambiguous. If the boat is sitting quite low, for example, then I think the blade is entering the water at the toes.

You can also try right-clicking the image and then turning off the "play" setting to freeze the action at various points.

--David.

[Paul Sylvester]

The way the blade swings out to the side looks more like a wing paddle stroke. But I still have trouble with my forward stroke. Perhaps this is one of the things I am doing wrong.

Ken or Andrew, any ideas on the end of a wing stroke VS the end of the standard Euro stroke.

It is a great showing of the body dynamics, seems you want to be a little loose in the boat for good hip movement.

[scamlin]

I don't have the race experience, so I'll defer to the experts on the wing stroke.

But I have been taught that regardless of style, you should remove the blade from the water when it is about even with the hips--a lot sooner than most paddlers do. The reason is that there is very little additional forward propulsion after the hips, particularly as most paddlers are lifting the blade at that point. The resistance of the paddle feels like it is adding a lot to the speed of the boat, but if you observe other paddlers doing it, you will see they are in effect merely lifting about a gallon of water straight up into the air. Not only is this wasted motion, it actually is pulling the boat deeper into the water, increasing the underwater profile of the boat and the accompanying drag. The bobbing motion may also create some turbulence.

Other paddlers sort of spear the blade downward at an angle to the rear or hook the paddle in towards or even under the boat. Again, it feels effective, but has little or possibly a detrimental effect on forward motion of the boat.

JP, the guru instructor at MIKCO several years ago taught us to flick the paddle out to the side by swinging the arms from the shoulder without flexing the elbows, rather than lift the blade up (which can be done only by bending the elbows). This works with either a fairly high angle shaft or a more relaxed 45 degree shaft. JP used to coach the Welsh national racing team, so I've always assumed this was a sort of wing paddle influenced racing technique, though adapted to the euro paddle. All I know is that it works as a fast touring stroke.

The real propulsion is in the first foot or so of the stroke, particularly if you reach way forward by the toes and get the blade all the way in the water. Of course, you need a lot of torso rotation to do this, but that's another story...

Hope this helps. Ken? Andrew?

[Paul Sylvester]

I agree with pulling the blade out by the hips, many people keep the blade in the water far to long. I am still stuck on the idea that neither hand should go over the centerline of the boat, got that from and old DH class. Tried this variation on the weekend and liked it.Still learning............

[djlewis]

In the excellent forward stroke class that he and Karen Knight gave recently, Bob Foote suggested a variation on "out of the water by the hips" which makes sense to me. It's basically "stop pulling by the hips."

In other words, it's OK if the blade stays in the water a bit longer as long as you're not pulling any more. That gives you the freedom to get it out of the water more "naturally' rather than rushing to pick it up before it's comfortable.

--David.

[rick stoehrer]

off season? what is this term "off season" you keep mentioning?

winter is a time of quiet. you can hear the snow fall, the slushy ice jostle about as the water slops around. you can feel in your nose how brisk the air is, the utter lack of moisture not frozen, you can smell the snow, the cold, your wooly hat....the goretex makes crisp noises and the paddle feels marvelous. you can be out on the water and feel so alone in all of that....you can see and hear the critters along the bank and the surface of the water; it's like they've come to see you to affirm that the world really is alive, that something has survived the blanket of cold too. it's like a secret you don't share with anyone, all the sweeter for the knowing that ONLY you know.....

i wax romantic....but i like winter.

of course, if i had a child, his/her name would be gore-tex fleece stoehrer but whatever.....

[binks]

Scott,

You've pretty much described it. I've been working on my forward stroke for a long time and I'm pretty sure I don't have it right yet (this can surely be the only explanation as to why I don't win more), but...

Absolutely, out by the hips. Just make sure the catch is far enough forward (i.e. at the toes) to keep a good power-phase length. Arms held more straight and forward help with this (and encourage rotation).

The paddle is more vertical in a racing stroke cf. touring stroke - less stability from the blade but there's reduced water lifting (however, wings feel more stable for a given shaft angle).

The bobbing motion you describe can also be generated by lifting the boat if the blade angle is too horizontal during the catch - but as you describe above, the resistance on the paddle feels good, so you get the wrong impression about the efficiency of the stroke.

Andrew

[Guest guest]

Like Andrew, I've also spent most of the past 8 months working on and being coached on nothing but forward stroke in an ICF K-1 and wing paddle. I'm not sure how it relates to sea kayaks and the traditional euro paddle. The fact is with a wing as it travels well off to the side it tends to come out about the hip line without paying much attention to it. I have been taught to just let it follow through and not exagerate the exit as this will set you up for a good forward catch. I remember the quick exit being coached back in the late 70's, but they found it to have a breaking effect and dropped it. Again, not sure how this movement works with a euro, but after you develop a wing type stroke it will affect or effect the way you use a euro.

“The Barton Mold” is a book on racing and Greg Barton‘s development to become probably the greatest sprint and marathon flatwater paddler in the world ever. This book also covers the development of technique over 50 years, from the first feathered blades, to spoons (Euro), and to wings (also a Euro invention). All these developments were the result of abandoning convention to search for faster strokes that contradicted “the way to do it” thinking that tends to arrest development. The book explains the mechanics of the "old euro stroke" vs. “the wing stroke“.

It’s a very interesting book for anyone who paddles and not just for flatwater racing. The Barton Mold http://www.epicpaddles.com/products/accessories/books.htm

Below is a good slow-motion racing stroke video using a wing in ICF K-1 Note the hands crossing all the way over, the straighter lower arm, the way the paddle travels well away, etc all the stuff that makes a good racing stroke. Rotation is down on the seat under the butt, not just at the shoulders. You often see people move their shoulders a little and even turn their head from side to side and they think they are rotating but they are not.

http://home.comcast.net/~abbycooper/Brunett.mpeg

[scamlin]

I too was taught early on to not cross the center line of the kayak with the upper hand, but multiple coaches have worked to undo that advice. However, there is a grain of truth in the old school teaching: not crossing the center line is a indirect way to limit paddle travel past the hips. So the effect of crossing the center line depends on what the paddle blade is doing in the meanwhile: if it's traveling out to the side for follow through and an exit, then fine. If it's traveling back and up or back and under the boat, then it's not so effective.

To extend Andrew's point about shaft angle: I find the side exit works both for a touring stroke (less than 45 degrees) as well as a high angle racing (or fast touring) stroke. I'm curious if others observe the following effect: on the high-angle strokes, I find my shaft stays at the same angle and sweeps sideways for the last foot or so of the stroke. To make this work, both arms are swinging in parallel to the side from the shoulders and the upper hand definitely crosses the centerline. I'm thinking this helps keep the paddle plade closer to an optimum angle (vertical and perpendicular to the stroke but angling out away from the hull). I can't help noticing this motion looks suspiciously like a wing stroke.

The point about exit being a natural extension of follow through is, I think, the correct concept rather than a flick (as I had posted). I have had coaches teach the flick by dropping the upper hand; it gets the blade out of the water at the hips, but is less than optimum for positioning the blade for the catch on the next stroke. I think you want the entry of the blade as vertical as possible while still being out in front as possible (for the power phase Andrew pointed out), something that you can't do with the now on-side hand low as a result of the flick on the previous stroke. So as the upper hand transitions to the on-side, power hand, it stays relatively high--just below shoulder level in my experience--so it is in a good position to come down for the catch on the next stroke. If you start the catch with the on-side hand low, you either have to raise it again, take a fairly short stroke with entry by the knees or suffer a relatively spashy horizontal entry. Am I on the right track?

For those who have used the wing paddle, how is it different from what has been described in this thread?

[Guest guest]

Scott that really does sound like a wing type stroke you are doing. You might get a wing paddle if for nothing else but to experiment with.

You would enjoy reading the Barton Mold..it describes in great detail much of the ideas you write about here.

[binks]

> So as the upper hand transitions to the on-side,

>power hand, it stays relatively high--just below shoulder

>level in my experience--

Keeping the hand high was the most consistant advice I got and also the most difficult aspect of changing to a racing stroke. I move the hand across horizontally at eye level. When I get tired the hand will tend to drop toward the end of the stroke and Alex will tend to shout at me.

One a personal note: Exiting the blade at the hip and away from the boat also leaves you in a much better position to go for a low brace (rather than blade swung in close and behind you) - a point that I illustrate with gusto when on a surfski in big beam seas (of 8" or more).

>For those who have used the wing paddle, how is it different

>from what has been described in this thread?

Not very different at all. Shout if you want to try one of ours for a while - it's satisfying feeling a wing blade catch - it's just a bow rudder gets very interesting.

Binks