Rick Forzese Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Does any one have a suggestion on how to lock your kayak to your vehicle to deter thief when you are away them. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spuglisi Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Does any one have a suggestion on how to lock your kayak to your vehicle to deter thief when you are away them. Thanks, Rick check out "lasso locks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPARSONS Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Does any one have a suggestion on how to lock your kayak to your vehicle to deter thief when you are away them. Thanks, Rick I live 100 yards from South Boston High School and my kayak stays on my roof from Easter until Thanksgiving, locked with a Lasso lock. Someone who really wanted it would still be able to get it, of course, but it certainly deters drunks and teenagers. This is the third season I've kept it locked on the roof with no horror stories. Meanwhile, my next door neighbor's car was stolen from just a few parking spots away. I guess its easier to escape with a car than a kayak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancysan Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Does any one have a suggestion on how to lock your kayak to your vehicle to deter thief when you are away them. Thanks, Rick Check out the kayak lasso system-- I think Harmony and several others make versions. Nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I use The Lasso. It is thick cable, and uses loops on the ends to secure around the bow and stern vs. needing an attachment point to the boat directly. I also use it to secure my boat to the supports under my house, so it pulls double duty. Triple if you use bow and stern tie downs when transporting, since you can forgo them when your boat is locked to the rack itself with little wiggle room to come off. I've never had my boat slip in my Jbars but on long trips, especially super highway sections, the added peace of mind knowing the whole rack would have to rip off before the boat can fly away is nice. More expensive than it needs to be, like everything else, but I like it a lot and trust it as a deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I use J cradles for my boat and a regular 6' bike cable/lock through the roof rack and through the seat hanger of the boat. IMO the only potential disadvantage to the lasso lock systems is if you get sloppy and lock it in such a way that it can be slipped off the end of the boat. But you can always rig the lasso loops around the rack (or pole, fence etc) and run the cable through the seat hanger or other solid part of the boat. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzert Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Someone who really wanted it would still be able to get it, of course, but it certainly deters drunks and teenagers. They are not exactly as fenceable as a portable gps. I can picture the thief trying to get through the door of a local pawn shop with 18 feet of fiberglass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Triple if you use bow and stern tie downs when transporting, since you can forgo them when your boat is locked to the rack itself with little wiggle room to come off. I've never had my boat slip in my Jbars but on long trips, especially super highway sections, the added peace of mind knowing the whole rack would have to rip off before the boat can fly away is nice. Please don't rely on the lasso racks instead of bow/stern lines. Recently heard of two racks pulling off the vehicles and Jason had one of his front supports on the factory rails shear off. One incident was in rush hour on the NY Thruway. The rack with boats managed to lift off intact and land on the road behind and the semi trailer traveling behind had to change lanes to miss it. The boats managed to survive and no one was hurt. Bow lines in particular are helpful as they keep the bow down and the pressure off the rack. They also let you know if something is amiss on the rack. I have seen many a boat wander off the rack when driving throughout New England. A bow line will act as an indicator of what is happening up above. If it isn't where you started, pull over and check out the straps. Perhaps I am a bit cautious when it comes to racks but one of my first instructors knew of a friend whose boat came off and killed a motorcyclist traveling behind. I will second the Lasso Lock. While I don't normally lock my boats to the car, I did borrow Sal's for a trip down south this winter as I hear the 95 corridor area down south is notorious for boat thefts. I used the lock when I was sleeping overnight at a hotel in the Virginia area. Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thief Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 another VERY important thing to check into is: does your vehicle insurance cover your boat? I have adjusted my insurance so that it does............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 another VERY important thing to check into is: does your vehicle insurance cover your boat? I have adjusted my insurance so that it does............ Hi Thief: I'm interested in how you adjusted your vehicle insurance to cover your boats. Every time we mention Insurance in the same sentence as kayaks and gear, our agent turns an odd shade of pale and changes the subject. Since the number of boats plus the paddles plus the gear is getting out of hand, albeit nicely, we'd like to have better coverage of the fleet and its many acessories. Getting back to the topic at hand: We've used Lasso Locks AND we always use tie-downs (ALWAYS, although I guiltily admit that it wasn't always so). While we've never had a problem with boats going missing when we've stayed at a motel on a road trip, we did Lasso Lock our surf boats when we went down south this winter. After all, 9+ feet of FG/Kevler is a lot more portable than 16 feet of FG NDK or VKP kayak. Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingsn Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Does any one have a suggestion on how to lock your kayak to your vehicle to deter thief when you are away them. Thanks, Rick Here is what I do. I have a Thule rack with locks which lock it to the car. I then use a Master Lock 3' cable which I loop through itself around one of the feet of the rack. The other end I loop through the seat hanger & secure w/ a pad lock. I feel that this is more than enough to keep the average yahoo w/ a PU truck from grabbing it. And if their are more boats around, it may just get them to look for another boat (sorry if you didn't lock yours). If someone really wants it, any system is defeatable. I always thought that if I had to leave it on the roof over night, say @ a motel I would buy an motion sensing alarm that is meant to hang from a door knob (Ace Hardware for about $15) & set it in the cockpit. When the car or boat moves, it goes off. I have always been able to fit an 18 footer in a motel room. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Forzese Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 check out "lasso locks" Thanks. These look like just what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Sylvester Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Few years back on 95 in Peabody I saw two cute little rec boats all fastened to their racks laying in the breakdown lane...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It would be very difficult for my rack to come off. It isn't a factory rack bolted to the roof, nor is it a typical Thule/Yakima that rests on feet and clamps to the door jam. There would have to be some serious impact to take the rack off because of the way the car is designed to take this specific rack, and the securing mechanism it uses. If it really bothers people I can look at it again, but if I'm not confident the line won't be a potential hazard I'm not going to use one. There wasn't a secure way to attach a line and I don't want to drive over it if it pops off. That would cause huge problems and the potential was very real. I can probably put the tow eye on and see how that works. I'm not being lazy; I don't want to lose my boat any more than someone wants to get nailed by it. I know how my rack works and that's why I bought it. I'm extremely particular in the choices I make. Sometimes the most sensible thing isn't the conventional but speaking up about the known accidents is good. The more information and debate the better. I don't have any good place on my kayak to attach a cable, so I really have to use a Lasso. Whatever I did to try to create an attachment point would probably be the easiest way for them to defeat the cable. For my particular variables it is the best if not only option I have for security. Very quick and simple, but as noted above you need to make sure you don't leave slack that would allow someone to delasso one end. Regardless of what you use you should look for a way someone can defeat it, including taking the whole rack off. In my case that means breaking a window and opening all the doors. Hopefully someone would notice that going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 There wasn't a secure way to attach a line and I don't want to drive over it if it pops off. That would cause huge problems and the potential was very real. I can probably put the tow eye on and see how that works. I'm not trying to debate your other points. However, for those that would like to use a bow line and can't figure out how to attach one, look around the edges inside your engine bay just under the hood. Find a spot to tie a loop of cord/rope that can come up between the hood and fender. When not in use, open the hood and drop the loops inside. When you want them, they are quick to access and make very secure attach points for bow lines. We now use a Subaru for carrying our boats around, but prior to that we used our Honda Fit. It really didn't have anything external to tie to. We had more than one boat to carry and so the single point "tow eye" wasn't really an option. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/m1ncV...feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0gnaN...feat=directlink Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Secure your bow and stern lines -- which are required to minimize wind loading on the racks as Suz stated -- to the tow points on the front and rear of the car. The tow points may be screw-in bolts or permanent fixtures -- varies from car to car. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't have any good place on my kayak to attach a cable, so I really have to use a Lasso. You're seat doesn't have cheek plates that you could run a cable behind? I'm not questioning your use of lasso cables (I have some and they work well) but with most boats you have the option of running a cable behind one or both cheek plates, then around the rack. It's a cheaper, if less convenient solution than lasso cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spuglisi Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'm interested in how you adjusted your vehicle insurance to cover your boats. Every time we mention Insurance in the same sentence as kayaks and gear, our agent turns an odd shade of pale and changes the subject. Since the number of boats plus the paddles plus the gear is getting out of hand, albeit nicely, we'd like to have better coverage of the fleet and its many acessories.My homeowners insurance covers my boats and equipment under the personal property provision ( I confirmed this with my current and previous agents they both felt it was pretty standard) of course a deductible applies...in my case $500 but it's better than taking a total loss. The coverage applies to theft and vandalism not on the water mishaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Tod Wright uses these Lockable Tie Downs and seems to like them. http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/product....89/prodid/24258 -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It would be very difficult for my rack to come off. It isn't a factory rack bolted to the roof, nor is it a typical Thule/Yakima that rests on feet and clamps to the door jam. There would have to be some serious impact to take the rack off because of the way the car is designed to take this specific rack, and the securing mechanism it uses. If it really bothers people I can look at it again, Jeff, I am very interested in what your rack is if not conventional. I have elected on my NEW MINIVAN (now don't laugh - but think about the hauling capacity both inside and on top AND can tow up to 3500 lbs)... to have a Yakima drilled roof. I specifically chose a vehicle w/o factory rails so that they are not in the way. I am going to start with 2 cross bars and will add a third if I determine the need to spread the load further. Normally I carry one boat but all set to carry three, in a pinch four. The roof rack will be attached permanently to the roof. Should be done in the next few weeks. In the meantime, I will be using a Yakima Rack and Roll which I pick up tomorrow - whooohooo! Side note - the permanently attached roof rack will not increase the carrying capacity over the Yakima specified of 165 lbs. BUT I will feel more secure with it over other options. Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It is VW specific, unfortunately. At least on the beetle, golf, and jetta (maybe the new Fox, but I'm not sure about the new generation cars - mine's a MKIV). Under the rubber strips covering the "gutters" they put what I can only describe as pins in the locations the rack is to attach. Small rod-tabs with a flat head. The rack has scissor hooks that tighten around the tabs to lock on. Some pressure on the feet on the roof of course, for load bearing. The doors are limo-style in that they wrap over the roof a little, which secures over the scissor mechanism. Therefore even if someone breaks the foot end covers to defeat the locks, they still have to open the car doors to release the rack. My main interest in the rack is that I can quickly remove it and put it on, whereas the standard Thules were best left on so that stupid screw wouldn't get cross-threaded. At least the older Thules I had prior to getting my VW. This VW style affects the door closing less, so less wind noise but still some. My only beef is that due to the built-in design I can't move the rear bar back farther. I have a 4 door hatch vs. the 2, and I think they could have spaced the bars more on the longer chassis. That would be great for a kayak so it would be less possible for the boat to slide forward or back, being on it's side with the wide part between the bars, but the lasso takes care of that. Having it built-in avoids having to fine tune the spacing when putting the racks on. Put on, tighten, and you are done. You can do it fast enough not to get bitten by mosquitoes! I use the Prijon Jbars which are very basic solid steel strips shaped to a J, covered in vinyl. Not much padding but most Jbars seem to have a firm base even if they use thick padding elsewhere. Durability decision? The bars bend so you can adjust the angle of your boat, plus there is a little give so when tightening the straps you get a bit of extra conforming due to the elasticity. The boat will wiggle a little, which is somewhat unnerving but absorbs stress. Probably no net advantage there but my suspension is firm and the roads to most great paddling spots are rough. All roads in Mass are horrible too Pretty inexpensive since they aren't high-tech. I do like how they have welded steel loops for the straps, so you don't have to do that weird wrap you do with some Thule/Yakima Jbars, and the strap doesn't slip down in the back - less hassle when putting your boat on as everything stays in proper place. Not lockable other than maybe Loctite, but if the boat is locked to the rack that's not an issue. They don't look fancy so probably nobody would want to steal the Jbars anyway. No particular recommendation for them, just one Jbar option among many. Always take a hard look at anything German, they know engineering and don't seem to prioritize marketing. Long story when the bars won't work for your vehicle but maybe they will for other people. I don't know the load limit off the top of my head but probably less than 165. I can probably only fit 2 boats on anyway. There may be other cars that employ this option but I don't know. I'm a turbo diesel convert (insane mileage in any style driving, coupled with great low end torque to take hills fully loaded) so I don't look at many cars, being that the US market has so few diesels. Rumor of Honda thinking about it, and a diesel Element EX would be incredible! If only they had locking diffs for snowy trailheads. Due to VW using guards and covers everywhere I couldn't find a secure place to attach a bow strap hook. Plastic covers aren't secure and they block access to possible chassis points. I'm sure I can figure something out if I really try, e.g. the tow eye. I want the yak on the passenger side so it doesn't block my view of traffic lights, and like my bike on the driver's side so I'm less apt to park it into tree branches (my bike costs twice what my yak did.) Odds are the eye doesn't go where I'd want it. I was very careful initially, and since I have done a lot of highway driving with front and cross winds and everything stays put. I can see a lot of the bow when driving so problems would be indicated visually. No guarantee something can't happen, but plenty of stress testing so far and I check for movement when stopping. I've never seen any. I will experiment more and let you know what I discover. I don't want to be cocky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 It is VW specific, unfortunately. At least on the beetle, golf, and jetta (maybe the new Fox, but I'm not sure about the new generation cars - mine's a MKIV). Under the rubber strips covering the "gutters" they put what I can only describe as pins in the locations the rack is to attach. Small rod-tabs with a flat head. The rack has scissor hooks that tighten around the tabs to lock on. Some pressure on the feet on the roof of course, for load bearing. The doors are limo-style in that they wrap over the roof a little, which secures over the scissor mechanism. Therefore even if someone breaks the foot end covers to defeat the locks, they still have to open the car doors to release the rack. My main interest in the rack is that I can quickly remove it and put it on, whereas the standard Thules were best left on so that stupid screw wouldn't get cross-threaded. At least the older Thules I had prior to getting my VW. This VW style affects the door closing less, so less wind noise but still some. My only beef is that due to the built-in design I can't move the rear bar back farther. I have a 4 door hatch vs. the 2, and I think they could have spaced the bars more on the longer chassis. That would be great for a kayak so it would be less possible for the boat to slide forward or back, being on it's side with the wide part between the bars, but the lasso takes care of that. Having it built-in avoids having to fine tune the spacing when putting the racks on. Put on, tighten, and you are done. You can do it fast enough not to get bitten by mosquitoes! I use the Prijon Jbars which are very basic solid steel strips shaped to a J, covered in vinyl. Not much padding but most Jbars seem to have a firm base even if they use thick padding elsewhere. Durability decision? The bars bend so you can adjust the angle of your boat, plus there is a little give so when tightening the straps you get a bit of extra conforming due to the elasticity. The boat will wiggle a little, which is somewhat unnerving but absorbs stress. Probably no net advantage there but my suspension is firm and the roads to most great paddling spots are rough. All roads in Mass are horrible too Pretty inexpensive since they aren't high-tech. I do like how they have welded steel loops for the straps, so you don't have to do that weird wrap you do with some Thule/Yakima Jbars, and the strap doesn't slip down in the back - less hassle when putting your boat on as everything stays in proper place. Not lockable other than maybe Loctite, but if the boat is locked to the rack that's not an issue. They don't look fancy so probably nobody would want to steal the Jbars anyway. No particular recommendation for them, just one Jbar option among many. Always take a hard look at anything German, they know engineering and don't seem to prioritize marketing. Long story when the bars won't work for your vehicle but maybe they will for other people. I don't know the load limit off the top of my head but probably less than 165. I can probably only fit 2 boats on anyway. There may be other cars that employ this option but I don't know. I'm a turbo diesel convert (insane mileage in any style driving, coupled with great low end torque to take hills fully loaded) so I don't look at many cars, being that the US market has so few diesels. Rumor of Honda thinking about it, and a diesel Element EX would be incredible! If only they had locking diffs for snowy trailheads. Due to VW using guards and covers everywhere I couldn't find a secure place to attach a bow strap hook. Plastic covers aren't secure and they block access to possible chassis points. I'm sure I can figure something out if I really try, e.g. the tow eye. I want the yak on the passenger side so it doesn't block my view of traffic lights, and like my bike on the driver's side so I'm less apt to park it into tree branches (my bike costs twice what my yak did.) Odds are the eye doesn't go where I'd want it. I was very careful initially, and since I have done a lot of highway driving with front and cross winds and everything stays put. I can see a lot of the bow when driving so problems would be indicated visually. No guarantee something can't happen, but plenty of stress testing so far and I check for movement when stopping. I've never seen any. I will experiment more and let you know what I discover. I don't want to be cocky. Hi Jeff, Not to beat a dead horse, but have you looked on and under the bumpers of your VW for openings? On my '07 Audi A3, which is our primary kayak carrier and is made by VW, there is one point on each bumper and on the passenger side, that are actually tow points -- not that the car is ever to be towed that way. One is located UNDER the rear bumper and the other on the front bumper level with the Audi logo. The one on the front was square and popped out. We screwed the large eye bolt that came with the car in and then bought another one from the dealer for the other opening. We attach our bow and stern tie-downs this way and all is secure and the car isn't compromised. This has worked very well for the past two years. My husband's '05 A4 has a similar arrangement that works as well when we've used his car to carry boats. We learned about this trick from a good friend who has a Mazda, so it's possible other cars would have the same feature. Just a suggestion. Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I know there is a rear place to hook but I think the front is more important. Although the A3/A4 shares the same chassis as the Golf/Jetta, mine is an earlier generation (00) so the style is different. The 04 might be the same gen but I suspect not since most manufacturer generations last 3-4 years. One of the ways they distinguish between makes using the same chassis is by different bumpers (you want your Audi to look different than a VW.) Probably similar body points though. I'll have to get down there and look again. Tough to see as it is low and all the guards. I can also search the net, lots of info there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I know there is a rear place to hook but I think the front is more important. Although the A3/A4 shares the same chassis as the Golf/Jetta, mine is an earlier generation (00) so the style is different. The 04 might be the same gen but I suspect not since most manufacturer generations last 3-4 years. One of the ways they distinguish between makes using the same chassis is by different bumpers (you want your Audi to look different than a VW.) Probably similar body points though. I'll have to get down there and look again. Tough to see as it is low and all the guards. I can also search the net, lots of info there. Jeff- I've got an 01 passat, and the tow loop is hidden behind the slotted trim piece below the bumper in vertical line with the headlamp. Not sure if there is more than one, but the one we use is on the passenger side. Our trim piece got lost in a fender bender, but it looks like it just snaps in, and that you could tie a piece of webbing through the tow loop, slide it through the trim piece and then tie another knot to keep it from sliding back. You don't normally want much pressure on the front and or rear ties (why the sell ratcheting ties for this is beyond me), but you want it strong enough to keep the stuff on top of the car from leaving should a catastrophic rack failure happen. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkilroy Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 An alternative to the Lasso is a product called "Steel Core" security straps. These are slightly thicker than your typical tie-down straps and have a locking ratchet device on one end. Very strong and friendly to use. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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