Wet Suit induces Arm Paddling?

[Gcosloy]

I'm sure this is only anecdotal and highly personal. I gave up arm paddling a long time ago and try to use my torso as much as I can. In my case i'ts only 5 to 10 degrees of rotation but with fairly straight arms has eliminated any form of tendonitis which can result from excessive arm paddling. Yesterday I wore a wet suit for the first time for a fairly long paddle in Ipswich Bay. Nothing changed except my arms are a bit sore this morning and I'm experiencing a mild form of tennis elbow. The tight wet suit may be enough to mitigate what little torso movement I do. Very interesting. I'm sure if I concentrate, I can overcome this. Soon it's dry suit season and I won't have to worry about being so constrained.

[djlewis]

Yesterday I wore a wet suit for the first time for a fairly long paddle in Ipswich Bay. Nothing changed except my arms are a bit sore this morning and I'm experiencing a mild form of tennis elbow. The tight wet suit may be enough to mitigate what little torso movement I do.

First, tendonitis is a form of RSI -- repetitive stress injury -- as I'm sure you know. As such, you won't get a case of it from a single or even a few days of paddling -- it has to accumulate over many sessions. So if tendonitis is what you think is happening, then it probably goes deeper than just the switch to a wet suit and/or one day's change in paddling mechanics. One day of paddling a particular way, especially a change, might aggravate it and bring it to the surface, but the underlying problem has to have already been there.

Second, if you're only getting 5-10 degrees of torso rotation at the chest (I'm guessing that's where you measure; it does vary up and down the torso from the hips to the shoulders), then either your front-to-back blade movement in the water is very short -- and inefficient -- or you are getting more than you might think out of elbow bending and/or moving the lower hand farther back than the upper hand, either of which will induce an inefficient blade angle and waste energy So it might be worth having someone observe your stroke for those kinds of fine points.

Some or all of these might be contributing to your tendonitis, but other likely candidates are your grip on the paddle and what you do with your wrists.

Finally, if you have any kind of tendonitis problems, you might consider working on your forearm and wrist muscles with forward and reverse wrist curls. That's no quick fix, but in my experience, can, in the long run, really help reduce tendonitis almost anywhere in your arms and wrists.

--David

[subaruguru]

Hi Gene,

Interesting, as my thinking has been the opposite: that the slight toro contraction provided by a wetsuit actually HELPS keep my muscles in line, allowing better control for MORE rotation!

I suffer some forearm and wrist tendenitis because of arthritis and perhaps use of big spoons (700cm Ikelos), but find no effect from neoprene compression...either from a wetsuit or snug skirt.

Seat hip contact geometry would seem to be more important, actually.

Ern

[Brian Nystrom]

One thing that definitely inhibits torso rotation is a spray skirt with a tight fitting tunnel and a taught deck. Until you try an akuilisaq - which is only tight at the coaming rim and the top band- or a tuiliq, it's hard to appreciate how much more freedom of movement they provide.

Although I started out paddling in a wetsuit (for cost reasons, like most people who go that route), I quickly gave up on it, switched to a dry suit and never looked back. The wetsuit has been collecting dust for years.

[subaruguru]

Brian's next-level comment prompts me to add that a HYBRID sprayskirt with a nylon tunnel doesn't impede rotation. In cool weather I'm still a wetsuit guy. Just easier to don than fighting with that zipper and latex cuffs, and of course in the hot sun a wetsuit is much nicer if ya can't roll to cool off.

[Pintail]

Yesterday was glorious and I am still paddling in merely a capilene teeshirt -- and found it perfectly comfortable upside-down! I shall likely-as-not go straight from capilene to drysuit, at some later stage -- perhaps after wearing a dry-top for a short while.

The water temperature may have dropped markedly in the past couple of weeks; but it is still quite warm -- don't let this put you off paddling yet!

[Gcosloy]

Yesterday was glorious and I am still paddling in merely a capilene teeshirt -- and found it perfectly comfortable upside-down! I shall likely-as-not go straight from capilene to drysuit, at some later stage -- perhaps after wearing a dry-top for a short while.

The water temperature may have dropped markedly in the past couple of weeks; but it is still quite warm -- don't let this put you off paddling yet!

Chris,

I was upside down in my wet suit last Wednesday at Red Rock and never felt the water temperature except on my face. It sure takes the edge off being upside down when you're comfy warm.

[Rob Hazard]

One thing that always bothered me about paddling in a wetsuit was that the arms are tailored to hang straight down, so your arms are always pulled by the taut neoprene.

An old windsurfing friend just told me about a company called Desoto that makes wetsuits for swimmers with the arms tailored reaching straight forward. This might make for more comfortable paddling, too. They aren't cheap, though.

[Brian Nystrom]

Brian's next-level comment prompts me to add that a HYBRID sprayskirt with a nylon tunnel doesn't impede rotation.

True, though most of them I've seen are pretty crappy and don't seal well at either the top or the bottom. If you can find one with good neoprene seals at these points, it should work well and provide more freedom of movement.

In cool weather I'm still a wetsuit guy. Just easier to don than fighting with that zipper and latex cuffs, and of course in the hot sun a wetsuit is much nicer if ya can't roll to cool off.

I'm puzzled by these comments. I could easily don and doff my dry suit twice in the time it takes me to stretch on my wetsuit, especially if my skin is damp or sweaty. If a wetsuit goes on and off easily, it's an indication that it doesn't fit properly (too loose). To insulate effectively, a wetsuit needs to be skin-tight.

I also don't understand the comment about comfort in the sun, as in a wetsuit, you're basically "stewing in your own juices" and you have to live with whatever level of insulation it provides, whether you want it or not. In a Gore-Tex (or similar) dry suit, you stay relatively dry and you can easily adjust the amount of insulation to the conditions by varying your under layers.

IMO, there is absolutely no comparison in comfort and versatility, the dry suit wins hands-down. The only advantage to neoprene is that it's cheap.

[rcohn]

One thing that always bothered me about paddling in a wetsuit was that the arms are tailored to hang straight down, so your arms are always pulled by the taut neoprene.

An old windsurfing friend just told me about a company called Desoto that makes wetsuits for swimmers with the arms tailored reaching straight forward.

Freediving wetsuits are also tailored for an extended arm posture. Brands include OMER, Picasso, Sporosub, etc. Also there are a number of custom wetsuit makers in the US.

Ralph

[subaruguru]

I could easily don and doff my dry suit twice in the time it takes me to stretch on my wetsuit.... If a wetsuit goes on and off easily, it's an indication that it doesn't fit properly (too loose). To insulate effectively, a wetsuit needs to be skin-tight.

Brian; the faced-fabric ones are pretty easy to don.

I also don't understand the comment about comfort in the sun, as in a wetsuit, you're basically "stewing in your own juices" and you have to live with whatever level of insulation it provides, whether you want it or not. In a Gore-Tex (or similar) dry suit, you stay relatively dry and you can easily adjust the amount of insulation to the conditions by varying your under layers.

I meant adjusting WHILE PADDLING, through use of zipper.

[jason]

True, though most of them I've seen are pretty crappy and don't seal well at either the top or the bottom. If you can find one with good neoprene seals at these points, it should work well and provide more freedom of movement.

I'm puzzled by these comments. I could easily don and doff my dry suit twice in the time it takes me to stretch on my wetsuit, especially if my skin is damp or sweaty. If a wetsuit goes on and off easily, it's an indication that it doesn't fit properly (too loose). To insulate effectively, a wetsuit needs to be skin-tight.

I also don't understand the comment about comfort in the sun, as in a wetsuit, you're basically "stewing in your own juices" and you have to live with whatever level of insulation it provides, whether you want it or not. In a Gore-Tex (or similar) dry suit, you stay relatively dry and you can easily adjust the amount of insulation to the conditions by varying your under layers.

IMO, there is absolutely no comparison in comfort and versatility, the dry suit wins hands-down. The only advantage to neoprene is that it's cheap.

I don't have a wetsuit season, if it's to cold for me to be in the water I move directory to the dry suit. And once it's too hot for the dry suit it's back to the swim trunks. As the water gets colder, the layers change under the dry suit.

-Jason

[Suz]

My problem with wet suits is that they give me a backache. I think that they are too short for my torso and find it pulls me back a bit and that gives me a backache.

I use more protection than swim trunks, surfskin short or pants and will wear a short sleeve dry top or long sleeved. I will add insulation to the top and bottom. When that isn't enough, I too will move to a dry suit while skipping the wet suit.

There are super stretchy wet suits available to the surf market that are supposedly comfortable and warm, but you are definitely wet and these don't have zippers so that should also tell you what you are wet with... so, they aren't for me.

Suz

[Bill Gwynn]

I am also a fan of the 2 piece setup. I use Reeds Chill Cheater Pants, and then whatever is appropriate for the top.

[bob budd]

In case you didn't know the wet suits they are talking about with arm "direction" aren't the farmer john style that many have with no arms whatsoever. Roger Pollock has a wetsuit with arms he surfs in and finds comfortable, I don't know how the arms are configured.

As regards a wetsuit versus the options mentioned earlier except for an appropriately insulated dry suit a wetsuit provides more protection when immersed than the other options. That's not to say you won't be less comfortable in the wetsuit, just that if you end up in the water for a prolonged period of time you are less subject to hypothermia, etc. So you balance safety and comfort as a personal choice.

I've never tried a drysuit in semi-warm to warm conditions. I thought about it once or twice this summer but never did. My suit, Kokatat Meridian, is easy enough to open up (zipper only or to the waist if necessary) when out of the boat so staying cool isn't an issue. During breaks it's actually a good practice when wearing a dry suit to drop the drysuit to the waist and put a layer or two on (for warmth) allowing the inside to dry out. In the boat, I can't image its inherently warmer than the 3mm farmer john and PFD I have always worn in warmer months. Thanks to my addled brain I now own a new 3mm farmer john but I suppose I'll try the drysuit next summer for grins.

[Brian Nystrom]

In case you didn't know the wet suits they are talking about with arm "direction" aren't the farmer john style that many have with no arms whatsoever. Roger Pollock has a wetsuit with arms he surfs in and finds comfortable, I don't know how the arms are configured.

Another option is wetsuits designed for triathletes. They provide enough freedom of movement for swimming, so paddling shouldn't be a problem.

I've never tried a drysuit in semi-warm to warm conditions. I thought about it once or twice this summer but never did.

I've done it many times and find that it's comfortable up to 70 degrees or so, especially if it's windy and/or the water temp is low, creating a cool air layer near the surface. IIRC, the warmest temp I ever used it in was ~80 degrees, which was too much.

For summer, I wear a short-sleeve dry top and love it. It provides just enough protection against wind and spray, yet isn't excessively warm.

[spider]

I'm always curious witht the wet suit, dry suit options and opinons. I know I have backed off considerably on the always wear a wet suit thought that I used to think ( don't have a dry suit)

Aside from thinking that fisherman have one of the most dangerous jobs there are yet I can't think of any that go to sea wearing wetsuits unless they are diving. I will read of people rowing across the ocean and it will show someone in a tee shirt and shorts.

I think I really saw the paradox in myself when I showed up for an outdoor rolling lesson in Newburyport dressed to the max like a penguin and this fellow at least my age ( mid fifties ) or older comes down to the water in some skimpy speedo wades in and off he goes for his daily swim.

The word envy did come to mind, as well as marketing of which I felt quite the sure they had found the picture of succeptiblity in me as I walded (sp?) over to my boat...

[Gcosloy]

That's rather amusing but true. We are all different in our response to cold water. Remember, our ideal temp is 98.6. Take that warm and toasty body in a speedo and jump into a heated pool at 80 and you feel initially chilled. I can't swim in cool water, my muscles tense up and the experience is not a good one. Out on the water I've rolled without protest in the mid sixties this summer, but sometimes I just don't like that shock of cool water. Lately, I am wearing the wet suit and it really takes the edge off, like jumping in a really warm pool.

[Brian Nystrom]

Aside from thinking that fisherman have one of the most dangerous jobs there are yet I can't think of any that go to sea wearing wetsuits unless they are diving.

They also don't wear PFDs, carry VHFs or do many other things that responsible kayakers do and many die each year. One thing thing that common to virtually every commercial fishing mishap is that if they're not rescued quickly, they die, plain and simple. They take a calculated risk - though one wonders how much actual calculation is involved - and many pay the price. Suggesting that kayakers follow the lead of commercial fishermen is pretty ridiculous. I value my life too much for that.

[spider]

yes, If I find such a person suggesting such a thing I'll give him a stern talking to...