Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I will be installing a foam seat into my Explorer but I wanted to get input from those who have done this before. I was planning on using contact cement, but is there something better to be used? Any input is welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Gwynn Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 If you are carving a custom seat, you can just fit it so it's tight and stays in place. This will allow you to move the seat around, fore and aft for trim etc. as you fine tune the overall placement and fit. When you are all set and everything is the way you want it, I just use a small spot or two of contact cement to keep the seat from moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Another option is to use 2 " wide velcro. (REI sells it.) Use contact cement on the strips for both the hull and bottom of seat. Then you can not only move the seat for ideal placement but complete removal for cleaning. Use 2 strips of about 5" in length for each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentskayaks Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hi Kevin, I have installed quite a few foam seats. I would recommend 3M spray on contact cement. If I remember correctly it says Super 77 on the can. GOOD STUFF! I would not recommend velcro. It doesn't stick to minicell very long before the water causes it to get soggy and peel right off. As far as making it fit tight. My last seat back made of minicell not glued in, blew off on the highway as well as the cockpit cover I thought would hold everything in. Make it fit tight play with it to get it in the right position then glue it in. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Gwynn Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hi Kevin, I have installed quite a few foam seats. I would recommend 3M spray on contact cement. If I remember correctly it says Super 77 on the can. GOOD STUFF! I would not recommend velcro. It doesn't stick to minicell very long before the water causes it to get soggy and peel right off. As far as making it fit tight. My last seat back made of minicell not glued in, blew off on the highway as well as the cockpit cover I thought would hold everything in. Make it fit tight play with it to get it in the right position then glue it in. Kent I've had not so good luck with the 3M 77 spray. I used it on thigh braces that eventually came loose. Maybe my prep was not clean or correct. Also, if you do use the spray, be careful where you use it, any overspray that gets on anything can leave quite a mess. I have had better luck with the good old weldwood gel contact cement. I have tried the velcro approach as well and agree that it doesn't hold up long term. I suppose it could be used temporarily to hold things in place as you fine tune and allow easy adjustments on the fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The isssue with velcro may have more to do with the adhesive than the velcro itself. Necky uses this method to attach their new foam seats to hulls and it holds up just fine. If you purchase the velcro with adhesive, that will not last. You need the velcro strips that come without adhesive and then apply contact cement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccarlson Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The isssue with velcro may have more to do with the adhesive than the velcro itself. Necky uses this method to attach their new foam seats to hulls and it holds up just fine. If you purchase the velcro with adhesive, that will not last. You need the velcro strips that come without adhesive and then apply contact cement. Gene is correct... the sticky stuff on the velcro won't stick for long. I just put contact cement right over the adhesive the velcro came with. It held for 3 years in my previous boat and has been in the Explorer for over a year so far. Carl C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Gene is correct... the sticky stuff on the velcro won't stick for long. I just put contact cement right over the adhesive the velcro came with. It held for 3 years in my previous boat and has been in the Explorer for over a year so far. Carl C. If you want to place the seat and to have the option to move it later, or if you’re test fitting to see if you like the placement : spot gluing (e.g. a dab of contact cement in five spots) will hold it okay and then you can pull it free easily. If you are sure where you want your seat and want to keep it there: make sure you have a dry, prepped surfaces. Apply a thin coat of contact cement (boat and seat), wait 10 minutes. Apply another coat, wait ten minutes, apply a third coat, then 10 minutes later, or when its tacky, fix the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob budd Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Do tacky cements work on Gerrish Island? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you want to place the seat and to have the option to move it later, or if you’re test fitting to see if you like the placement : spot gluing (e.g. a dab of contact cement in five spots) will hold it okay and then you can pull it free easily. If you are sure where you want your seat and want to keep it there: make sure you have a dry, prepped surfaces. Apply a thin coat of contact cement (boat and seat), wait 10 minutes. Apply another coat, wait ten minutes, apply a third coat, then 10 minutes later, or when its tacky, fix the seat. Having installed foam seats in both the ExplorerLV and the RomanyLV, I'd already found that following PeterB's instructions worked very well. On the advice of someone who routinely installs foam for fitting in NDKs, I used WeldWood glue. As I have to remove the seats in both boats and move them an inch forward on the advice of the designer, I will soon be able to report just how sturdy, durable, and "Sticky" the WeldWood is Something tells me I'll be CAREFULLY easing the foam off. Hopefully, I won't have to use either of the two foam just-in-case NDK seats I brought back from Georgia. Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Gwynn Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Something tells me I'll be CAREFULLY easing the foam off. Hopefully, I won't have to use either of the two foam just-in-case NDK seats I brought back from Georgia. Deb M Thats why I only put the cement in a couple of spots. Hopefully future removal will be easier without complete destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyfoley Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 QUOTE(Kevin B @ Jan 22 2008, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I will be installing a foam seat into my Explorer but I wanted to get input from those who have done this before. I was planning on using contact cement, but is there something better to be used? Any input is welcomed. H2 glue from NRS......once you glue the seat in...its not coming out until you scrape it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 When installing foam seats with glue, one thing that's important is that you get a good seal around the edges, as it's important to prevent water and sand intrusion under the seat. My preferred adhesive is Weldwood Gel contact cement, with their liquid version as the next best alternative. GOOP products also work, but I find that I need to thin them in order to get them to spread well. They - and Lexel - work well to seal around the edges of the seat once it's installed. Personally, I haven't found Velcro to work very well, regardless of whether it's adhesive-backed or glued in place. The loop side is no problem, but the hook side is polyethylene or polypropylene, which is difficult to glue to. Additionally, Velcro becomes a "sand trap" when it's used in the bottom of a boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great_blue Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Great information....now how about the reverse? I've got some minicel pads under my deck that I glued on with Super 77 and has now become detached. Any recommendations as to how to clean off the glue residue and bits of foam? Acetone, paint thinner, scraper? Thanks. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Great information....now how about the reverse? I've got some minicel pads under my deck that I glued on with Super 77 and has now become detached. Any recommendations as to how to clean off the glue residue and bits of foam? Acetone, paint thinner, scraper? Thanks. Jon Removing minicell: scraper (some good tools in the paint/wallpaper removal section of Home Depot), thin gloves (latexor or nitrex), acetone, respirator with fresh organic vapor cartridges, coarse sandpaper, and patience. There’s something to be said for having a seat that can be moved. I initially installed the foam seat in my Explorer farther aft than customary; the boat didn’t weathercock at all; then I moved the seat about an inch and a quarter forward, and there was quite a difference: my thighs were in better contact, and the boat seemed faster and handier: looser stern, I guess. But then it weathercocked a little bit. Interesting how an inch makes such a difference. Adjusting trim can be a useful tool. However, at this time my preference is to find a spot for the seat that works for me and keep it there, and just get used to it the way it is. Since stock fiberglass seats are generally harder to move this is mostly what their owners do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Removing minicell: scraper (some good tools in the paint/wallpaper removal section of Home Depot), thin gloves (latexor or nitrex), acetone, respirator with fresh organic vapor cartridges, coarse sandpaper, and patience. There’s something to be said for having a seat that can be moved. I initially installed the foam seat in my Explorer farther aft than customary; the boat didn’t weathercock at all; then I moved the seat about an inch and a quarter forward, and there was quite a difference: my thighs were in better contact, and the boat seemed faster and handier: looser stern, I guess. But then it weathercocked a little bit. Interesting how an inch makes such a difference. Adjusting trim can be a useful tool. However, at this time my preference is to find a spot for the seat that works for me and keep it there, and just get used to it the way it is. Since stock fiberglass seats are generally harder to move this is mostly what their owners do anyway. After Nigel Dennis watched me paddle during a training, he promptly suggested that I and another woman in an ExplorerLV -- I was in the RomanyLV -- move our seats forward. The reasoning was that that inch would give us better fit (although I've always been pretty pleased with the fit on my Romany) and better paddle placement. Two other coaches, one who specializes in forward stroke, seconded his advice. Now all I have to do is go down into the unheated basement and start peeling the seats off. I'm not sure if I glued the Romany seat down by smearing the entire bottom or on contact points -- the seat in the Explorer was custom done, using Weldwood contact cement -- so it should be interesting. Or frustrating Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyfoley Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 After Nigel Dennis watched me paddle during a training, he promptly suggested that I and another woman in an ExplorerLV -- I was in the RomanyLV -- move our seats forward. The reasoning was that that inch would give us better fit (although I've always been pretty pleased with the fit on my Romany) and better paddle placement. Two other coaches, one who specializes in forward stroke, seconded his advice. Now all I have to do is go down into the unheated basement and start peeling the seats off. I'm not sure if I glued the Romany seat down by smearing the entire bottom or on contact points -- the seat in the Explorer was custom done, using Weldwood contact cement -- so it should be interesting. Or frustrating Deb M hacksaw blades are flexible and can usually slide right under...if you're careful, shouldn't lose any foam off the seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 hacksaw blades are flexible and can usually slide right under...if you're careful, shouldn't lose any foam off the seat A bigger concern with using a hacksaw blade is losing fiberglass off the hull. I don't recommend using anything that's abrasive in situations where you have little control. A flexible 1"-2"putty knife with the corners and edges lightly rounded works best, but a plastic scraper or even a wood wedge will do and are safer tools for separating a seat from a hull. Once the foam is out, the glue residue can be removed with a solvent, if necessary. My preference here is for lacquer thinner, as it's less volatile than acetone, which gives it more time to dissolve the glue before it evaporates. If you lose any foam off the underside of the seat, just shave it down to an even surface and laminate more foam to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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