Pains Wessex Mini Flares

[mesbennett]

Hi, I recently asked Jeff Allen about the flares that he carries. (I think they are the same that were presented to us at the first ACA trip leader training.)

I have found them on the web for around $60. Just thought that others might be interested.

http://www.bestglide.com/miniflare3_info.html

maryb

[Bill Gwynn]

Be aware that there is a significant HazMat shipping charge (i think somewhere around $40.00). So, the best option is to try to find them locally, or get several people to go in together and order a bunch of them and share the shipping charge.

[EEL]

Does anyone have experience or opinions about laser flares? They are expensive, but maybe they have advantages that make them worth it. Just curious.

Ed Lawson

[Bill Gwynn]

Does anyone have experience or opinions about laser flares? They are expensive, but maybe they have advantages that make them worth it. Just curious.

Ed Lawson

I have one, it seems to work well, got it at the Bar Harbor Symposium. Lot's of folks up there were using them. But I guess the proof is in the pudding. Here's hoping I never have to prove it's effectiveness. Really not that expensive when compared to the cost of mini flares and HazMat shipping. I have the $100.00 one from this site. I also carry the mini flares mentioned above.

[tvcrider]

Hi, I recently asked Jeff Allen about the flares that he carries. (I think they are the same that were presented to us at the first ACA trip leader training.)

I have found them on the web for around $60. Just thought that others might be interested.

http://www.bestglide.com/miniflare3_info.html

maryb

Mary,

I believe the flares in question are normally sold by New England Small Craft. In fact they are the only retailer I could find that actually stocked this item. I had been searching for this pencil launcher kit for over a year. I picked up a set of three flares with the launcher from Brad and Joel in mid-October. At that time I snagged the last one, but they indicated that they would be restocking it. If I recollect correctly they were selling the kit for about $30. I thought it was a nice deal.

[mesbennett]

Mary,

I believe the flares in question are normally sold by New England Small Craft. In fact they are the only retailer I could find that actually stocked this item. I had been searching for this pencil launcher kit for over a year. I picked up a set of three flares with the launcher from Brad and Joel in mid-October. At that time I snagged the last one, but they indicated that they would be restocking it. If I recollect correctly they were selling the kit for about $30. I thought it was a nice deal.

Hey, thanks for that info!!

southern tier of NY....I worked in Steuben ct for several years, living under the border in PA for 15. Loved it!!!!

mb

[Suz]

Here are the flares that I recently purchased from Landfall Nagivation:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ssdns.html

They are the Pains Wessex Day/Night flares. The beauty of these is that one end is smoke for day time and the other is a flare for night time/low light conditions. They are small enough to carry on you and they are waterprroof so hopefully they will stay functional for their full life span.

When purchasing, check the expiration date. Landfall is very good about selling ones with lots of life left in them. Note that with the exchange rate, they are getting more expensive, not less.

Suz

[tvcrider]

Here are the flares that I recently purchased from Landfall Nagivation:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ssdns.html

They are the Pains Wessex Day/Night flares. The beauty of these is that one end is smoke for day time and the other is a flare for night time/low light conditions. They are small enough to carry on you and they are waterprroof so hopefully they will stay functional for their full life span.

When purchasing, check the expiration date. Landfall is very good about selling ones with lots of life left in them. Note that with the exchange rate, they are getting more expensive, not less.

Suz

Suz,

I really like the look of this item, but.....

I put in a 'dummy' order with Land Fall Navigation. YIKES! HAZMAT Ground shipping to send a single flare to my home is $69.95! (See Bill's note above)

[kattenbo]

FWIW - I had a little experience with these flares about a year and a half ago. Despite having been carried around for a year, immersed frequently, etc., all eight worked successfully. The mini launcher was easy to operate under somewhat challenging conditions (you have to remember to knock the base of the fired flare from the launcher) - the half twist attachment was easy.

I do recommend stringing a laynard from the case to the launcher - make it long enough that you can run a loop thru a handy D-ring or other attachment point when you're using them - it will make retention eaiser.

I got my originals and the replacement from New England Small Craft.

Keith

[Suz]

Suz,

I really like the look of this item, but.....

I put in a 'dummy' order with Land Fall Navigation. YIKES! HAZMAT Ground shipping to send a single flare to my home is $69.95! (See Bill's note above)

Joe,

They are expensive. I ended up buying them when I was on a trip to Connecticut for that very reason. I had tried to get a few people together to buy them but it was a logistical challenge so instead just bought the half dozen I needed.

Remember with the day/night flares, each one is really two and so can carrying two flares is really 4 - 2 smoke and 2 pinpoint.

I am always likeley to carry these, I might not be as likely to carry the fun/launcher due to size.

Suz

[EEL]

Can anyone compare the flares shown in Mary's link and the Orion Pocket Rocket flares. At first glance they seem very similar with launchers that appear identical. Do the dual purpose flares Suz is describing use the same launcher as shown in Mary's link?

Thanks.

Ed Lawson

[ChrisM]

Can anyone compare the flares shown in Mary's link and the Orion Pocket Rocket flares. At first glance they seem very similar with launchers that appear identical. Do the dual purpose flares Suz is describing use the same launcher as shown in Mary's link?

Thanks.

Ed Lawson

Ed,

I attended Connyak's kayak safety day where we got to fire of different types of flares. The Pains Wessex Miniflare kit that Mary's link points to worked really well for their size. They were comparable to a standard 12 gauge flare in hight and brightness. I was quite impressed with the kit as it was compact and you had 8 flares to fire, which as I'm sure Keith can tell you, the more the better.

The Orion Pocket Rocket flares are basically the same idea without the handy carrying case. They are about $25 for the pencil launcher and 3 flares. An extra set of 3 flares without the launcher is about $18. I ended up buying these because of the price and availability. If I had the money I'd go for the Pains Wessex Miniflare kit.

One note about both of the kits mentioned above: If you shoot one off, hold it as far away from your head as possible. Since there is no barrel, these things are really loud and some people have reported getting their hand getting (slightly) burned. (although, if you're in the water - who cares?)

In regards to the flares Suz was talking about. One side is a handheld flare. It doesn't get launched up into the sky, you hold it and wave it around (making sure it doesn't drip on you or your kayak). The other side is smoke. I didn't see these get tested but they also sound like a good idea because smoke really attracts attention during the day and the flare would be effective at night.

I guess the ultimate kit would be to have a miniflare kit in your pfd and the double ended flares/smoke in your day hatch.

Hope this helps.

[JohnHuth]

If you want something a bit more local, you can try Boxells Chandlery. It's in South Boston:

http://www.cgedwards.com/Boxells/Chandlery.html

I think they carry the mini-flares, but you can call them in advance, just to check. They seem to be able to order any flares, and get fast delivery on it - save yourself the hazmat charge.

FWIW - for me: flare gun, flares in vest, hand-held flares, smoke, and a parachute flare in the hatch.

I used to carry the Orion hand held shoot-'em flares, but went back to the gun, because I felt it would be easier to manage in an emergency (cold fingers, injury, whatever, but that's just a guess, I've never had to use a flare...knock wood) and wouldn't scorch my fingers.

BTW, the parachute flare is probably overkill - the rating says it should be visible for 30 miles.

[bob budd]

I can't recall his name but a former (and current?) member from western Ma held a meeting at REI one evening showing a movie with several flares in moderate visibility, etc. I came away realizing that alot of flares really aren't that visible at a reasonable distance. Aside from injury (burning hands, etc.) it is important to consider the visibility of the flares carried. Perhaps some know of links, etc. of this and similar demonstrations.

[kattenbo]

<snip>

I used to carry the Orion hand held shoot-'em flares, but went back to the gun, because I felt it would be easier to manage in an emergency (cold fingers, injury, whatever, but that's just a guess, I've never had to use a flare...knock wood) and wouldn't scorch my fingers.

<snip>

John - if that's what works for you, that's great.

You might want to go through the motions of taking the gun out of where ever it's stored, taking the flare cartridge out (while not losing track of any additional cartridges), breaking the gun open, loading, closing, firing (simulated of course), breaking open the gun to extract the spent shell, retrieving the next cartridge, etc. Try it with gloves on and imaging doing it while retaining hold on your kayak and in some "interesting" conditions.

The reason for the drill is not to get you to change your mind about your equipment choice - it's to get folks (not just you) to think ahead about where they put things, how they're going to get to them, control them and use them when it counts. Is the gun tethered so you can let go of it when you have to do something else with that hand (like open a waterproof pouch that has spare shells, or grab your boat with a second hand)? Are the shells attached some way? (when we were having fun a while back, my paddling bud had a gun + shells - got off one shot then had the other shells taken away by the sea when we got maytagged - and he's a good, experienced paddler).

A lot of effectively using gear you carry is thinking about the little things - if you have a rescue knife in a sheath on your vest, is it in the sheath so when you reach up, grab it and pull it out, your thumb rests on the back of the blade, or the front? If you have multiple pieces of rescue gear in a pocket on your vest (flares, whistle, mirror, hood, etc.), are they tied in or tethered? So if you start to pull one item out, and the rest become dislodged, they don't disappear?

There might be an interesting pool session drill in here. One "victim" in the pool with their gear gets dumped, and then tries to get out and SIMULATES (big safety factor here) getting out and using various bits of gear while their "friends" try to wrest the kayak away from the victim - go easy at first, then work up to it (and to make it even more fun, try requiring the victim to submerge about every eight seconds while holding on the kayak, gear et al and the "friends" are still active). It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that live flares and other pyrotechnics should not be used during this kind of drill - simulations are just that - simulations.

Anyway - the likelihood of actually having to utilize this particular skill is probably pretty small, but heck, it doesn't take much time to at least one through one dry land pretend session and you might find something obvious to change.

Make sense?

Keith

[JohnHuth]

John - if that's what works for you, that's great.

You might want to go through the motions of taking the gun out of where ever it's stored, taking the flare cartridge out .... etc

Keith -

Good point. I hadn't thought about practicing with them, but it makes a lot of sense. I'll try it on some windy, cold day, when the waves are breaking etc.

I actually do worry about having the other stuff (smoke, parachute flares) in the day - hatch. Will it be accessible when I really need it, and under the conditions when I'd probably need it.

Having the gun on a tether is a good thought, too. Thanks for the post.

John