Greenland Kayak construction

[FPSIII]

Hello,

I am new to this message board and I am inexperienced in Kayaking but am excited to learn.

I want to build a skin on frame Greenland Kayak this fall / winter and was wondering if anyone was planning on building one or in the process of building one now?

It would be interested in seeing whats involved and would be happy to help if it was welcome.

I can not afford a decent production boat right now and think building my own would be rewarding.

I have ordered (Harvey Goldens book as well as Edward Tappan & Chappelle's book) that I will be studying .

Thanks,

Frank

[EEL]

I believe Sing's Evil Twin and Brian Nystrom are likely the people who hang out here on occasion who know the most about building SOF boats. Brian has wriitten a nice book or making Grenland paddles. There are websites which have discussion boards of folks whose passion is building SOF and wood kayaks. Should find them with a Google search. I know nothing about building them.

Replicas build from Harvey's book are a breed apart as they were not designed for recreational use, but hunting on the waters of the builder's area and some traits that will bedevil a recreational paddler were virtues to a hunter. Which is why there are "generic" Greenland SOF building books around. That said I found many rewards dealing with the challenges of paddling a replica, I find it quite enjoyable on many levels, and it has made me a better paddler. It is hard to explain the pleasures of paddling a snug SOF you can easily lift with one hand.

There are many kayak designs and kits for wooden as opposed to SOF kayaks around and some are excellent boats.

As for Greenland paddles, I just started using one as a lark and somehow I ended up using it almost exclusively this year.

Now I am addicted I guess.

How tall are you and what do you weigh? I know of a replica for sale as a decent price.

If you want more info on websites and boats email me at elawson-at-grizzy-dot-com.

Ed Lawson

[FPSIII]

I believe Sing's Evil Twin and Brian Nystrom are likely the people who hang out here on occasion who know the most about building SOF boats. Brian has wriitten a nice book or making Grenland paddles. There are websites which have discussion boards of folks whose passion is building SOF and wood kayaks. Should find them with a Google search. I know nothing about building them.

Replicas build from Harvey's book are a breed apart as they were not designed for recreational use, but hunting on the waters of the builder's area and some traits that will bedevil a recreational paddler were virtues to a hunter. Which is why there are "generic" Greenland SOF building books around. That said I found many rewards dealing with the challenges of paddling a replica, I find it quite enjoyable on many levels, and it has made me a better paddler. It is hard to explain the pleasures of paddling a snug SOF you can easily lift with one hand.

There are many kayak designs and kits for wooden as opposed to SOF kayaks around and some are excellent boats.

As for Greenland paddles, I just started using one as a lark and somehow I ended up using it almost exclusively this year.

Now I am addicted I guess.

How tall are you and what do you weigh? I know of a replica for sale as a decent price.

If you want more info on websites and boats email me at elawson-at-grizzy-dot-com.

Ed Lawson

Ed I tried e mailing you but got this

[jason]

Speaking of Brian Nystrom and his making Grenland paddles book I need to get a copy. Brian, I have looked on Amazon and I can't find it, where can we order one from?

Thanks -Jason

[FPSIII]

I believe Sing's Evil Twin and Brian Nystrom are likely the people who hang out here on occasion who know the most about building SOF boats. Brian has wriitten a nice book or making Grenland paddles. There are websites which have discussion boards of folks whose passion is building SOF and wood kayaks. Should find them with a Google search. I know nothing about building them.

Replicas build from Harvey's book are a breed apart as they were not designed for recreational use, but hunting on the waters of the builder's area and some traits that will bedevil a recreational paddler were virtues to a hunter. Which is why there are "generic" Greenland SOF building books around. That said I found many rewards dealing with the challenges of paddling a replica, I find it quite enjoyable on many levels, and it has made me a better paddler. It is hard to explain the pleasures of paddling a snug SOF you can easily lift with one hand.

There are many kayak designs and kits for wooden as opposed to SOF kayaks around and some are excellent boats.

As for Greenland paddles, I just started using one as a lark and somehow I ended up using it almost exclusively this year.

Now I am addicted I guess.

How tall are you and what do you weigh? I know of a replica for sale as a decent price.

If you want more info on websites and boats email me at elawson-at-grizzy-dot-com.

Ed Lawson

Ed,

Thanks for the quick post.

I was'nt sure how to reply on the board, when i hit reply button it gave me your text in a box.

Adam Bolonski mentioned Brian as well but suggested I post on NSPN first to see if any one "Bit".

I also figured Brian may see my post and reply in time.

I'm 5' 10" 193lbs right now. a tad over weight but plan on dropping to about 180-185 lbs by spring the trend is in the right direction at the moment.

I learned how to steam bend ribs from Thad Danielson here in Marblehead at Redd's Pond Boatworks.

He can rip as much rib stock as i need and he has the steam box. ( he is a nice guy but may over charge )

I have an old beer keg for a steamer and could fabricate my own setup if I need to.

I think I would go "Traditional" to start with the Greenland paddle etc.

I am willing to chk out a 2nd hand "Starter" boat if it was a proper fit for me.

Regards,

Frank

[FPSIII]

Speaking of Brian Nystrom and his making Grenland paddles book I need to get a copy. Brian, I have looked on Amazon and I can't find it, where can we order one from?

Thanks -Jason

Jason,

Found a link online to buy it direct

http://greenlandpaddlebook.com/

Frank

[bob budd]

I can't say one way or another but if you are "new to kayaking" I'm not sure you want to start off building and paddling an SOF boat. They are very light and are great boats but I'm not sure they are what a beginner would find a good craft to learn in. I'll let the "experts" confirm or deny my suspicions, just wanted to make sure you were going down the right road.

[rcohn]

Hello,

I am new to this message board and I am inexperienced in Kayaking but am excited to learn.

I want to build a skin on frame Greenland Kayak this fall / winter and was wondering if anyone was planning on building one or in the process of building one now?

It would be interested in seeing whats involved and would be happy to help if it was welcome.

I can not afford a decent production boat right now and think building my own would be rewarding.

I have ordered (Harvey Goldens book as well as Edward Tappan & Chappelle's book) that I will be studying .

Thanks,

Frank

We are still paddling and rolling SOF qajaqs on Walden Pond on the weekends if you want to se some. Unless your knees hyperextend I suspect you would only fit in mine. While an SOF can be built in a range of sizes, most of the Greenland ones you'll see are geared to an intermediate or advanced paddler. I love my qajaq now but would not have wanted to start out in it as a beginner. Also, only a few use their kayaks for open water paddling, with no bulkheads, potentially minimal volume, and tight ocean cockpits they require a solid roll and paddling skill for open ocean use. There are some other designs around such as the Ginnyak, which have higher volume and may be more suitable.

If you are interested in building a Greenland kayak, you should look for Mark Starr’s, Christopher Cunningham’s and Robert Morris’ books on construction.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Skin-Frame-...8627&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Greenland-K...8627&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Greenland-K...8828&sr=1-1

]\

Also look at Tom Yost excellent online manual http://yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html he now has instruction for wood frame and inflatable kayaks as well as the folders.

There are other manuals or plans available for different SOF designs such as baidarkas and Bering Sea kayaks (Hooper Bay).

Ralph

[EEL]

Frank:

I got the email. Anyway, Bob Budd makes a valid point. I don't know what your paddling skills are, but I believe it is fair to say any traditional Greenland kayak has a far tighter fit than any commercial boat and will generally be considered tippier and twitchier than almost any commercial boat. Not exactly a comfy place for someone new to the game. Remember wet exits were fatal in Greenland so being able to get out of a kayak easily let alone while upside down in the water was not a design criterion.

For example, if you can find an Anas Acuta to try out consider the fact it is far easier to get into, far more spacious, and more stable than a traditional boat. You need to try one as the reality of it will immediately become obvious while it will never sink in reading about them. Typical the distance between the bottom and interior top of a traditional cockpit for someone near your size would be about 7.75" while a "tight" commercial boat would be around 11".

There are non-traditional SOF kayaks that have cockpits similar to commercial boats.

These might well be good to learn in.

Check Brian Shulz's designs at Cape Falcon kayaks.

Ed Lawson

[jason]

Jason,

Found a link online to buy it direct

http://greenlandpaddlebook.com/

Frank

Thanks for the link, it looks like I can get the book from Small Craft on my next trip.

Thanks -Jason

[FPSIII]

Thank you all for taking the time to offer advice.

I am digesting all of it.

I am so hungry to get on the water before it gets too cold.

Thanks ,

Frank

[kbrede]

Hello,

I am new to this message board and I am inexperienced in Kayaking but am excited to learn.

I want to build a skin on frame Greenland Kayak this fall / winter and was wondering if anyone was planning on building one or in the process of building one now?

It would be interested in seeing whats involved and would be happy to help if it was welcome.

I can not afford a decent production boat right now and think building my own would be rewarding.

I have ordered (Harvey Goldens book as well as Edward Tappan & Chappelle's book) that I will be studying .

Hi Frank,

I don't live in your area. I'm from Nebraska but I like you am inexperienced at kayaking. In fact the only time I'd been in a kayak before I built mine was a plastic rec kayak about 5 years ago One of the nice things about building your own kayak is you can tailor the build to fit your needs. What you need to determine is what you want to do with your kayak and in what conditions. Do you want to paddle rivers, lakes, ocean, surf, roll, etc? Then tailor the style and build to fit your needs. I decided to build a variation of the Alaskan Retrieval kayak for my first build. I'll primarily use it for navigating tight winding rivers so I build lots of rocker into it for responsiveness. It's short for portability and 23" wide so it's pretty stable even with a rounded bottom. It's not a great kayak for paddling in a strait line but it should teach me good paddling skills when I do take in on the lakes close to home You can take a look at the kayak here if you're interested http://nekayaker.blogspot.com/ Next I'm going to build a Ginnyak http://capefalconkayak.com/ginnyak2.html for my wife and probably a Baidarka for myself.

Here's two good forums to get help. Reading the archives is educational -

http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi

http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/GreenlandT...Forum_config.pl

One thing I'll mention on the first build it's easy to spend quite a bit of money on tools and materials as I found out Good luck with your project. I really enjoyed it and looking forward to the next two builds.

Kent

[kbrede]

We are still paddling and rolling SOF qajaqs on Walden Pond on the weekends if you want to se some. Unless your knees hyperextend I suspect you would only fit in mine. While an SOF can be built in a range of sizes, most of the Greenland ones you'll see are geared to an intermediate or advanced paddler. I love my qajaq now but would not have wanted to start out in it as a beginner. Also, only a few use their kayaks for open water paddling, with no bulkheads, potentially minimal volume, and tight ocean cockpits they require a solid roll and paddling skill for open ocean use. There are some other designs around such as the Ginnyak, which have higher volume and may be more suitable.

If you are interested in building a Greenland kayak, you should look for Mark Starr’s, Christopher Cunningham’s and Robert Morris’ books on construction.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Skin-Frame-...8627&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Greenland-K...8627&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Greenland-K...8828&sr=1-1

]\

Also look at Tom Yost excellent online manual http://yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html he now has instruction for wood frame and inflatable kayaks as well as the folders.

There are other manuals or plans available for different SOF designs such as baidarkas and Bering Sea kayaks (Hooper Bay).

Ralph

Just a note. Bulkheads can be added to a SOF http://www.paavia.dk/Bulkhead.htm but most people opt for using float bags which you can make or purchase. With either method, if the kayak is swamped, it will float.

One other book I found useful for construction tips, although it isn't a Greenland manual, is

"The Aleutian Kayak: Origins, Construction, and Use of the Traditional Seagoing Baidarka" by Wolfgang Brinck. It's out of print but I picked up a used one at a resonable price online somewhere.

Kent

[jason]

Just a note. Bulkheads can be added to a SOF http://www.paavia.dk/Bulkhead.htm but most people opt for using float bags which you can make or purchase. With either method, if the kayak is swamped, it will float.

One other book I found useful for construction tips, although it isn't a Greenland manual, is

"The Aleutian Kayak: Origins, Construction, and Use of the Traditional Seagoing Baidarka" by Wolfgang Brinck. It's out of print but I picked up a used one at a resonable price online somewhere.

Kent

Using a Sea sock along with float bags is a good idea. A sea sock will keep most of the water out of the boat allow for a simple T rescue instead of requiring a x rescue.

-Jason

[Brian Nystrom]

Hi all,

I'm not being anti-social, I've just been up in Sudbury Ontario on business for a few days and haven't checked the forum. I don't have any plans to build any skin boats this winter, but I'll be happy to answer questions or let people check out the two skin boats that I have currently. The best online source for SOF related information is the message board at qajaqusa.org.

MY book is available directly from me or from one of the dealers listed on the website, including NESC.

[FPSIII]

Just a note. Bulkheads can be added to a SOF http://www.paavia.dk/Bulkhead.htm but most people opt for using float bags which you can make or purchase. With either method, if the kayak is swamped, it will float.

One other book I found useful for construction tips, although it isn't a Greenland manual, is

"The Aleutian Kayak: Origins, Construction, and Use of the Traditional Seagoing Baidarka" by Wolfgang Brinck. It's out of print but I picked up a used one at a resonable price online somewhere.

Kent

Hello Kent and all you other Greenland enthusiasts,

I just bought Bethany's old perception Aquaterra Chinook (looks like a good first boat) on the 19th and some gear today.

I would like to chk out the Greenland boats on Walden Pond, are you going to be there this weekend? I think maybe based on advice from this forum that I should put in some paddling time get comfortable and try other peoples kayaks/ Quajags before I decide what to build.

I can see what aesthetics I like but I'm not sure that will translate into a boat that I will like.

I just dont know whats "right" yet or what would be a good fit.

Harvey Goldens book just came in today and I am drooling over some of the lines.

Would it make sense to take a n existing desicgn like in Harvey Goldens book and add some beam to it to make it easier for a noobie like me?

I'm a sailor and would be able to pick what I wanted in a sailboat but Kayaks are new to me.

I should probably just dive in and build a good conservative hull with some beam, It would be a good way to learn even if it was just an experiment a base line to start from.

Thanks,

Frank

[rcohn]

Hello Kent and all you other Greenland enthusiasts,

I just bought Bethany's old perception Aquaterra Chinook (looks like a good first boat) on the 19th and some gear today.

I would like to chk out the Greenland boats on Walden Pond, are you going to be there this weekend? I think maybe based on advice from this forum that I should put in some paddling time get comfortable and try other peoples kayaks/ Quajags before I decide what to build.

We plan to be out on Sunday, time TBD.

I can see what aesthetics I like but I'm not sure that will translate into a boat that I will like.

I just dont know whats "right" yet or what would be a good fit.

Harvey Goldens book just came in today and I am drooling over some of the lines.

Would it make sense to take a n existing desicgn like in Harvey Goldens book and add some beam to it to make it easier for a noobie like me?

I'm a sailor and would be able to pick what I wanted in a sailboat but Kayaks are new to me.

I should probably just dive in and build a good conservative hull with some beam, It would be a good way to learn even if it was just an experiment a base line to start from.

Scaling of traditional designs is not reported to generally work too well. Simply altering one dimension can change the qajaq's character. Increasing the beam without changing the angle of the gunnels will alter draft, change the gunnel angle and then the shear line tends to change, etc. Those who have built replicas frequently recommend you pick a qajaq that is the size you think will be right. Some believe replicas provide the best performance, but matching an often complex shape requires additional work.

Many of us build generic West Greenland kayaks as described in the various building manuals with good results. You also need to consider what you intended use will be. Few would want to use a rolling qajaq if ocean paddling was their goal. The first qajaq is often consider mainly a learning experience. Avoid trying to "innovate" in the design. For example, think a wider foot brace will be more comfortable and secure? It won't be and it would prevent you from learning advanced Greenland rolls or paddling in the forward position.

Hope to see you (and anyone else interested) on Sunday.

Ralph

[rcohn]

We plan to be out on Sunday, time TBD.

.......

Hope to see you (and anyone else interested) on Sunday.

Ralph

We're planning on arriving at the boat ramp at 11 am. As always, anyone interested in Greenland kayaking/rolling is welcome.

Ralph