NDK Owners Group - on line

[Brian Nystrom]

[Brian Nystrom]

...I've seen this same problem in other boats. It's still not acceptable, but it's not that uncommon.

[eneumeier]

With a skeg AND a rudder, and still lighter than Karen's Romany 16.

Liz N.

[adelavega]

>With a skeg AND a rudder, and still lighter than Karen's

>Romany 16.

The Vivian is a racing boat. It's made to be light and fast. The Romany is a heavy water boat. It's made to play in surf, rock gardens and tidal races. Would you seal land a vivian on a 6 foot high rock wall? Would you endo it in surf? Would it survive a day on the Penryn Mawr? That's the Romany's raison d'etre.

Now, could the Romany be made lighter? Sure. Could NDK improve their quality control? Abso-freakin'-lutely. But please, lets compare apples to apples here. These boats have nothing in common except that they are called "kayaks".

Buy a boat that suits what you want to do. If Karen was looking for a light boat and doesn't need the Romany's performance and durability, then she's in the wrong boat. If Liz wants to go in a fairly straight line, really really fast, she's in the right boat.

--Amy

whose Greenlander Pro is the right boat for her

[eneumeier]

Amy, relax. I was joking already. I only posted to get the extra 6" out of Brian. Karen and I were laughing on Monday when we were carrying these two boats. And, I mentioned to her how much more nimble her Romany is than lengthy Viviane.

Liz N.

[Brian Nystrom]

...but perhaps Nigel does too.

The Vivianne isn't a flimsy boat. It's constructed the same way as other Kajak Sport boats - it's built right, using quality materials and manufacturing processes. NDK boats could easily be built 10-15 pounds lighter if they just did the same thing. The extra weight contributes almost nothing to strength, since it's due to the excessive use of gelcoat and chopped strand matt (which soaks up resin like a sponge), which are heavy but low in strength. Build a Romany with 25% less gelcoat and all woven glass, and it will be stronger, more resilient, a lot lighter and more durable. If you want a stiff boat, structural foam cores add only a few ounces, but lots of stiffness.

I'm glad that you like your boat, but don't kid yourself that the extra weight is gaining you anything. Consider that VCP and P&H boats have proven themselves worthy in the same waters and conditions, but they're considerably lighter.

[adelavega]

>Amy, relax. I was joking already. I only posted to get the

>extra 6" out of Brian. Karen and I were laughing on Monday

>when we were carrying these two boats. And, I mentioned to

>her how much more nimble her Romany is than lengthy Viviane.

LOL! Not to worry, I am totally relaxed, Liz. And I'm glad that

you and Karen have the boats that work for you. Re-reading,

I can see that your posts might have been in jest, but I so often

see people who choose boat A over boat B for certain characteristics

(maneuverability, speed, whatever), then bemoan that it's not boat

B. No real boat can be all things to all people.

As for getting a rise out of Brian, that's just too easy a mark.

I'm not sure what caused his reactions to NDK's, but he has my

sympathies, because it must have been traumatic.

[Guest guest]

>The Vivian is a racing boat.

The boat is designed for expeditions and has characteristics that are beneficial to racing. I assume anyone considering a purchase of a boat for camping, etc. would want to know this, whether considering this boat or its characteristics.

> It's made to be light and fast.

Light and fast are pretty useful characteristics for a kayak. As stated above construction is a better measure of durability than weight. We all need to get our boats on and off our vehicles and storage racks. That's why many pay the premium for Kevlar for a little less weight. While length is not generally advantageous for surfing there is value in quick acceleration. I suppose anyone who surfs in a 19', oops 19'6" boat, deserves what they get.

>Buy a boat that suits what you want to do.

Precisely. Know also that others have boats with various characteristics, know what those characteristics do for you, and know that owners are generally open to trying out their boat.

[Brian Nystrom]

I'm a Quality Assurance Engineer. NDK's total lack of concern about the quality of their products offends my professional sensibilities, nothing more. Nigel should be ashamed to put his name on such poorly built products. If no one complains and people still buy such shoddily constructed craft, they have no incentive to improve them.

Fortunately for the consumer, NDK saw a major drop in sales last year and more companies are building "serious" boats to compete with them, so they're being forced to make the improvements that they should have made years ago. It will be interesting to see what the '04 boats are like. Hopefully, they'll be built the way they should have been all along.