leong Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 About 90% of Atlantic striped bass spawn in the Chesapeake. In the warmer months these great game fish swim in the NSPN area for our angling pleasue. Industrial-scale fishing for menhaden in the Chesapeake Bay is starving the striped bass population. Please consider signing the petition (I will soon) available on the following site: www.savethefish.orgP.S. Contrary to many opinions about me (mostly in jest) I do not paddle at just one speed. When race training, I have 4 different speeds, and when fishing and/or touring an infinite number of speeds.P.P.S Assume a gondolier and a kayaker can both attain a speed of 7 knots in still water. Say they both enter a down-river race where the current is 5 knots. Who will win and why. Hint - think power. A beer on me for the most correct explanation. Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Saving the fish are one thing, but slowing you down is a task for only the greatest minds to accomplish. Leon, as much as I've paddled with you over the years I've only seen one speed. Maybe we should make you paddle with a broomstick. Perhaps a drouge or an anchor even.Is Jed keeping up with you yet?B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 Hi Commander,When I'm paddling with just one partner I go at the other paddlers speed. There are a few club members that probably slow down for me (except for ultra-distance trips like a double Blackburn circuit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB L Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Gondolier wins, sqared of stern will provide a larger surface for the currrent to work on. Thats my answer .Bob Lambert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 >P.P.S Assume a gondolier and a kayaker can both attain a >speed of 7 knots in still water. Say they both enter a >down-river race where the current is 5 knots. Who will win >and why. Hint - think power. The gondolier is pushing off the bottom which is moving by his boat's frame of reference at 2 knots. The kayaker is pushing off the water which is not moving relative to his boat until he starts paddling. It's unlikely that the gondolier can push off the bottom at 7 knots higher than the current's 5 knots, or a bottom speed of 12 knots. The kayaker, however, should be able to maintain her 7 knots relative to the water, or a total of 12 knots.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Smoky Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dear Dee,This is patently nonsense! Gondolas are not powered by pushing off any bottom! You know how deep the Grand or the Rialto Canals are? (Are you thinking of punts, perhaps, poled along shallow English rivers?) Gondolieri learn to scull from early age. Anyone who has ever seen the semi-circular cut-out at the top of and in the middle of the transom of a dinghy knows that a small row-boat may be sculled quite efficiently.I think the answer to Leon's question must have something to do with the continuing "sail" effect of having a paddle tip (whichever side) in the water, whereas the gondolier's oar has little "sail" area...thus gaining less advantage. I believe, therefore, that the kayaker will win the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 >Dear Dee, >>This is patently nonsense!Dear Christopher. You must stopped beating around the bush. We are never quite sure what you are saying when you sugar coat your opinions like this.>Gondolas are not powered by pushing off any bottom! You >know how deep the Grand or the Rialto Canals are? (Are you >thinking of punts, perhaps, poled along shallow English >rivers?) Gondolieri learn to scull from early age. >>Anyone who has ever seen the semi-circular cut-out at the >top of and in the middle of the transom of a dinghy knows >that a small row-boat may be sculled quite efficiently. >I wish that I had had the opporunity to see either boats, but I have not been east of Cape Cod. I must have misinter-pretted a lot of footage that I have seen.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Smoky Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adelavega Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 >Gondolas are not powered by >pushing off any bottom! You know how deep the Grand or the >Rialto Canals are? (Are you thinking of punts, perhaps, >poled along shallow English rivers?) Gondolieri learn to >scull from early age. Did you know that gondolas are built with an ever so slight curve to the keel so that they'll track straight while rowed/sculled on just one side?Think I could get a greenlander built that way to make up for my lopsided forward stroke??--Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Like Dee I assumed incorectly that Gonddola's are poled off the bottom. I dreamed up the question a few months ago while poling off the bottom near Little Neck - the tide was so low I couldn't paddle anymore. Dee's answer would be correct (but lacking analytic rigor) for gondola's that are poled. I guess when I said the "beer is on me" I should have said that you all should spill the beer on me. However, for the sake of this contest, let's assume a different kind of gondola - one that is poled off the bottom. Also assume the force vs. speed curve of the gondola and kayak are identical (you know, like the force vs. speed tables in Seakayaker's kayak reviews. The kayaker will go 12 knots down river (assuming no air drag or other second order effects). It is clear that the kayak will go faster than the poled gondola (Dee provided a logical argument to support this but without quantifying how fast the gondola would go). I owe Dee a beer.The new question is how fast will the poled gonddola go in the down river direction? You can't answer the question unless you know the forse vs. speed curve. For simplicity, assume that force is proportional to speed. With this assumption, how fast will the poled gondala go down river? A six-pack for the first correct answer. Bet Dee does it in her head.Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Chris knows his boat, gondolas are propelled by sculling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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