M Williams Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Has anyone used a Lendal Kenetic (small or larger size) or a Lendal Mystik paddle? Anyone know how they compare to the Werner high angle blades (Kauai & Molokai), which are now being replaced by Werner's new line for 04? I am trying to find a medium-sized blade with a modest spoon (curved in length but not scooped in the width) and small dihedral with a decent bite and good bracing characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 I paddle with a stadard sized Lendal Kinetik. It has a concave curve in both dimensions of the blade face: longitudinal and lateral. It has a modest rib in the face, but I wouldn't describe it as dihedral in the same way as, say, Werner blades where the face angles back from the central rib. The kenetic is a dynamic blade in the water: at first it felt swoopy when doing skulls and other in-water maneuvering. When I first got it, I had a little problem controlling it as it seemed to have a mind of its own. It also fluttered a bit on forward strokes at first. Now, that I'm used to it, both problems have disappeared as I know what to expect. In fact, I find it very powerful and responsive and stable to use. It's not a blade to paddle a few minutes and decide whether you like it. It takes getting used to.Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guido Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 if you want a Lendal to use with a vertical stroke the Nordkap might be another blade you might want to try. I have a Lendal Nordkap 216 60 degree right control crank carbon shaft with the carbon/nylon hybrid blades in very good shape that I would be willing to part with for a modest price if you are interested.Guyguido02474 at yahoo dot com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Williams Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Thanks folks for the info! Nice to hear, Scott, that the kinetic settles in after you get used to it. I had a similar initial experience with the less curved smaller archipelago that Mike Crouse and I have in our group gear at school. Thanks Guy for the offer on the Nordkapp - it's a nice blade but I found it a bit too big for me for the long haul. I am so used to my flatter blade that I guess I will either try the mystik which is smaller than the Nordkapp and flatter than the kinetic or wait for the new Werners which they tell me will have less dihedral than the older high angle blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Michael, Earlier this fall, I was looking for a paddle with very similar characteristics except I also wanted something that was rugged enough to push off of rocks with. Someone recommended the Prijon Carbon Pacific, and now I am really glad that I bought it. It looks like the blade might be a little thinner than the Warners you mentioned, the feather is more than 60 degrees, and it's a really lightweight one-piece paddle. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, it has an orientation reference on the right hand grip. http://www.prijon.com/Prijon_2003_WEB_ENG/Paddel_wander.htm Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 >Earlier this fall, I was looking for a paddle with very >similar characteristics except I also wanted something that >was rugged enough to push off of rocks with.Dee, could you elaborate? I've been using Lendals for a while (both fiberglass and carbon/nylon), and haven't noticed a lack of ruggedness as compared to paddles from other manufacturers. Is there something in particular you're aware of?Thanks,Ciro."Leaders don't swim" - Gordon Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 The paddle blade is a carbon/kevlar layup with a foam core, so it's thicker without a fragile edge.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Williams Posted November 17, 2003 Author Share Posted November 17, 2003 Ciro,Dee is referring, I believe, to the Lendal carbon composite blade which like all such blades is a bit fragile when it hits rocks etc. Lendal is just as good as the others but all are fragile. The carbon nylon you mentioned is much stronger and very durable - also 6 to 10 oz. heavier. Dee's paddle appears to be both lighter and more durable than the standard carbon lay-up given the addition of the kevlar and the foam core as she notes, but probably is not as strong (I am guessing here not knowing the blade) as the heavier blades you note. Thanks Dee for the reference. I have elected to go ahead with the Lendal four piece because I can switch blades without a shaft change and was looking for more of a high angle short broad blade vs. the longer shape of the one you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Michael, I have a 4 piece F1 shaft in 215 and 220 with Carbon/Nylon Kinetic blades. A friend has a similar set-up with Mystic blades. I'm sure it would not be too difficult to set-up a way for you to try these. I also have a couple of Werner's foam-cored Kallistes (their new version of the Camano). The Kalliste is a low-angle version of Werner's foam-core replacements of the Molokia and Kauai. While I like foam cores, I believe their stiffness comes from the increased distance between the two skins and not actually due to the foam itself. Their strength, of course, comes from the Carbon but that is not without it's own set of compromises. I also believe that while Carbon is know for it's tensile strength, it's shear and impact strength is significantly lower that FG. I would not characterize foam core paddles as being stronger than others because of the foam itself.I would expect Kevlar to keep the blade from breaking in two but I would not expect the paddle to be usable after the Carbon component has failed due to some impact or shear event. That being said, I have not babied my Werner's and while one has taken some serious abuse of the past 2 years, another failed catastrophically on it's 4th day (Imagine me frantically fighting my way out from behind some rocks with a paddle with only one blade. Now ask Jim B why he's laughing so hard.). The defective paddle was promptly replaced by Werner but I offer the note as an example that nothing is perfect.After some destructive testing on various paddles, I've come to the belief that you can have light or you can have durable but the two are rarely found in the same design. Of course different people have different definitions of durable and light so somewhere, someone with no doubt claim to have found a perfect paddle.YMMV Jed"A paddler's ability to defend their opinion with absolute truths is inversely proportional to their actual experience.">Ciro, >>Dee is referring, I believe, to the Lendal carbon composite >blade which like all such blades is a bit fragile when it >hits rocks etc. Lendal is just as good as the others but >all are fragile. The carbon nylon you mentioned is much >stronger and very durable - also 6 to 10 oz. heavier. >Dee's paddle appears to be both lighter and more durable >than the standard carbon lay-up given the addition of the >kevlar and the foam core as she notes, but probably is not >as strong (I am guessing here not knowing the blade) as the >heavier blades you note. Thanks Dee for the reference. I >have elected to go ahead with the Lendal four piece because >I can switch blades without a shaft change and was looking >for more of a high angle short broad blade vs. the longer >shape of the one you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 >While I like foam cores, I believe their stiffness comes >from the increased distance between the two skins and not >actually due to the foam itself. Their strength, of course, >comes from the Carbon but that is not without it's own set >of compromises. I also believe that while Carbon is know for >it's tensile strength, it's shear and impact strength is >significantly lower that FG. I would not characterize foam >core paddles as being stronger than others because of the >foam itself. >I believe that the foam core translates all stresses on theskins into tensile and compression. The peak stresses felton each skin are much lower than without the foam even thoughsum of the stresses integrated over the cross-section of the paddle is the same. Due to the relative compliance of the foam, the stresses are borne almost completely by the skins.The foam only has to be strong enough to keep the skins frombuckling.>I would expect Kevlar to keep the blade from breaking in two >but I would not expect the paddle to be usable after the >Carbon component has failed due to some impact or shear >event.>Interestingly, the carbon and kevlar are woven into the same cloth in this layup. I'm not sure how the kevlar improves thedurability of the blade, but at least there is no risk of the two components separating from one another. Oh yeah, and itlooks really cool.>After some destructive testing on various paddles, I've come >to the belief that you can have light or you can have >durable but the two are rarely found in the same design. Of >course different people have different definitions of >durable and light so somewhere, someone with no doubt claim >to have found a perfect paddle. >I have only had the paddle for a couple of months - we'll see how it lasts. I do know that when I push off of rocks, the scraping doesn't sound as bad as the thinner paddles. However, it's definitely sounds worse than the carbon/nylon blade I hadbefore.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory"Life is too short to paddle with and ugly paddle." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 dee, i try my damnedest to avoid with rocks, as far as treatment of paddles in concerned. why on earth would you deliberately push off with your poor old paddle blade? no wonder you're concerned with all these formulae for tensile strength components...a paddle is only a paddle, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 >dee, i try my damnedest to avoid with rocks, >as far as treatment of paddles in concerned. why on earth >would you deliberately push off with your poor old paddle >blade? no wonder you're concerned with all these formulae >for tensile strength components...a paddle is only a paddle, >after all. Hopefully, one day I will have the skills necessary to be able to avoid all of those rocks. During the rough water workshop, I was blown onto the rocks twice, once when launching from a beach, and once while trying to keep Adam and Jonathan off of some rocks. Actually, quite a number of NSPNers found themselves on some rocks that day. So how do you get yourself off of the rocks while the wind is keeping you on them and you have no water to paddle in?Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 oh, dear: dare i say it? if the wind is too strong, then you shouldn't be out in it, perhaps?goodbye for now, over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leonard Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 >dee, i try my damnedest to avoid with rocks, >as far as treatment of paddles in concerned. Come on Christopher,Where is the fun in that? :-)John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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