rough water tows/rescues

[Guest guest]

After reading about several dicey weather situations, and after experiencing a small taste of rough water, I have a question that I think has been touched on before.

If you have a paddler you need to help get back on course, how do you make the decision of how to attach yourself to this other boat without it causing both of you more harm. For instance, it would seem to me that putting the shortest tow on possible, that still allows both people room to paddle/brace would be a good idea.

But, if the paddler who is struggling is also unstable due to bonking, inexperience, merves. etc. (which the rescuer might not know), then being attached to a capsized boat by a short tow seems like it could hinder the rescuer's manueverability when trying to rescue the person. On the other hand, a long tow would potentially take too much precious time while the rope was playing out if the conditions were quickly taking the paddlers in a bad direction. Would you need to attach a short-ish tow that you could lengthen at a moments notice? Wouldn't that be very hard in conditions that require both your hands on the paddle and esp. if you are also wearing gloves?

--b

[eneumeier]

>But, if the paddler who is struggling is also unstable due

>to bonking, inexperience, merves. etc. (which the rescuer

>might not know), then being attached to a capsized boat by a

>short tow seems like it could hinder the rescuer's

>manueverability when trying to rescue the person. On the

>other hand, a long tow would potentially take too much

>precious time while the rope was playing out if the

>conditions were quickly taking the paddlers in a bad

>direction. Would you need to attach a short-ish tow that you

>could lengthen at a moments notice? Wouldn't that be very

>hard in conditions that require both your hands on the

>paddle and esp. if you are also wearing gloves?

If you are paddling with a minimum of 3 people, even more important in the conditions you are describing, one person can stabilize the struggler while the other attaches the tow line and plays it out. The support paddler can paddle next to and keep talking to the struggler to see if instability is a problem. If so, the support paddler can quickly move into position for the struggler to lean on, making a rafted tow if necessary.

Liz N.

[oldsalty]

That's right. Paddlers, Ramans, and Frenchmen come in threes.

[Brian Nystrom]

I have two tows with me at all times. The first is a 3' contact tow that's attached to the deck rigging in front of the cockpit. It can be used on either side of the boat, with either hand. It's purpose is mainly for use where "Quick and dirty, clip and GO!" is the rule and speed is critical. A good example of this would be when pulling someone away from rocks or surf. I can clip to their bow or stern in a heartbeat and get them moving quickly. This short tow can also be used with an unstable paddler, by having them lean on my boat.

For open water towing, I use a longer tow rig. I have it daisy chained to ~20', but it can be adjusted shorter or be extended up to 50'. The bigger the waves, the more distance you need between the boats in order prevent a collision, particularly when running downwind. The long tow is also useful if you need to throw someone a line.

[Guest guest]

imho, time in your boat on both the part of the rescuer and rescue-ee seem to be the big determining factors. there are a bunch of different scenarios that could play out and time in the saddle in varying conditions is mostly going to be what determines what happens.

essentially rescue-ee gets out of the sh** either by rescuer pushing the bow, having rescue-ee physically hold onto rescuers boat, a short tow or long tow.

rescues aside...the situation you were in on saturday was all about your skeg.

the skeg "locks" the stern of your boat in the water just like the bow is "locked" in when you are under way. the pressures at both ends of the boat are roughly equal (please, no physics lessons - this is simplified) and so the boat goes in a straight line unless the pressure becomes unequal, ie, a sweep stroke, a big wave at either end, etc. since you had the skeg locking the back end in and were travelling beam to both the wind and the waves, both ends of the boat were being pushed towards shore equally and so while you were paddling forward, the boat was travelling diagonally towards shore (crikey, danger-danger-danger). your sweep stroke was made much less effective because now the stern of your boat is locked in and your sweeps probably weren't up to what you normally do because you were in a new boat in rough water and so likely not edging like you can or really reaching out with the paddle.

if you retract the skeg, the back end is freed and your boat would have weathercocked into the seas and into the wind which was exactly the direction you wanted to go towards safety. voila, you paddle out calm as a cucumber and none of us woulda been the wiser.

i know we all discussed this at Liz's and bring it up because not everyone was there and this is a good illustrative point.

the skeg is useful...except when it isn't useful! know how your boat works and why it works that way and then paddle accordingly.

hats off to you and everyone else who was there this weekend. it was a rough and very cold day and to go out in that, especially those folks without a roll, shows a lot of commitment to learning how to be safer on the water and just having a whole lot more fun in general!

yippee, it's rough water season! now, if it were just warmer...

[Guest guest]

>rescues aside...the situation you were in on saturday was

>all about your skeg...

>

Bethany wasn't sure that her skeg was down, and mine was most decidedly up. There is another discussion about those conditions, but in short, most of us did not experience weathercocking on Sunday. My boat was being forced broach to the waves. If I didn't fight this course with lots of sweep and rudder strokes, my boat would have been blown towards the rocks like Bethany's. I was quickly getting tired and would have been hard pressed to continue on that course for much more than an hour.

The surprising lack of weathercocking distracted me for a while. When we headed back to the Cove looking for Bethany, Adam, and Rick, I tried a J-lean into the wind and found some improvement. It was a little weird sweeping on the right while leaning to the left, but it was easier than not leaning at all and much better than leaning away from the breaking chop.

Dee Hall

Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory

[Guest guest]

point is that the skeg is not a magic bullet to be deployed when you get in rougher water. unlike a rudder (yech) that you can use to direct your boat by simply deploying and turning, a skeg works quite differently. we need to be aware of those differences and all understand that there is a big difference between reading and understanding and then applying and doing.

bethany had her skeg down and in my experience, her boat did exactly what you would figure it to do given what we saw on sunday which is be blown by the beam sea/winds into the rocks. retract the skeg and my experience leads me to believe that the bow comes around.

your remark about leaning into the winde one way and sweep stroking on the opposite side of the boat is outside of my experience. all the things i've read, been taught and done lead me to be more comfortable with a sweep stroke and then lean on that same paddle side - it's where the support is if i blow the lean or a wave comes along. next time we paddle together, please teach me that one - whatever works is what works, there aren't that many hard and fast rules and i'd like to try it.

[Guest guest]

Well, I was asking in general, but as for my experience on Sunday, that's extremely helpful to hear -- the leaning/turning description -- I love the way I can now lean this boat (my last boat required rigorous pilates training to edge...and I never undertook said training), but leaning to turn on Sunday while perpendicular to the wave direction put my boat in what felt like a very unstable position, and I think that was definitely part of the problem.

--b

[Guest guest]

and Oldsalty what's a raman

[Guest guest]

What? Raman isn't still 10/$1?

Heh. The Ramans were a poetic, ritual-oriented people (ancient India), though maybe they had nothin' on George Clinton. Hmm. But, I *think* when they come in threes they are a sci-fi reference to Arthur C. Clark inhabitants of the future and the cause of geek talk about checking things three times coz it's "good enough for the Ramans."

[Guest guest]

>your remark about leaning into the winde one way and sweep

>stroking on the opposite side of the boat is outside of my

>experience. all the things i've read, been taught and done

>lead me to be more comfortable with a sweep stroke and then

>lean on that same paddle side - it's where the support is if

>i blow the lean or a wave comes along. next time we paddle

>together, please teach me that one - whatever works is what

>works, there aren't that many hard and fast rules and i'd

>like to try it.

There is no doubt that I am more comfortable leaning on the paddle side of the sweep stroke. However, in the case of beam seas, one would be leaning away from the waves, and I am even less comfortable with that.

Note that if I am already leaning away from the sweep side, I can continue with a bracing turn, although on Sunday, I had to continuously sweep to make any progress towards the wind.

Perhaps one of the experts can tell us what we should be doing under such circumstances.

Dee Hall

Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory

[Guest guest]

Depends where you shop. / (Chopsticks) Memories of egg drop soup in the Sierras. Do you know you can wax a raw egg (rub it with a candle to seal the outer pores) and it will keep for a month. Make those Coughlan's egg carriers make sense.

[Guest guest]

>There is no doubt that I am more comfortable leaning on the

>paddle side of the sweep stroke. However, in the case of

>beam seas, one would be leaning away from the waves, and I

>am even less comfortable with that.

>Note that if I am already leaning away from the sweep side,

>I can continue with a bracing turn, although on Sunday, I

>had to continuously sweep to make any progress towards the

>wind.

>

>Perhaps one of the experts can tell us what we should be

>doing under such circumstances.

Well, I'm certainly no expert, nor am I even remotely close to being as experienced, knowledgeable, or skilled as Rick, but I'll throw my hat into the ring.

In windy conditions with steep, confused, wind-driven waves, I've had good success by turning on the wavetop. Especially with steep faced waves, the ends will typically be out of the water, making for a much shorter waterline. That's the time to apply the lean and sweep (both on the same side). It's also the time when you don't need to worry about being leaned away from the waves. A well applied sweep stroke (bow to stern, no half-measures) is quite capable of turning an 18' boat 90 degrees or more if applied with intent at the top of a wave.

My dos centavos,

Ciro.

"Leaders don't swim" - Gordon Brown

[Guest guest]

>>Perhaps one of the experts can tell us what we should be

>>doing under such circumstances.

>

>Well, I'm certainly no expert, nor am I even remotely close

>to being as experienced, knowledgeable, or skilled as Rick,

>but I'll throw my hat into the ring.

>

I should probably add that if you're looking for an EXPERT opinion, that there are a number of excellent ACA and BCU certified coaches in the area with incredible amounts of knowledge and experience. A lesson with some of them is a bargain at twice the price, in my opinion. I won't name any names - everyone already knows my preferences.

Ciro.

"Leaders don't swim" - Gordon Brown

[Guest guest]

>In windy conditions with steep, confused, wind-driven waves,

>I've had good success by turning on the wavetop. Especially

>with steep faced waves, the ends will typically be out of

>the water, making for a much shorter waterline. That's the

>time to apply the lean and sweep (both on the same side).

>It's also the time when you don't need to worry about being

>leaned away from the waves. A well applied sweep stroke (bow

>to stern, no half-measures) is quite capable of turning an

>18' boat 90 degrees or more if applied with intent at the

>top of a wave.

Yeah, I was trying to turn on the tops of the waves, but I was catching a lot of air with my paddle. I was not comfortable enough in leaning down-wave enough to get my paddle in the water. Perhaps it helps to have a less boyancy and longer arms.

Dee Hall

Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory

[Guest guest]

No expert here, but this move was covered in Nigel Foster's Directional Control (aka Wind and Waves) class last July. The steps to turn into a strong wind are:

1. Initiate the turn with one sweep on the outside.

2. Continue the turn with a bow rudder on the inside.

3. Watch in amazement as the wind blows your stern around and points you upwind.

Edging to the outside of the turn makes it more effective but it still works without it.

Now the detail:

A hull underway has a lot of pressure on both sides of the bow (the moving hull presses against the water) and relatively little pressure on both sides of the stern (the wake of the hull causes turbulence towards the stern). Therefore, a force from the side--in our case the wind--encounters more resistance at bow and less at the stern, so the stern gets pushed down wind more easily than the bow. This creates the windcocking effect where the bow appears to head up into the wind.

When the hull is not moving through the water, the pressure on bow and stern is equal, so the wind has equal effect on both ends of the boat. This is why drifting boats turn broadside to the wind: the resistance of the hull is the same bow and stern.

A skeg increases the underwater surface area at the stern which offsets the lower water resistance at the stern due to turbulence. At the right setting of the skeg, the resistance of a larger surface area at the stern (hull plus skeg) in a lower pressure zone will equal the resistance of a smaller surface area (hull alone) in the higher pressure zone at the bow. With a balance of resistance, the boat is neutral to the wind and does not weathercock. Usually this is good as you want to go straight when beam to the wind. But as Rick argues, this can be bad if you want to turn instead. In effect, a neutral hull acts like it is drifting (beam to the wind) even when moving!

The reason for having an adjustable skeg is that the pressure on the ends changes with both boat speed and wind speed. As boat speed increases, turbulence in the stern increases, which lowers pressure and therefore resistance to the wind. And as wind speed increases, it will have more turning effect for a given difference in underwater resistance. In other words, the faster you paddle and the stronger the wind, the more you will weathercock and the more skeg you'll need to show to balance the forces.

You can increase the surface area at the stern without a skeg by trimming the boat to ride lower in the stern. I do this with my Arluk III by repacking heavier gear in the stern hatch; Adam does the same thing every time he paddles with a gallon jug of water in the stern of his North Cove. The Mariner series of kayak has a movable seat to adjust trim on the move.

So how do these principles help you turn in high winds? Keep track of the high pressure and low pressure zones. Where there is high pressure on the hull, don't try to push that end of the boat around. Where there is low pressure on the hull, either pull that end of the boat sideways through the water with a paddle or let the wind push that end of the boat around. In short, make turns easy by moving the low pressure end and not fighting the high pressure end.

In the scenaio Bethany and Dee propose (turn from a beam wind to up wind), there is a lot of pressure on the moving bow and the wind is from the side. So a sweep is not particularly effective: the bow is 'locked in' as Rick and others point out. And any progress you make in turning is quickly undone during stroke recovery by wind pushing on the stern (which is in the low pressure turbulence zone).

So what's a paddler to do? Use the forces of nature! What Nigel taught us is:

1. Start with a sweep to initiate the turn (sweep offside or outside the turn, in this case the down wind side). This continues forward motion and also creates a momentary momentum into the turn.

2. Immediately switch to a bow rudder on the inside of the turn (in this case the up wind side) to continue the turn. Bow rudders are quite effective in turning the boat despite the high pressure zone at the bow. Why? Because the angled blade at the bow creates an even higher pressure on the outside. In effect, the bow is still locked in, but you are adding adding additional pressure with the blade so the overall pressure (blade and hull) on the ouside is relatively higher than on the inside. In a wind, a bow rudder has the added advantage of being continuously effective (as long as you have forward motion) while a sweep is intermittant.

3. In a side wind, a bow rudder also creates a power steering effect. In addition to turning, a bow rudder also REALLY increases surface area under water at the bow, acting much like a skeg. But since you still have forward motion, there is still wake turbulence and therefore low resistance on the sides of the stern. The power assist comes from the wind which is now your friend: it blows the stern around the anchored bow. It's super weathercocking! Now you're headed up wind and out to sea.

A couple of additional comments:

Forward motion is critical for two reasons: First, a bow rudder only works while underway. Second, forward motion creates the low pressure zone at the stern that makes the wind assist effective. The faster you are moving, the better this turn works.

Edging also makes the turn more effective as it decreases the length of the boat in the water and (depending on the shape of the hull and assuming you are edging to the outside) also creates in effect a curved or turning keel. (By the way, edging in either direction assists a turn once the turn momentum is initiated. Try it! Apparently, the effect of a shortened hull is greater than the effect of carving on the chine.)

Having the skeg down decreases the effectiveness of the turn since it's purpose is to offset the differences in pressure bow and stern. Properly handled, the difference is an advantage for a turn!

Timing the turn so it happens on top of a wave makes the move a whole lot easier, for the reasons Ciro points out. It's edging on steroids!

The same technique also works without wind on the face of a breaking wave (whether just about to break, just breaking or in the soup). You want to skip the sweep (too unstable) and reach over the top of the wave to plant a bow rudder as the wave hits you. In this case, the lateral force of the wave (rather than the wind) pushes the loose stern around the planted bow and voila you are headed out to sea. This can be a very valuable escape move when a wave threatens to side surf you onto rocks or a cliff.

If you have both wind and waves coming from the side, you can time it so BOTH are pushing your stern around.

Like anything else, it takes practice to get the timing and balance down to make it work, especially in rough conditions. And you gotta have the strokes (e.g. a good bow rudder).

The same basic forces are at work in the three other turns relative to the wind (upwind to beam, beam to downwind, downwind to beam). You use a combination of the sweeps, bow rudders, and stern draws relative to the differential pressures on the bow and stern. And take advantage of power assists from winds and waves. Nigel Foster's video/DVD on Directional Control covers these moves.

Finally, I'd echo Ciro: to really learn this stuff, take an on-water class from the professionals.

Scott

[djlewis]

Thanks, Scott, for the excellent explanation.

One point I'd like to hear more about regarding sweeps to initiate turns is Karen Knight's advice to emphasize the stern part of the sweep more than the bow part. In fact, she actually calls it a stern draw rather than a sweep. This seems consistent with the differential pressure phenomenon.

--David.

[Brian Nystrom]

Nigel advocates using only the back half of a sweep stroke in some situations. You can use one or more of these in rapid succession to intitiate slippage at the stern, then switch to a bow rudder when turning upwind.

The stern draw is similar to a hanging draw, except that the paddle is held well aft of the cockpit and it pulls the stern around. A sweep or half-sweep into a stern draw will accomplish much the same thing as a sweep into a bow rudder, but it's less stable and when turning upwind, you risk having the stern swing around and overrun the paddle, causing a capsize. IIRC, Nigel recommended the sweep-to-stern-draw for turning downwind from a beam-to position. The idea is to anchor the stern and let the wind/waves push the bow downwind.

With a stern-draw-to-bow-rudder, the bow is anchored and the boat is swinging away from the paddle and cannot overrun it, so it's safer to use when turning upwind.

[adelavega]

>The steps to turn into a strong wind are:

>

>1. Initiate the turn with one sweep on the outside.

>2. Continue the turn with a bow rudder on the inside.

>3. Watch in amazement as the wind blows your stern around

>and points you upwind.

This is a very effective turn, but can be uncomfortable in conditions if people are already, well... uncomfortable in the conditions. An instructor I worked with this year had us doing a modified version that was somewhere between a bow rudder and a draw. Or maybe it's better described as a high brace that was slid just a bit forward on the boat. The effect was essentially the same, but the position felt less vulnerable to me than the classic bow rudder

Now the geeking part...

>Now the detail:

...

>In the scenaio Bethany and Dee propose (turn from a beam

>wind to up wind), there is a lot of pressure on the moving

>bow and the wind is from the side. So a sweep is not

>particularly effective: the bow is 'locked in' as Rick and

>others point out. And any progress you make in turning is

>quickly undone during stroke recovery by wind pushing on the

>stern (which is in the low pressure turbulence zone).

?? If the wind is beam and the stern is not locked the wind should push it down and weathercock the boat. It should not undo the progess of a turn, unless something else is going on. I'm not sure what it might be, but my best guess is that the force of a beam wind creates some pressure on the entire down wind side of the boat. Even that doesn't seem to explain it to my satisfaction... If wind and waves are from the same direction perhaps the increased wave pressure on the bow (when you get turned maybe 10 or 20 degrees) is enough to push you back to a broached position?

>Edging also makes the turn more effective as it decreases

>the length of the boat in the water and (depending on the

>shape of the hull and assuming you are edging to the

>outside) also creates in effect a curved or turning keel.

>(By the way, edging in either direction assists a turn once

>the turn momentum is initiated. Try it! Apparently, the

>effect of a shortened hull is greater than the effect of

>carving on the chine.)

I think the strength of this differs based on hull shape. There are so many factors to consider. In a hard chine boat with little rocker, you might not reach the break even point. I made myself nuts for months trying to master the low brace turn in my old cheasapeake until I took a class up at MIKCo and Tom told me to give up... "that just isn't going to work well in *that* boat". The new greenlander pro still doesn't love the inside lean, but at least it doesn't come to a sudden standstill.

I would echo the comment "try it". It's the best way to know what combination will spin your boat nicely and which will have you wallowing.

[Jed]

Amy,

The technique that your instructor showed you is classic BCU 4* stuff and in my experience is the safest way to turn into the wind in challenging conditions. The advantage of holding the paddle further from the boat than during a flat-water bow rudder is the bracing component that it offers and of course it also allows you to toss in a bow draw as the boat crests the wave with ends out of the water.

Regarding the tendency for a boat to return to a broach position even as a paddler tries to sweep their way into the wind:

No answers here just questions and loose thoughts. As the boat starts to turn upwind as a wave approaches I would expect the wind to act more strongly on the now higher bow (in the main air-stream) while the stern is still within the eddying air current in the lee of the wave. These opposing forces acting on opposite ends of the boat would seem to encourage returning to a broached orientation. So I see it as a matter of maximizing the turning force to coincide with a boat position that sees the wave slightly aft of amidships. In this orientation the eddying air currents would tend to push the bow into the oncoming wind as the stern is being pushed down wind. Possibly a rough water paddler might want to initiate the turn while the boat is experiencing balanced wind effects and then a sharp sweep to your modified bow rudder / bow draw as the boat crests the wave.

Rick and Ciro's comments about turning at the top of the wave while edging and sweeping on the down-wind side is well supported by my experience as well. But as you know this requires commitment to and confidence in the paddle, something that comes only with time, experience and exposure to these kinds of conditions.

For others that find themselves interested in such conditions I would only recommend learning to feel how to control the boat rather than concerning yourselves with understanding the physics involved. A deep understanding of physics has never been a requirement to learn how to paddle well and understanding the mechanics of fluid theory will never ensure mastery of paddling in conditions.

Cheers,

Jed

jluby@teamnorthatlantic.com

Life is too short to own an ugly boat.

[Jed]

Hi Brian,

>The stern draw is similar to a hanging draw, except that the

>paddle is held well aft of the cockpit and it pulls the

>stern around.

There are various versions that are loosely classified as stern draws. Nigel's version that you describe might be called a "hanging stern draw" to differentiate it from the standard stern draw. Much as a hanging draw compares to a standard draw and a bow rudder (a hanging bow draw?) compares to a bow draw.

>With a stern-draw-to-bow-rudder, the bow is anchored and the

>boat is swinging away from the paddle and cannot overrun it,

>so it's safer to use when turning upwind.

And all that good and accurate information aside, it's just plain fun to perform, not to mention that chicks dig it!

Cheers,

Jed

jluby@teamnorthatlantic.com

Life is too short to own an ugly boat.

[djlewis]

>>The stern draw is similar to a hanging draw, except that the

>>paddle is held well aft of the cockpit and it pulls the

>>stern around.

>

>There are various versions that are loosely classified as

>stern draws. Nigel's version that you describe might be

>called a "hanging stern draw" to differentiate it from the

>standard stern draw.

I think Karen Knight was referring to a "standard" stern draw, that is, roughly the second half of a forward sweep. That's certainly what she demonstrated. Though I did not get a chance to ask, I beleive the theory is consistent with the differential pressure, bow vs stern. Since the stern is easier to slide sideways when moving, concentrate on the part of the sweep that draws the stern at the expense of the part that pries the bow. Make sense?

--David.

[Suz]

And thank the lord that physics isn't a required course as I would never be allowed on the water!

I am struggling to just absorb all the info as I sit here in my chair at work wishing I could be paddling instead...

[Jed]

>I think Karen Knight was referring to a "standard" stern

>draw, that is, roughly the second half of a forward sweep.

>That's certainly what she demonstrated. Though I did not

>get a chance to ask, I beleive the theory is consistent with

>the differential pressure, bow vs stern. Since the stern is

>easier to slide sideways when moving

Insert "forward compared to the bow" .

> , concentrate on the

>part of the sweep that draws the stern at the expense of the

>part that pries

Replace "pries" with "is unable to pry"

> the bow. Make sense?

Voila!

Jed

jluby@teamnorthatlantic.com

Life is too short to argue over theories that cannot be confirmed in the course of our daily lives.

[adelavega]

>And thank the lord that physics isn't a required course as I

>would never be allowed on the water!

>

>I am struggling to just absorb all the info as I sit here in

>my chair at work wishing I could be paddling instead...

Oh contraire! If it were the only requirement, I might be the four star, instead of Ciro... IIRC he and I first met when I dragged his sorry ass kicking and screaming through quantum class. I like to think of it as a down payment on future tows when the real life shite hits the fan. Apparently, *applied* physics is his true calling ;-)