Radar, Kayaks and Fog

[Bolonsky Adam]

An NSPN event a few years back in Newburyport with the Coast Guard pretty much proved it on an informal basis: don't count on it.

Three years ago the Maine Sea Grant Extension at the College of the Atlantic proved it on an exhaustive basis: don't count on it regardless of what you're equipped with in terms of metal reflectors.

In the two minutes a boat has to distinguish us from clutter and chaff we will have collided.

pdf link (you'll need a good half hour to wade through it):

http://www.seagrant.umaine.edu/extension/coastcom/raref.htm

Best defense: securite calls on VHF 16 that reference your working channel.

The calls work even if they make listeners impatient.

[EEL]

>

>Best defense: securite calls on VHF 16 that reference your

>working channel.

>

>The calls work even if they make listeners impatient.

Well, this is a great topic for discussion as a new season starts and just to prime the pump I think the best defense is care in where you put your boat and relying on the radio will give a false sense of security. I'm sure how you approach this depends on where you paddle so perhaps I am being parochial in this response.

To me, the boats that scare me the most are lobster boats when they are pulling traps. They seldom if ever listen to 16, they often are playing music loudly, and if not the engine noise is loud. they are moving erratically and at rather high speed. Consequently, getting their attention via making noise is usually an exercise in futility and trying to raise them on the radio not much better. In any event they are working and don't want to be bothered by crayons. Which is fair enough. If you want to use the radio, the best bet is to find their chatter freq. and try that, but what are you going to say?

If anyone has hints about how to judge distance and direction of sounds in the fog I would really like to hear them.

People who have spent time in the fog tell me they are also scared by sailing vessels since they can appear out of no where and without warning, but using sound can help.

So it seems to me the best defense is to pick crossing with great care, stay close to shorelines/shallow water, develop a good set of ears, and be able to change course and speed fast.

The other thing I would appreciate hints on is dealing with the problems of navigating a crossing in current when you need to stop every now and then in the fog to scope out whether the boats you hear are threats.

Ed Lawson

[jonsprag1]

you know something that might work is a transponder style of radio which transmits a signal that can be pick up on a vessels radar---rather like an epirb or elt in an aircraft---do any of you techies out there know if such a device has been marketed for seakayakers---I remember being in LL Beans last year and seeing an emergency transmitter designed for kayaks and other small boats but I recall it worked off satellites----this would have to be specically designed to transmit on the radar frequencies.

[JohnHuth]

Evasive action is the only thing you can count on. Last year, I played with all sorts of improvised radar reflectors, and they just don't hack it. Also, forget VHF - although if you can tune into the frequencies that the lobstermen use, you can sometimes figure out where they're going.

I mainly rely on my sense of hearing and I can usually tell the bearing and speed of lobster boats by the direction of the sound and the RPM of the engine.

In parts of Maine, like around Mt. Desert Island, in the summer, it can be a real hazard. The lobsters move into the shallow ground in the summer and this really cramps up the space where the lobsterboats work.

So, my ears are what I use when it's all foggy.

[JohnHuth]

I've heard that the transponders don't work so well because you're too low in the water.

[EEL]

>you know something that might work is a transponder style of

>radio which transmits a signal that can be pick up on a

>vessels radar

I rather suspect there are NSPN folks whose day job is doing RF design so I will let them give the details, but trying to become more apparent on the radar screens of others by transmitting on the searching radar's freq. is fraught with lots of issues and simply not feasible.

As an aside i rather suspect in the fog the typical lobsterman likely pays more attention to the GPS showing pot locations than the radar.

John is right that lobstermen fish very close to shore at times and all you can do is hope they slow up in areas crowded with buoys.

Ed Lawson

[Guest _rick]

The transmitter you speak of is a radar transponder located in EPIRB. unit. It paints a signal on a radar screen after it detects a radar unit pointing to you. They are very expensive. Its purpose is to activate when you really need it. Of course subject to all the various laws around Safety of Life at Sea.

As far as lobstermen or any other boater.. Be proactive..never assume they know your there. You can be right dead right.

[Bolonsky Adam]

Here's one help:

Check the color scheme of the pot buoys in the water around you. If a lobster boat is at least visible, you'll know if he's eventually going to head your way: all lobster boats carry roofside a duplicate pot (buoy). If that pot matches the ones near you, he's likely coming your way at some point.

Won't work in fog though.

But the securite call helps in well-known transit areas. Say the passage off Eastern Point, Gloucester where the coast lifts east towards Thachers. Or say inner Boston Harbor when passing from the sugarbowl at Pleasure Bay over to Thompson. Make a securite call there and you'll likely be heard and if heard probably barked at too by some schmoe. But at least your presence will be known.

Even if lobstermen aren't always monitoring 16, most other boats can, are, and will.

[jonsprag1]

The lobstermen around Mount Desert aren't half so thick as elsewhere on the Maine coast---Try paddling in the Stonington or Vinalhaven areas if you want to see(or not see, depending on the fog) a lot of lobster boats-- In Stonington the lobster fleet tends, as a whole to be very careful in looking out for other boats, including kayakers---they know where we would be likly to to be and keep an eye out for us---most will even slow down when passing a group of kayaks to avoid a large wake. the major problem in Bar Harbor is the ferry to Yarmouth NS---the Cat---very big, very fast and very very scary---the first year it was in operation it ran into and sank a canadian fishing vessel in Yarmouth harbor. You haven't lived until you see that ship headed right towards you(you can see right down through the middle of her between the two catamaran hulls). I'm still interested in hearing what the techies have to say regarding a transponder type radio for use in the fog----I haven't seen one and have not heard anyone else say they have----as far as radar reflectors on a kayak, those MASKGI tests that are talked about show basically they are useless---I remember something about how they didn't show up on radar beyond 1/8 of a mile---I suspect that a transponder that had the power of a VHS handheld radio(5 watts) would have a much longer range than that.(at least a couple of miles if not more) the whole point is, however, making sure that the bigger boats are actually looking at their radar screen.

[gyork]

Adam, please remind the audience the proper protocol for making a "securite" call on channel 16. Thanks-Gary

[EEL]

>Adam, please remind the audience

In the same vein, are securite calls made on 9 as well as 16, what about the need to monitor 9 as well as 16, should we be hailing other than commercial vessels on 9 instead of 16, and does the CG in New England report weather alerts on 9 and 16? If so, then I guess we should always have a dual watch running when the radio is on.

Ed Lawson

[Bill Gwynn]

SAFETY SIGNAL: The radiotelephone safety signal consists of the word SECURITE (pronounced say-cure-e-tay) spoken three times. This signal indicates that the station is about to transmit a message concerning the safety of navigation or giving important meteorological warnings.

[Ben Fuller]

You are traveling in the lobsterman's work place. Depend only on avoidance. They use radar and alarms to deal with the big stuff but are usually head down working, pretty much the way that I suspect that most of us are working.

You can hear lobster boats and that is your chief defense. If you can hear them, they can hear you. You'll note that the music is turned down in the fog. Plastic foghorns are deafingly loud. If you are in a party, give some one foghorn duty. Don't rely on an airhorn: they corrode.

Sailboats are more difficult as you can't hear them coming..... but you should not be where sailboats live. And its likely that they are listening to the radio and for foghorns.

Avoid especially any point on a chart that has GPS coordinates written on it.

Fog is fun.

[Guest _rick]

Channel 16 is the international calling and distress frequency. It is monitored by all mandated vessels and the the Coast Guards. I would not use channel 9 but you can and is fully legal.

A securite call is like this......

"securite, securite, securite...hello all stations, for information concerning the movement of kayakers in the vicinity of xxxxx switch and listen to channel xxx. out"

on the other channel

"securite, securite, securite...hello all stations xxx of kayakers are in the vicinity of xxx, doing xxxxxx, they can be hailed as xxx on channel 16 or xx. OUT"

[EEL]

>Avoid especially any point on a chart that has GPS

>coordinates written on it.

Ben:

Thanks for that gem and other sage advice.

>

>Fog is fun.

Not there yet.

This might be moronically obvious, but the working side is always the starboard side and they approach pots a few points off the starboard bow in wind? If you need to think about this I suppose you are way too close, but curious.

Ed Lawson

[Bolonsky Adam]

Thanks for saving me the effort, Rick.

I can remember using a securite call off Rockport when NSPN was running rescue drills. We put out a securite to let others know we weren't in trouble but were practicing rescues.

Much later in the day I headed up to swim in one of the quarries in Dogtown. Parked on the street. Walked past the house where, I'll be damned, the Rockport day duty harbormaster was sitting on the porch talking to his friends. I overheard him say he'd taken our securite call that morning.

I went up to talk to him. He said they appreciated the call: once or twice eyeballing Rockport shoreside residents have telephoned in rescue calls when they've seen kayakers floundering around offshore. One time it was truly necessary. The harbormaster Rosemary Lesch showed up off Straitsmouth with a rescue ring and heave line.

Anybody else have radio anecdotes?

I've got several more, including stuff from the Outer Banks, from Muskeget with Mark Stephens, etc.

[Ben Fuller]

Lobster boats generally pick up on the starboard or right side as most lobstermen like the rest of the population are right handed. But some are not. Look at the boat. If the davit is rigged to the left it will circle left.

Ben

[Bolonsky Adam]

The CG will issue a securite on 16 if the weather is about to turn to hell (say huge thunderstorms.) They'll tell you where the storms are and where they are headed. (Heard one of these two years ago in Duxbury Bay. Two huge systems collided near Taunton.)

However, the securite will tell you to switch to 22a to hear the details.

These calls don't happen on 9.

So here's a strategy if traveling in a group on a hot day in August when the sky to the west starts to look monstrous:

You monitor your group's working channel AND 16 (most radios allow multiple channel scans). One paddler, rather than the entire group, has the job of making the channel switch to listen on 22a for the details. That way the group at large doesn't lose contact with one another.

Alternatively, ask one in your group to monitor 16 for a likely weather securite. If they hear one they switch to 22a to hear the details. They then hustle up the group's 72 or 68-watchers to give them the heads up.

It's a good strategy that keeps your bases covered.

(note: the below is my signature line. If it causes a lot of friction I guess I'll remove it.):

[EEL]

>Channel 16 is the international calling and distress

>frequency. It is monitored by all mandated vessels and the

>the Coast Guards. I would not use channel 9 but you can and

>is fully legal.

>

Rick:

I asked about 9 as I had heard that in New England the CG was trying to move routine hailing traffic to 9 due to excess traffic on 16, but in my limited experience from NH north I have never found 16 all that active. so I wondered if there was any need to watch/use 9 at all.

Ed Lawson

[Guest _rick]

Ed

Info on Channel 9 can be found here. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/boater.htm

Channel 9 is the "recreational" calling channel.

Your results may vary.

[jonsprag1]

Just one---a few years ago I got a new VHF---wanted to see if the transmission function worked---was at a local put in Searsport---called the SW Harbor CG station on channel 16 for a radio check---got a very irritated and officious voice(don't know if it was the Coasties or some local boat owner--didn't id himself) telling me to clear channel 16---no "reading you 5x5 etc"---well at least I know it worked.