Waterproof cameras

[brwells]

Part of the reason I took up kayaking is to expand my photography hobby. I would like to be able to take my digital SLR out on a paddle, but that would require a waterproof case and will be rather bulky.

Looking at reviews online the Pentax Optio W cameras seem to get mentioned more than others. But there are very few references from kayakers, so, anyone have recommendations for cameras or cases?

Brian

[cathyfoley]

I have a Pentax Optio and love it. Takes good "snapshot" type pics and is totally waterproof. Just rinse the salt off after a day of getting soaked. Although it has a zoom capability, its really totally useless for wildlife shots unless you are really close.

[Kevin B (RPS Coach)]

Brian,

We have the Olympus 720SW, which has been fantastic. Better reviews in general than the Pentax on cnet. Personally, I find the higher megapixel a good advantage and I also find the Olympus to feel more substantial in the hand. On the down side for me is the fact that it does not use SD memory cards like the Pentax. Check out cnet for prices too.

[Deb Millar]

We have a Canon Powershot A510, which has very nice video capabilities, especially for all those great pool rolling (or not rolling) shots. The camera itself isn't waterproof, but you can buy a Canon housing for it which works very well. A friend of ours has one and took pictures last week during a rough water rescue class we were in and the action was "frozen" very nicely -- including the water shooting out of our pumps.

Deb M

[ccarlson]

I have an older Pentax Optio, water resistant rather than waterproof. It takes decent snapshot pix and, so far, has survived the splashing and occasional dunking it gets. I suspect that a higher performance camera in a case would give better picture quality if that's important but the Pentax is fine for casual recording of a trip.

[brwells]

So its pretty much a consensus - just like the best kayak, paddle, light, radio, sock, gum, ...

I appreciate the responses - I think I will try a couple of the small cameras in a shop, but ulimately I think I will have to use my SLR with a case or waterproof bag. Now all I have to do is get better at paddling so I don't worry about losing the camera.

Brian

[BOB L]

Can we see the pictures?

[scamlin]

Brian:

I picked up the Pentax Optio WR last summer and have been mostly happy with it. Mine is the 2005 vintage 5 Meg version. I saw the 2006 version at 6 MP and it is significantly bigger to accommodate the larger LCD viewer. I like mine better due to the size and less drain in the battery. (I don't care about viewing pix; I'll do that when I get home. All I need to do is frame the shot).

The pluses are the size and the waterproof rating: no problems despite sitting in my PFD pocket and occasionally banging around outside on the tether. Better to very good pix. No protruding lens, even with 3X optical zoom, so it slides easily into a PFD pocket. Good battery life. So far, bomb proof. (I do expect the seals to give out some day). Did I mention how small it is?

The negatives? I miss the viewfinder: in full sun the image is barely adequate to frame the picture; sometimes I have to take off my sunglasses to see. But I have gotten used to it. Other quibbles: slow shutter (half or more second delay between depressing the shutter and the actual exposure; plus a second or two to process the picture). Mind you, I have it set on full resolution, which adds to the exposure times. Also, the small size makes it a bit hard to hold, paricularly with one hand, as I often do on the water. The smooth exterior doesn't give lots to hold onto. But with practice, no big deal. For the technically minded, it is not able to record images in raw format so you cannot process on your PC if you have the fancy software. For most uses, however, the in-camera processing is more than adequate.

If you are coming from a SLR world, you'll miss the range of lenses and especially the ability to use filters; I do. But it is an exellent point and shoot, and it is very handy to use on the water.

I sprang for a couple of 1Gb SD cards and don't regret it for a minute. Be sure to get extra batteries.

Scott

[EEL]

>

>I picked up the Pentax Optio WR last summer and have been

>mostly happy with it.

I think Scott has covered tha bases about right. If you want to take pictures of solid quality while paddling about, it is a great little camera. I have been impressed witht he quality of photographys and it does have many options in terms of how it takes pictures. If you want to enjoy photography, etc while kayaking and a film/SLR type, then maybe something else.

>(I do expect the seals to give out some

>day).

Pentax says to return the camera every year or two to have it checked and seals replaces as needed. I think this is a normal maintenance issue, but some may have a use and throw away view of equipment and replace as needed. Being a frugal yankee, I want to use stuff up, but also to take care of kayaking stuffs to get maximum use at the same time.

>

Ditto on the memory cards.

Ed Lawson

[brwells]

Excellent thoughts, everyone.

I will get the best of both worlds: Pentax Optio W20 for snapshots, ease of carrying and use, and an SLR case for when I want to use filters, telephoto, etc. to get nice photographs.

Thanks for the advice and sharing of experience.

Brian

[paddling_mango]

I have a canon SD300 - an ok portable camera - and a canon waterproof case for it that provides access to all the camera functions. It's been in and out of the water a lot and has not had any water leakage problems other than one of external hinge pins showing corrosion. Canon does recommend replacing the seal on the case perodically.

To use a set up like this you need either a dry lens cloth available at all times or some type of lens cap (or a calm day). These cases are designed for under-water shooting. When used kayaking I loose 50% of the shots do to large water droplets or their salty remains collecting on the glass plate in front of the lens and distorting the image (not that it isn't a cool effect once in a while but not all the time). I guess you could dry bag the whole case/camera combo and pull it out when you need it but then it wouldn't see much use.

[brwells]

Interesting. The water drop problem has not been mentioned in other places. But with an SLR case, for example, there is a glass "filter" that is attached to the front of the lens. I can see where this same problem will occur if the shots are taken above water. I wonder how the smaller point-and-shoot lenses work above water? The photos I have seen - especially Brad's taken fron his mounted camera - don't seem to have this problem.

Even more to think about.

Brian

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[Kevin B (RPS Coach)]

Brian,

With our Olympus, a water drop problem occurs once in a while; however, I find that a little dip of the camera in the water clears it up quite nicely.

[paddling_mango]

Tipping the case gets rid of 80% of the water the rest just spreads out across the Glass which is substantially larger than the waterproof cameras - about the size of a quarter. To be honest I put very little effort into keeping the camera dry, it's just sits under one of the deck rigging bungies (it's to big to fit in a pfd pocket) and with the lens glass cover pointed up it just is a natural spot to collect any water that comes it's way. There is definitely a solution to get by this problem I just haven't found it yet.

[ccarlson]

A quick swipe with the tongue abates the water drop problem nicely. As a bonus, replenishes the electolytes lost during aggresssive paddling ;-)

[bethany]

We have the Pentax Optio. I use it while kayaking just fine, except when I forget that droplets on the lens show up in pictures. I also use it professionally for taking pictures of jewelry I make because it has a truly kick ass macro lens. (I have the black square version of a couple iterations ago.) It has been on three or four continents, shoved in multiple bags and pockets and PFDs and survived very well.

[brwells]

Another "vote" for the Pentax. Finally, after seeing the setup that Bill and Brad have using this camera mounted on the bow, I will be picking up one of these cameras.

Thanks to everyone.

Brian

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[Brian Nystrom]

Being over 40 and unable to wear reading glasses while paddling (just try it sometime), I find LCD viewfinders to be utterly useless, especially in bright light. Unfortunately, none of the new crop of waterproof cameras that I've seen have optical viewfinders. Has anyone seen any models that do have them?

[hopefloats]

Can you explain what you mean by "raw format?" and "fancy software" Doesn't it save them as jpgs? Are you saying you can't open them if you have photoshop? What about on a MAC.

[bob budd]

"Raw format" is one entry for every pixel in the image. "jpg" is a compressed version of "raw". Some cameras allow only "jpg" output but many allow one to choose "raw" and also the degree of compression as well as other compression formats. The fancy software refers to software that accepts "raw" and produces the various compression formats and degrees. Personally, I shoot "raw" to get the most out of the picture and experiment with compression at home. The downside to "raw" is how many pictures you get on a memory card which may lead to changing memory cards on the water, etc.

[jason]

With RAW format you can fix the white balance and help with the lighting in a way that you can't with the JPG's.

[shewhorn]

Brian,

Have you considered a used Olympus E1? It's a full DSLR and the construction is fantastic (I'd say on par with my $4000+ bodies just in terms of actual body construction, it's really solid). They can be had on eBay for around $400 (I think they originally sold at around $1600 to $1800). You'd need a lens as well, not sure what they're going for on the used market. I mention this camera specifically because it's weather sealed. I saw a demo at one of the meets I sometimes go to and they literally pour water all over the thing. While this in and of itself is not amazing (I myself have a weather sealed DSLR) it certainly is given the price you can get these things at because I paid A LOT more for what I'm using.

Advantages... DSLR, you can put good glass on it (the camera is 5 megapixels... I'd almost ALWAYS choose good glass and lower resolution over more resolution and lower quality glass (such as that featured in point and shoots)... remember 5 megapixels to 10 megapixels is not a doubling of resolution (double the resolution of 5 megapixels would be 20 megapixels)).

Better control over DOF than point and shoots which have smaller sensors.

Faster response (less shutter lag than point and shoots, faster AF system).

Disadvantages:

It won't fit in a pocket.

High ISO noise performance isn't that great (but it should be better than most point and shoots). You'd have to make sure that it's secured well in a hatch before rolling so it wouldn't clunk around.

Anyhow... I figured I'd just float this as a possible option (pun intended and no it doesn't float LOL) even though it might not be ideal. It may not be ideal but the body is weather sealed and it's quite a durable little bugger too.

Cheers, Joe

[brwells]

Thanks, Joe, for your professional advice. WIth the E1 and similar DSLR's, it still appears that a waterproof bag is necessary if there is a risk of dunking the whole camera. Do you agree? If so, I will get one for the Canon DSLR's as I have so much invested in them. However, if the E1 can go under, it will certainly be a good solution.

Brian

P&H Capella 163

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[shewhorn]

The reps claimed that it could be dunked and I've heard stories of the 1DMkII geting dunked in a river for 20 to 30 seconds or so with no ill effects (you need to have an L lens on it with the rubber gasket around the collar though... that gets expensive). I certainly wouldn't want to test full submersion for any length of time. Maybe a very quick in and out dunking but that would be the end of my comfort level.

If you have a nice Canon DSLR I'm not sure I'd trust it even to a protective bag. I have friends who've tried to get away with doing beach shoots using Canon 20Ds using just the $200 bags which are supposed to be good for doing underwater stuff to a limited depth and they ended up ruining their cameras. Functional waterproof housings for DSLRs cost $1000, good ones are $2000 to $4000. They're REALLY expensive.

Check out this page...

http://tinyurl.com/wft3

This is what B&H offers for water proof and weather proof cases. It might give you some other ideas on cameras that might fit the bill when combined with a housing.

Here's a generic DSLR bag...

http://tinyurl.com/p9c85 (I wouldn't trust this underwater at any depth myself)

and another (the seal looks a little more substantial on this one)...

http://tinyurl.com/mofvv

Same thing but accomodates a hot shoe mounted flash. This strikes me as a bad idea as I'm thinking the only thing a flash will do underwater will be to illuminate ALL of the particulate between you and the subject. If you need to use flash above water though, this would be the ticket.

http://tinyurl.com/nywx3

For a zoom lens...

http://tinyurl.com/moxuf

For glass with a 72mm diameter (filter... think Canon L series)

http://tinyurl.com/mval7

Ooops... clients are here... gotta go.

Cheers, Joe

[brwells]

Joe, thanks so much for all of the advice. I have seen some of these and agree with what you say. Since I am not going to take underwater photos and just need protection against accidental dunking, I think it is a reasonable risk for my 20D. I might just use the 300D for the water, however. It makes nice photos.

I do know that first I will use a compact camera such as the Pentax Optio W20 until I learn more about kayaking so as to reduce the capsize risk. Then I hope to take advantage of the unique persepctives that we all enjoy out on the water with a DSLR.

Brian

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