Gillian

oy vey! ellen, glad you and your husband are safe, and welcome to wet and wild nspn general message board. it get's pretty fiery on here, but there are some very passionate paddlers, and then some very passionate paddlers who've been in your boat (no pun intended) and have been a bit luckier. most of us can't wait to share what we've learned about saftey, rescues, and equipment in a fun and safe environment, so i'm hoping you and your husband will come to some pool sessions, and some workshops so you can continue to paddle and feel confident in the skills that the group can help you attain, or fine tune.

How about parking and launching at Lane's cove and paddling over to Hodgkin's cove, which is perfect for rolling practice?

we could probably make a couple of the haverhill pool sessions rolling workshops for folks . . . it will be awhile before it's warm enough to practice in any comfort outside -

It's always presumptuous to volunteer others but here goes. Let's have a rolling session at Walden or Chebacco Lake where those who can roll and have an interest in sharing their skills show up to help those who don't roll but want to learn. I'd be happy to volunteer. Probably best in June when the waters are warmer. Along with learning some unconventional methods and promoting some on water disputations, this could a lot of fun.

i'd be happy to help instruct on rolling - you can put me down as volunteer if that get's scheduled

If you have one I will try to make it, but have a lot to do at work today so I might not get on the road early enough. If you don't have one, I'll just mess around in Boston Harbor for an hour or two when I leave work.

traffic is totally going to suck . . . i think we'll prob throw in the towel for tonight so do boston harbor since it's so much closer . .. .

Yes-if you take the day off and start before noon! I'd love to participate but just can't stand the traffic driving north after 3-4 o' clock. have the same problem with Chebbaco Lake. Too bad something closer south like Walden Pond isn't an option. Oh well I guess it is called the "North Shore Paddler's Network"!

ha i hear you . . . i would love to go to walden but have the same problem with traffic trying to get south!!

Hey there is anyone interested in a Forest River Session tomorrow??

Thank you to everyone who came to volunteer as safety boaters for Salem's Swim Fin festival on Saturday . . . although it was pretty flat and nobody needed rescuing, it was still an awesome day to be on the water!! This year we had Phil, Lorrie, Glen, Brian, Shaila, Gay, Ann, Bob, Gene, and crap am I forgetting anyone????

Thanks to Ann and Gay for helping me haul back me and my boats to the Willows!

Gillian and Kevin

Hey guys sorry for the late notice weather still crummy!!!!! We'll try for next week.

I'm tentative based on launch time-I can't do early.

Plans updated in original post.

hey there this weather blows . . . guys if you feel like coming to forest river, please come and practice but i'm going to bail on tonight especially since i would have had to leave after about an hour .. . not worth it in this crapola weather!!! see you guys next friday night!

Will try to make it....traffic and weather permitting.

Bob

yeah i agree - i can only stay until about 6:30ish tomorrow so if it's pouring i'm going to be lame and bail . . but i'll post here if that's the case . . . will play it by ear tomorrow

Well as to the first question, I'm taking Flomax so I don't think I'll need too many bathroom trips. As to the second, sure I've no problem with paddling with any of you guys-I'll just bring a chart-EPIRG-inflatable raft-6 day supply of water and food and Gillian.

hahahaha excellent! you bring me, i'll bring kevin, and we can both get a nice leisurly tow back to shore . . .

so after the lake session.....this may be the gerwurtzaminer typing but all i can think of is this crazy dick dale riff and yelling swim, you dirty rat, swim!

toss the paddle aside a ways...say a boat length....now, over you go...stroke til you get to the paddle....once paddle in hand, roll up....i'd forgotten how much fun this is! alas, it's been a looong boring winter...but rejoice, the sun is high in the sky and twilight takes a good long while to settle down!

FYI...make sure that breath before you go over the side is considerable....and what the hell, make sure it's your blade and you know what the feather is...that'll throw you...but you don't care...you took a big breath!

<insert riff here>

love the rat swim . . . also sure to get some applause if done in front of groups of non kayakers

Larry I think what Gene means, is did the group understand or not that he was just taking a snack break? Nothing to do with the radios. When Gene headed off to the beach, in his mind, the group was under the impression that he was taking a quick break on the beach and would re-join them. This is the same question I asked 4 posts ago - what did the group think? Did everyone in the group look at Gene and say okay Gene has clearly stated he's leaving the group and therefore, correctly, the responsibility ends there. What I keep wondering is how there could have been such off communiciation if this is the case? Meaning Gene thinks he's taking a snack break and the group thinks he's leaving for good? How's that possible? Is that what happened? Based on the lack of communication from a lot of folks in the group on this thread I'm guessing that this total difference of opinion between what the group thought and what Gene thought when they seperated is the case. That I find surprising but I agree with Gene that unfortunately the root cause of what happened is in that moment when he departed, with him and the group under totally different impressions.

"IF a paddler were to leave the group and it's collective efforts, then i don't see how or why there would be a reasonable expectation of distress - especially if that took place on a crystal clear day, no sea state and within sight of the launch."

Rick

"When I radioed that I was taking a break from the group I said I would rejoin the group."

Gene

Hey I gotta quick question, has this ever been resolved? It seems like some folks said Gene said he was going to go off and paddle by himself and leave the group, but in all of Gene's posts he says he was taking a snack break on the sandbar. I'm just wondering which is which? Did somebody or everybody misunderstand his intentions to go have a granola bar and come right back? Just curious as I'm trying to figure out what the heck I would have done in this scenario . . .

P.S. Rick I know in your quote you were just answering Ed and not implying that Gene went off on his own, your quote just reminded me that I was hoping for clarity on this . . .

Am I the only who doesn't see "take a navigation class paddling for 8 miles and not know where you are heading is just not a prudent thing to do.", etc. as contributing/germain to the discussion?

yeah, i agree, i'm not sure who dogfish is, he or she just signed on this morning. most likely a member of the coast guard aux. i do feel that all comments and suggestions from the coast guard are welcome on the message board, considering they work their butts off helping boaters in distress. However the issue that we're curretnly focusing on are the discrepancies between the group's thought that gene was leaving the paddle vs. gene thinking he was taking a break and coming right back, and the decisions that happened after that point. i agree that paddling for 8 miles not knowing where you're going is being sort of outside of the heart of conversation. i think everyone including gene, would say paddling for 8 miles in the wrong direction is not something anyone would wish for or hope to do - it happens when a paddler turns around and/or is in distress, which Gene has already expressly stated his own responsibility for.

Hey there, will be at Forest River this Friday start time 5:30ish - hoping for some sun!

I also think that you can NOT micromanage a CAM trip. You can not regulate safe practices within our model. Even within the OLD NSPN system we had rules and plans and regulations but no ability to enforce them and no time or manpower to manage the oversite.

Suz

Hey you're absolutely right about not being able to regulate a CAM trip . . . but something has changed since we implemented CAM as compared to the old trips where there was a clearly defined trip leader . . . even after Rick S. organized that huge CAM practice paddle last summer, where everyone agreed to shared responsibility while keeping in tact things like beach breifings and head counts, it seems like we're still struggling with how far to "lead" and not lead in a CAM trip . . . perhaps the nature of CAM tends to cripple decision making when someone in a difficult decision making situation would normally make a quick assertive decision, but now with CAM the same person is not enabled to be assertive? I'm not sure CAM in practice is working out so well so far . . . just kind of trying to think this through . . . sorry for the ramble

I remember being welcomed to the group by many individuals.

We are that group now and we will continue to be that group. The way to do that is to create the bonds within the group and they start at the beach briefing with the introductions and pairing up of people. It is a simple step but it creates a sense of "belonging" or ownership of the group. That's what NSPN is all about. Let's continue that legacy.

Suz

cool i'm really glad to hear that you and hopefully everyone feels that way and that this is what will be passed down to everyone . . .ps. thanks for watching kevin like a hawk that day

I just wanted to make a point here. There seems to be a lot of focus on Gene deciding to leave the group which led to the group moving on without checking he was with them. Now I wasn't there, but I do know I've paddled with Gene a number of times, as have most folks in NSPN, and never once have seen him leave the group. The impression I got was that he decided to take a snack break on the beach. Whether or not that was understood, or perhaps even incorrect, consider what may cause a person to take a break or leave the group:

a) fear of conditions

nervousness

c) diabetic shock - i'm not kidding, have you ever seen someone who's insulin just dropped? they're confused, not making much sense, start acting strangly etc. etc.

So if Gene "left the group" which everyone has stated was not advised by the paddlers on the water, the first thought may have been that either he's frightend of the conditions, he's in over his head, or something may be wrong with him physically. However it seems that none of these scenarios occured to the group.

None of these above mentioned things may be what happened, but had someone I've known (and you all know Gene) who tends not to paddle alone and usually goes on group trips, decided all of a sudden to "leave the group" I would be more worried about something perhaps being wrong, and less inclined to let that person go off on their own.

Just my 2 cents, after re-reading some of this.

I think that the group on the water did all they should do. Alert the CG when they knew that the paddler didn't make it back to the car.

Su

Suz, I remember a picture of Kevin's first ocean paddle and you have this intense look, watching over him like a hawk in that photo t make sure he was safe - you can see it from the look in your eyes. I have a feeling back in those days if anyone on that paddle had wanted, needed, or decided to take a break on the beach, whether advised or not, that person would have returned to the group when finished breaking, bar none, no questions asked. The thought that the group would have carried on their paddle despite failed attempts at communication, and decided an hour and a half later to call the authorities noticing the paddler had not returned simply would never have even been a potential scenario. In the worst of all worse cases and the group ended up back on that beach an hour and a half later less 1 paddler, I sincerely think you would have leapt to action, organizing a party back on the water to search and organize a party back on the land to coordinate with local authorities.

I just don't believe you when you say the group did what it should because you guys were the ones that instilled in us newer paddlers the all importance of safety, planning, and fellowship on the water. We're saying now that we're a CAM club all that goes out the window??

If that's the case I say we drop CAM and go back to led trips where all of us can use the skills, knowledge, and follow the tradition of safety and commraderie that made me want to be a kayaker in the first place. NSPN'ers are supposed to be the ones who risk themselves to help another and I know it's true because I've heard all the stories of people who have put themselves in somewhat questionable situations if a fellow paddler was in distress. Never once was a paddler left and someone said, well according to CAM we did what we could.

It just saddens me that folks coming up in the ranks of NSPN these days will not have the pleasure of learning what you guys once taught us.

Looking for early start times on Tues and Thurs and will being doing Salem Sound Friday in advance of the skills session that day. Suggestions beyond these parameters welcomed. One option may be a relative speedy trip around Cape Ann.

Note: This is Kevin posting....forgot to log G out!

I hope to join you.

Ern

yeeaaahhh!

Hey there! Each lake/practice session has someone qualified to teach you how to roll! Cathy's list was great and you can find each of those folks at the Chebacco, Amesbury, and Forest River sessions . . . Amesbury is on Wednesday's, Chebacco on Thursday's and Forest River on Fridays.

cool! now that i work in salem i will finally be able to make some of these sessions - this week is ladie's night so that wins out over chebacco but next week i will try to make it!