Valley Quarajaq

[Bill Gwynn]

Just read on another message board that the new Valley Quarajaq is in stock at the Kayak Centre in Wickford RI. My understanding is that it's a longer, faster version of the Anas.

[Brian Nystrom]

Unfortunately, they ruined it by making it available only with a keyhole cockpit. Ptooie!

[Bill Gwynn]

Hi Brian,

You would think that Valley would offer a choice in cockpits seeing as this particular kayak is aimed at the greenland crew. Is it really that difficult for them to make it either way as they do with the pintail?

[Brian Nystrom]

It does take a separate deck mold for the ocean cockpit, though I've often wondered if both styles could be incorporated into a single mold. It would seem that the larger keyhole cockpit might possibly be able to serve as a recess for an ocean cockpit. One mold could work for both, with the only differences being the size of the hole that's cut in the deck and the coaming that's installed.

[Bill Gwynn]

If they made the mold for the ocean cockpit, so basically they all start as ocean cockit boats, and then just simply cut the hole bigger for the keyhole cockpit. Does this make sense, or is there more to it than that?

[scamlin]

There is more to it than that. The whole shape of the deck around the opening changes, the height at various points is different resulting in different angles to fair the surface around the opening back down to the part of the deck that does't change. The thigh braces alone are at very different heights and location.

When Valley came out with a keyhole cockpit on the Pintail (late 1998?) they considered it quite an achievement because of the tricky retrofitting on a boat originally designed for an ocean cockpit.

A dual-style mold could be done but it would either involve significant compromises or additional glass or padding.

My guess is the reasong for the keyhole is that the ocean cockpit market is so small that it is uneconomic--not just the typically expensive deck mold but the cost of marketing and stocking multiple types of boats. Anybody want to guess the percent of ocean cockpits sold on new sea kayaks in 2004? 3%? 5%? 1%?

[Brian Nystrom]

- The Pintail and the Anas Acuta are nearly identical and the only other fiberglass oval ocean cockpit boat on the US market is the Boreal Ellesmere OC, which is essentially the same length. At least it offers an alternative to the weak tracking of the VCP boats.

- The NDK Greenlander is a high volume boat that doesn't appeal to most ocean cockpit paddlers and its round cockpit takes a skirt that's difficult to find, since only one company make it.

- There are no plastic boats with ocean cockpits since the VCP Skerry RM was discontinued. So much for the lower end of the sea kayak market.

...One has to really seek out the opportunity to try out an ocean cockpit boat and if none of the limited offerings suits you, you're out of luck unless you want to build a boat. If they were more readily available, the market for them would undoubtedly be larger. By not offering them in greater variety, manufacturers are ensuring that they will remain a very small percentage of boat sales.

[markstephens]

OK, I guess somebody should ask the obvious question then: Why would anyone want an ocean cockpit? What advantages does it have over other types of cockpit shapes?

Because they sure are harder to get in and out of!

[Brian Nystrom]

Actually, they're not difficult to get in and out of if the boat is designed with a low aft deck, which most are. It's mainly a matter of adjusting your technique to use the aft deck for sliding in and out. The foredecks on the the fiberglass ocean cockpit boats on the market are in the same height range as keyhole cockpit boats, so you have plenty of room under the deck. Don't use my boats as an example, since I pad mine down for a Greenland-style fit that requires a bit of wriggling to get in. You don't have to do that.

Ocean cockpits offer advantages in security and versatility of leg positions when paddling. The small cockpit provides full width support across your knee/lower thigh area. Unlike in a keyhole where your only usable position is with your legs splayed and hooked under the knee/thigh braces, you can position your legs anywhere across the width of an ocean cockpit. Want your knees together? No problem. Wide apart? Fine. Somewhere in between? Sure, it all works. This allows you to change your leg position for various strokes and maneuvers, or simply for a change of pace to work different muscles.

The full-width support means that you'll never fall out of the boat because your knee slipped off the knee/thigh brace. There's no gap in the middle to fall out through. I can honestly say that I've never come out of any of my ocean cockpit boats unless I wanted to. I have fallen out of keyhole cockpit boats on several occasions. It's really frustating to have to wet exit in a capsize simply because you slipped of the brace and couldn't roll.

Another often touted issue is that of spray skirt implosion if a wave dumps on a large cockpit, but with modern neoprene spray skirts on sea kayaks, this really doesn't seem to be an issue. I guess it could happen, but it seems unlikely.

[Ben Fuller]

Ocean cockpits have the additional advantage of making dealing with chart cases easy. A nice hard surface right in front of your instead of having to lean way forward or rig your chart case to flop over your spray skirt. About the only thing that is a little tight ( and my boat is an old Nordkapp SS ( low volume ) is sticking your feet in when you are face down on a paddle float or T rescue and then rolling into place.

[ccarlson]

Well,I have both an OC boat and a keyhole boat. Everything Brian says about the OC is true... once in the boat, the flexible leg and foot positioning provide more comfort and a the snug fit also affords good boat control. The biggest downside for me is entry and exit which I find always inconvenient and, in any surfy beach conditions, potentially hazardous if one is as clumsy as I. So,I think it becomes a matter of personal choice as each has its pros and cons. Get one of each;-)

[Brian Nystrom]

The Nordkapp is arguably the most difficult ocean cockpit boat to enter and exit, for three reasons that come to mind, all related to the aft deck height. First, the high aft deck makes it more difficult to maintain balance when sitting on it. Secondly, there relatively small difference between the fore and aft deck heights means that you have to enter at a steeper angle, rather than just sitting down and sliding in. The longer your legs are, the more of a problem this becomes. Third, the high aft deck makes it harder to push yourself up and out of the cockpit when exiting.

These problems are not present with the other ocean cockpit boats on the market.

BTW, I don't typically use the standard prone re-entry from the outside with ocean cockpit boats. It's much easier to come up between the boats and enter feet first from a supine/sitting position.

[Brian Nystrom]

My take on it is that I spend 99.9% of my time paddling and only .1% entering and exiting the boat. Yeah, it can be a hassle at times, but it seems like a reasonable trade-off.

[christopherG]

"...I don't typically use the standard prone re-entry from the outside with ocean cockpit boats. It's much easier to come up between the boats and enter feet first from a supine/sitting position."

and don't ever recollect seeing the nystrom come out of his boat -- and it has been quite a few years! perhaps in training...?

[Brian Nystrom]

I don't come out unintentionally very often, but still more often than I like to admit! :-(

[Ben Fuller]

Found the same thing with assisted entries, in on your back, between the boats. Its handy to have it around with new guide types who are used to similar equiment. Makes them open their eyes.

But the hassle factor is enough so that I don't usually teach out of the Nordkapp. Mine as an SS probably is a little lower in the back than the H series.

[alcoons]

For those of you, like me, who have no idea what is being compared, surf to

http://www.seakayakgeorgia.com/valley.htm

and scroll down to the Pintail pictures. They show both a keyhole and ocean cockpit.

Al

Keyhole cockpit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!