The outer layer

[jmm81]

There are a lot of options for cold weather gear. Wet suits, dry suits, dry tops, dry pants, etc. I’m guessing one would opt for a wet suit because of the relatively low price, and a dry suit for the comfort. But could someone explain why they’d choose separate dry top/pants combinations over a one-piece? Since they exist there must be a market for them. I’ve also come across a new product that seems to be a skin tight dry suit (www.seasonfive.com). Could anyone explain all this? Have I missed any other options?

[bob budd]

A dry suit provides more protection from cold water (and air) than a wet suit. Most people transition from one to the other as the water/air warms/cools.

Some people find a wet suit sticky, clammy, etc. and thus would find dry suits more comfortable but the breathability of a dry suit is a factor in its comfort. A wet suit is a bit easier to take on and off.

My wife started out with "separates" because they were alot less expensive than a dry suit. When the first dry suit wore out she bought another dry suit, i.e. she never again contemplated "separates". The thing is you might find you don't like winter paddling enough to justify the expense of a dry suit.

[Phil Allen]

Joe- there's a "rule" when it comes to dressing for paddling. Water temps between 50-60, wetsuit, less than 50, drysuit. It clearly depends on the person. That said, if you want to paddle between Halloween and May, the drysuit is the best option IMHO. Some of use drysuits until we switch to shorts and t-shirts.

Phil

[Suz]

There are a lot of options for cold weather gear. Wet suits, dry suits, dry tops, dry pants, etc. I’m guessing one would opt for a wet suit because of the relatively low price, and a dry suit for the comfort. But could someone explain why they’d choose separate dry top/pants combinations over a one-piece? Since they exist there must be a market for them. I’ve also come across a new product that seems to be a skin tight dry suit (www.seasonfive.com). Could anyone explain all this? Have I missed any other options?

For a good overview, I will be doing a cold water workshop at Charles River Canoe and Kayak. An abbreviated version tomorrow night and then a more expanded one during the day on Saturday. Reservations are required though. See their website: http://www.paddleboston.com/resources/coldwaterclinics.php

Basically, you can wear a wet suit or dry suit. Some wet suits are better than others for warmth (surfers wetsuits are far superior to "farmer john/jane" style). Depending on the temps, a thicker wetsuit is needed. Right now if you were using a wet suit it would be a "5/4" with a hood. It would be a combination of 5 mm and 4mm thicknesses and would have no zippers except a small one in the back and stretch at the neck to get in. These are really hard to get in/out of but are warm and safe for the water temps.

A dry suit that is made up of separates is less expensive and a sorry substitute for a full one piece drysuit. Basically it is VERY hard to mate the top to the bottom and prevent water intrusion. It is a guarantee that if you were swimming for any length of time, you would be wet inside. How wet would depend on how well the two pieces sealed. The other reason I find the 2 piece version to be a bit of a waste of money is that you can not use the bibs alone as they have shoulder straps and if they did fill with water, there would be no removing them as they would be under the life jacket/jacket and anything else you have on.

I am unfamiliar with the "season five" product and their website didn't work for me.

Suz

[bob budd]

I would not recommend "separates" but a guarantee of wetness for an extended swim does not stand up to Dee's (my wife's) experiences in leader training and otherwise with her first choice of garment. That is, while the garments are more difficult to put on and take off you can be as dry with them as with a one-piece dry suit. If you read elsewhere, you will also see someone who skimped on their dry suit and regrets it. Clearly a dry suit is a better choice if you can afford it, but from the point of view of comfort and convenience.

[Brian Nystrom]

I’ve also come across a new product that seems to be a skin tight dry suit (www.seasonfive.com). Could anyone explain all this?

A properly fitted full wetsuit should allow almost no water to enter, just tiny seeps at the neck, wrists and ankles. The drier it is, the warmer it is. A skin-tight drysuit doesn't make a lot of sense, since you give up one of a drysuit's biggest advantages: versatility. A loose dry suit allows you to choose your under layers to suit the conditions. You can't do that if it's skin-tight.

[pikabike]

There are a lot of options for cold weather gear. Wet suits, dry suits, dry tops, dry pants, etc. I’m guessing one would opt for a wet suit because of the relatively low price, and a dry suit for the comfort. But could someone explain why they’d choose separate dry top/pants combinations over a one-piece? Since they exist there must be a market for them. I’ve also come across a new product that seems to be a skin tight dry suit (www.seasonfive.com). Could anyone explain all this? Have I missed any other options?

I initially made that choice, and the reason was price, which seems to be the reason why others make the same choice. In my case, I chose a Gore-tex drytop and a coated nylon drypant. This combo had two serious problems:

1. As suz mentions, the two let in water around the waist. When I first tested it out by immersing myself, there was very little leakage. But as soon as I began swimming or otherwise moving around a lot, the water flooded in. And I do mean *flooded.* Baggy garments will let water in wherever the openings do not have latex gaskets--and as far as I know there is no product made with a latex waist gasket.

2. The drytop stayed comfortably dry because it breathed--until the flooding began. The coated nylon drypants, however, left my lower half soaked whether in or out of the water. This surprised me, as I didn't think I sweated much there.

I quickly ditched the two-piece combo and went to a one-piece Gore-tex drysuit, thereby ridding myself of both the above problems.

The drysuit is reserved for very cold water, or for extended in-water practice in cool water.

I later supplemented the drysuit by wearing wetsuits of various types for the rest of the season. So for the last 4 years, I've happily used a shorty 2mm suit (short sleeves and shorts in a one-piece suit) for warm weather and a 3mm fullsuit for cool weather. All of them have been surfer garments rather than paddler-specific because the surfer neoprenes include some much stretchier grades than the usual stuff you see in NRS neoprene clothes. I like them because they are NOT baggy, but the downside is that I have to be sure that I've chosen the right suit for the right temperature. With a drysuit, it is easy to add air inside the suit when on land, to increase its warmth (or I could add another shirt inside).

Because previously I had found that Farmer Janes let tremendous amounts of water in through the neck and armholes, I stayed away from them. However, I got to thinking that if I could find a very stretchy sleeved top to wear under a very stretchy Farmer Jane, the combination might solve the flooding problem while being easier to peel off (to pee) than the one-piece suits. Also, having the shirt on underneath would mean less chilling than the usual near-strip routine on pee stops.

A few days ago I found what looks like the right pairing: a long-leg Farmer Jane that uses a super-stretchy 1.5mm neoprene (O'Neill's Bahia Jane), plus a long-sleeve shirt (Ripcurl G-Bomb 1mm neoprene "jacket") that is THE stretchiest neoprene I've yet checked out. This shirt will be worn under the Bahia Jane, and due to the combo's super stretchiness it probably will let very little water in. I'll wait another 6 to 8 weeks before testing it in the water because right now 2.5mm of neoprene is inadequate.

[jmm81]

Because previously I had found that Farmer Janes let tremendous amounts of water in through the neck and armholes, I stayed away from them. However, I got to thinking that if I could find a very stretchy sleeved top to wear under a very stretchy Farmer Jane, the combination might solve the flooding problem while being easier to peel off (to pee) than the one-piece suits. Also, having the shirt on underneath would mean less chilling than the usual near-strip routine on pee stops.

A few days ago I found what looks like the right pairing: a long-leg Farmer Jane that uses a super-stretchy 1.5mm neoprene (O'Neill's Bahia Jane), plus a long-sleeve shirt (Ripcurl G-Bomb 1mm neoprene "jacket") that is THE stretchiest neoprene I've yet checked out. This shirt will be worn under the Bahia Jane, and due to the combo's super stretchiness it probably will let very little water in. I'll wait another 6 to 8 weeks before testing it in the water because right now 2.5mm of neoprene is inadequate.

When wearing wetsuits, do you soak them before you get in the kayak, or do you try to stay as dry as possible for as long as you can? I have a brother-in-law that goes diving a lot. he fills his wetsuit with a thermos of hot water before going in.

[bob budd]

A wet (on the inside) wetsuit is going to keep you a bit warmer by sealing the suit to your skin. This is also responsible for the clammy feeling some complain about. Pouring something warm inside the suit would "presoak" and "preheat" it, possibly improving the initial warmth of the suit. I've never done such a thing, but I have dunked a wetsuit as it is easier to put on when wet on a hot day. I have also dunked the suit to cool it after an extended landing on a sunny day.

The fit of the suit is key, as has been mentioned above, as a looser suit is going to flush more water inside/through when you are (moving) in the water. You can put layers inside to defeat the flushing, but you may find they increase the "clammy" feeling.

[pikabike]

When wearing wetsuits, do you soak them before you get in the kayak, or do you try to stay as dry as possible for as long as you can? I have a brother-in-law that goes diving a lot. he fills his wetsuit with a thermos of hot water before going in.

I just try to stay dry. If the water is so cold that I can't tolerate any water intrusion at all, I use the drysuit. Otherwise, a little bit of water getting in from the neck only chills for a few moments and then gets warmed up while trapped inside. But I don't bother with pouring hot water in to preheat the suit; it's not necessary for the temps that I use a wetsuit. Also, in diving you're in the water the whole time, unlike with paddling.

Now, I have done the opposite: deliberately opened up the zipper to let cool water in on an extremely hot day. Even on hot days I usually wear a shorty wetsuit, so I can do a lot of rolls. When it's really, really hot the cooling effect of rolling wears off pretty quickly, so I resort to other tactics to avoid overheating.

Back to the original question...I wouldn't advise using a drytop and drypant combo, based on my experience. You should've seen the ballooned-out pant legs! I could barely walk in those giant bags of water. When I pulled open the ankle gaskets, the water gushed out in a torrent. It was NOT only a few spoonfuls!

[tyson]

When wearing wetsuits, do you soak them before you get in the kayak, or do you try to stay as dry as possible for as long as you can?

I typically start my paddling with a few rolls.

Also, while each needs to reach their own conclusion, it you're not dressed to be reasonably comfortable in the water, you should think hard about how you're dressed. If you're trying to dress light for comfort, then be prepared to be VERY uncomfortable if you end up in the water. That is your trade-off and no pre-paddle prep will change it.

I typically dress for water temp and submerse as needed if the air/sun is too warm. ...but there is often still some amount of trade and balance needed.

Cheers!

Ty

[subaruguru]

Clearly a dry suit is a better choice if you can afford it, but from the point of view of comfort and convenience.

Joe, although I'm not a huge fan of the thin neoprene neck of the Kokatat SuperNova drysuit, the fact that Suz has a sample for sale at 1/2 price ($225) would make a recommendation that you TRY it for a year and then see if your needs for a more bulletproof neck seal materialize. If so, you can always resell the SuperNova for $200+ on eBay and get a $500-1000 completely "dry"-suit.

This is EXACTLY what I did a couple of years ago, finding that beard stubble abraded the neoprene neck easily, and that since I DO enjoy spring/late-fall paddling the purchase of a bullet-proof suit was warranted.

The fact that the Supernova includes a relief zipper and decent fabric booties makes this a no-brainer compared to a comparably priced drytop. I'm surprised nobody bought this sample yet.