Bar Harbor, to Bold Coast and north

[spider]

Myself and a friend from Quebec are setting aside a couple of weeks either next July or Sept. To travel from Bar Harbor area up across the border to St Andrews, Bay of Fundy area.

Right now I'm reading everything we can get our hands on (great trip report from the young lady who did the West Isles... lots of nice info there).

I'm sure we will fine tune our actual launching and take out destinations and will have more questions later.

but for now.... how do things look for resupplying our fresh water up through there?

Ideally we are looking for streams, ponds, water seeps, things like that that might not get mentioned in our reading.

other than that any friendly places where we might get water...any unfriendly places where we shouldn't go looking?

Right now I'm thinking we will carry 3 maybe 4 days worth of fresh water for drinking and use salt water for cooking..any down side to cooking with the salt water?.

Thanks

one last question... I see the Bold Coast section has a five mile hiking trail along a portion of it, any idea where that is located and if there is water along the trail ?

[Lbeale]

Hi Spider,

Peter B. and I did a five day trip a couple of years ago along that area. While paddling, my water container leaked and we had to stop for water. I found the fresh water in that area to be tough going and having a heavy mineral taste. We stopped at one point on Beales Island and couldn't find any worth drinking. We then found a kids camp in that area and asked for water. The workers were very kind and gave us water but the taste was of a strong mineral - almost like drinking lead.

Maybe Peter can give you more detail on the exact location of the kid's camp--I cannot remember. But you are correct to assume fresh water is a factor when paddling in that area.

I don't know if a filter would help with taste or remove some of the metal in the water.

I am planning a trip to circumnavigate PEI during the time of your trip--and now you got me thinking about the fresh water supply in that area. So thanks for your post !!!!

Les

[John Martinsen]

Can't speak to water sources in Maine, but can address cooking with salt water. Not worth it IMO. Messes up the flavor of your food, makes it super salty obviously, so unless you've run out of salt and just want the taste, I'd avoid it. Even cooking with half salt, half fresh, still too salty for me. If you're really concerned about not wasting fresh water, then water used for cooking lets say pasta, can be set aside in a thermos and used to make something like hot cocoa, or a powdered milk with brown sugar and cinnamon/nutmeg hot drink. Better to just ration about 1 gallon per person per day of water (that's on the high end, some people don't drink that much water, you probably know how much water you need better than anyone else) than trying to eat food that is unpalatable. Water is heavy to pack, sucks to run out of, but gets used very quickly, so packing just gets easier and easier. Have spent a lot of time sea kayaking in the Baja, where we carried 7 days worth of water (7x8=56lbs!) the boats would sit heavy for a day or two, but it gets used so quickly its not a big deal. Really made no changes to our cooking routine, other than not wasting a drop of water, and making sure to get a good nap in the shade after quesadillas in the afternoon. Dishes can get washed in the salt water, sand makes a great scouring agent, not great on grease though.

The MSR 10 liter dromedary, best thing going for back country water containers...

Rain water gathered off a tarp is a most refreshing drink. A little piece of p-cord hung from the lower edge of your tarp will channel water directly into your water bottle or pot.

Enjoy, sounds like a great trip...

[jdkilroy]

I think that salt water needs to be used as a percentage of total water when using to cook with. So say you are preparing pasta or some other food that you would normally add salt to anyway, then you could substitute say a third of the total water used with salt water. Adding too much salt to diet could easily result in your needing more water to address your kidney's need to maintain electrolyte balance in the system.

I found Google Earth to be really helpful in locating where fresh water sources exit to the sea. Much of the coast along your planned trip is displayed in pretty high resolution making the location of even smaller creeks possible.

If you haven't bought a water filter yet, I found that a filter with a piston style pump action(such as the Katadyn Pocket) is much more usable than the type with the pump-handle. (I have big hands and repeatedly smacking my knuckles into the filter cylinder got old fast. The piston motion is easier to perform for a prolonged period (as you fill that 10 liter bladder) so don't just look at pump rates when you compare them.

Sounds like a great trip.

Jon

[alec]

As the other posters have said, you will not be able to use any meaningful amounts of seawater for cooking.

I don't have any views on Bold Coast water supplies but you will find PEI people very helpful, plus much of the coast is developed to the extent you will find sources of drinking water within walking distance of the beach. The rivers are tidal and brackish way inland but you may be able to find streams which a fresh for filtering. In the Maritimes I would count on the generosity and good humor of the population. Plus great messels and steamers.

[Paul Sylvester]

Water will not be a problem if you get near the towns and streams south of Machias. At the bottom of the bold coast, Cross Island has an old white house given to Outward Bound, in the Northeast Cove area. There is a well 200' behind it. We filtered it to be safe. Plan the Bold coast for 1 day with the tides..

Resuppy at Lubec or Eastport. There are many shops and businesses that you can ask. There is the Deer Island campgroud....

With 2-3 gals onboard you could easily make the ferry terminal at Blacks Harbor. There are bathrooms with tapwater. Nice enough to take a sink shower ( no I did not)

Plan all moves with the tides in mind.....

[EEL]

Plan all moves with the tides in mind.....

Wise words from a wise paddler.

I too cannot imagine problems stocking with water for up to 5 days in this region nor getting from store/marina to store/marina in five days. Its not like you are in a remote area.

Ed Lawson

[kate]

So glad that the West Isles trip report is proving helpful to you in planning your own trip!

Mark and I have used seawater for cooking only for boil-in-bag meals (like the Indian pre-cooked meals you can buy, or some of the Trader Joe's heat-and-eat meals), where the water doesn't actually mix with the food. Usually when I boil pasta I use just enough (fresh)water to be absorbed by the pasta and to help make the sauce. Nothing gets drained off.

I've paddled between Schoodic and Machias, and the problem there is that the towns are a far piece from the outer points which jut into the ocean. So you have to paddle a long way in just to get more water in town, then a long way out again. I have not come upon any freshwater streams in that area, but then I was usually going island to island, not along the mainland.

Sounds like a wonderful trip you've got planned!

Kate

[Tom Tieman]

There is a very tempting pond on Bois Bubert, but it is private. There is no potable water at Roque Island State park. There is water at the town campground in Jonesport (it's trucked in) and wonderful hot showers and laundry at the marina. There are closer to 30 miles of trails along the bold coast, but I'm not sure if there is anywhere to get water.

[EEL]

and the problem there is that the towns are a far piece from the outer points which jut into the ocean.

Yes. I think the only choices to somewhat avoid that issue are Corea, Cutler and to a lesser degree Jonesport. I'd much rather be on the outer side of Great Wass although a sit down meal at Tall Barneys in Jonesport could draw me in.

Ed Lawson

Who likes to think of these places as the season closes down and the dreaming for the next begins.

[spider]

Thanks, good information all. For the seawater I found a reference of it being the approx equivalent of 5 teaspoons of salt per liter.

For cooking pasta and some veggies some folks are using 1 part sea water 2 parts fresh. (Other than that sea water "soon to be old like bottled water" at gourmet stores also showed up in the search). I think cooking things in a pouch as mentioned and general clean up will be where we save the most water. I am mindful that we may well need more fresh water than usual living in a salter environment for the trip.

As may be surmised I'm thinking we will want to keep the trip as remote as possible, so will look for well water (thanks for the location) and other sources, but if we must go to a town or campground in search of water then will as an alternative choice (no mater how much I might grumble about it)

Looking forward to the trip. I know the sea is wild as soon as you set foot in it, the paradox is the coast is not. So you have a situation where you have towns and cell phone coverage. Not a wilderness trip as such but, wild water and not to be underestimated.

Dromadry bags... I have been using them for years, but grow increasingly wary of them. What is that terrible taste ?

The 1st time my friend poured a drink from one he instantly gave it right back to me, thinking the water from my house was no good. So he bought one of them up in Quebec and realized it was the bag that gave it the lousy taste. Pretty sure you can naturalize the taste but what the hell are we neutralizing?

Bad tasting water straight from the ground or in the dromadry bag leaves you feeling the water is indeed bad... and may well be.

Does any one know of an alternative collapsible bag that may be safer ?

thanks again...

[Suz]

Dromadry bags... I have been using them for years, but grow increasingly wary of them. What is that terrible taste ?

The 1st time my friend poured a drink from one he instantly gave it right back to me, thinking the water from my house was no good. So he bought one of them up in Quebec and realized it was the bag that gave it the lousy taste. Pretty sure you can naturalize the taste but what the hell are we neutralizing?

Bad tasting water straight from the ground or in the dromadry bag leaves you feeling the water is indeed bad... and may well be.

Does any one know of an alternative collapsible bag that may be safer ?

thanks again...

I have not experienced a bad taste or flavor from the MSR Dromedary bags.(I am talking about the black bags - http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/water-treatment-and-hydration/expedition-water-treatment-and-hydration/dromedary-bags/product) Try rinsing them with a baking soda/water rinse and then letting them dry out. Perhaps you have simply put the cap on after rinsing and maybe have some mold growth in them. If mold is the issue, rinse with a mild bleach solution to kill it off and then soak with a baking soda water rinse and then rinse again a few times. THEN try the water from them. Do this now in case you find you do have mold growth in there that can not be removed.

I would also recommend buying one new bag and tasting the water from that to see if it might be your bags versus all Dromedary bags.

Suz

[gyork]

.......a five mile hiking trail along a portion of it, any idea where that is located and if there is water along the trail ?

Bold Coast Trail and Cutler Preserve. The following is excerpted from a 2008 USA Today article:

"Backpackers can stay at three primitive campsites at Fairy Head at the southern end of the Coastal Trail. The sites, each of which accommodates two one-person tents or one larger tent, are available on a first-come, first-served basis; hikers looking to camp overnight are advised to arrive early, especially on summer weekends. No fires are permitted and there is no water at the campsites, so those who stay must carry in their own water and rely on camp stoves."

[Pintail]

<...We stopped at one point on Beales Island and couldn't find any worth drinking...>

Damned inconsiderate of them, isn't it, Leslie, when they name an island after you and then they utterly <fail> to provide you with potable water! Really!

[spider]

There might be some confusion with the "taste" of the MSR Dromedry Bags. I was referring to the "plastic" taste that they seem to have.

Perhaps that is a bit subjective depending on what tastes ok to one person might differ from what might taste ok to another. I followed their link and they do state they are BPA free. So I'll just look around to see if there are other alternatives... other than that I'll use them if I don't come up with other choices (course I do follow the usual cleaning, cept I could try a bit with the baking soda)

Cutler Preserve- Fairy Head

It does sound nice, a good chance I'll go up there before the trip and hike the trails etc. It would give me a chance to see if the trail does access the sea or if the Coastal hiking portion stays up high along the tops of the cliffs. Sounds nice either way.

sunny skies for now, good for some post feasting paddling...!

[jason]

There might be some confusion with the "taste" of the MSR Dromedry Bags. I was referring to the "plastic" taste that they seem to have.

Perhaps that is a bit subjective depending on what tastes ok to one person might differ from what might taste ok to another. I followed their link and they do state they are BPA free. So I'll just look around to see if there are other alternatives... other than that I'll use them if I don't come up with other choices (course I do follow the usual cleaning, cept I could try a bit with the baking soda)

Cutler Preserve- Fairy Head

It does sound nice, a good chance I'll go up there before the trip and hike the trails etc. It would give me a chance to see if the trail does access the sea or if the Coastal hiking portion stays up high along the tops of the cliffs. Sounds nice either way.

sunny skies for now, good for some post feasting paddling...!

I haven't had an issue with my MSR dromedary bags, but I do let them soak with banking soda water the day before I fill them for a trip.

I did a trip from Boothbay to Canada with John Carmody in 2008 and we weren't lacking for water. Each of us had two dromedary bags with us and we weren't lacking for water on the trip. We did stay a cross island (It has a nice outhouse and a very interesting light show accross from it) but we didn't drink the water. If you do use cross island for a water source filtering it looks to be a good idea.

I hope that you have fun on the trip it's a really nice area!

-Jason

[EEL]

Each of us had two dromedary bags with us and we weren't lacking for water on the trip.

Jason:

What size were the bags, time of year of the trip and number of days for the trip.

Just looking for details as part of planning. Thanks.

Ed Lawson

[gyork]

I did a trip from Boothbay to Canada with John Carmody in 2008.......

-Jason

Jason, did I miss the trip report?

[jason]

Jason:

What size were the bags, time of year of the trip and number of days for the trip.

Just looking for details as part of planning. Thanks.

Ed Lawson

Each of us had one lar and one Medium bag with us. I think that they are 6ltr for the large and 4 for the medium. We didn't bring any dehydrated foods for the first few days everything was fresh foods then we moved on to packaged foods.

The trip was 8/23/2008 to 8/30/2008 we had two 1/2 days where we really didn't do much in the way of paddling, the other days we made some decent distance.

I had posted the pictures after the trip, I had hoped to do a Kate style trip report but I never go it done, as I wasn't able to do one from memory plus I don't have Kate's writing skills.

http://www.kates.org/pictures/Jason_and_Gina_Kates/Jason/Kayak/Sea_Cliff/20080823-20080830-Boothbay_To_Canada/

I might be able to join John on another trip this summer. If I do I will look into bringing my phone and posting as I go or at least take notes this time.

-Jason

[EEL]

or at least take notes this time.

Jason:

Thank you for the info.

I take a small notebook such as the small Moleskin and basically keep log as well as record of what works and what doesn't etc.

Seems fun and helpful.

Ed Lawson

[kate]

Jason:

Thank you for the info.

I take a small notebook such as the small Moleskin and basically keep log as well as record of what works and what doesn't etc.

Seems fun and helpful.

Ed Lawson

I just take a few sheets of paper stuffed into the paperback book that I bring along for reading in the evenings. Usually lots of time for writing then, and everything is fresh in the mind. Jason, I'm sure you would write up an interesting report. I remember finding your narrative interesting when you showed Mark and me your photos. And in a report, the photos do most of the talking anyway.

K