Keel Strip Options ??

[chetpk]

I most likely will do something along the lines of a Keel Strip protection for my boat. I've done a glass one once before, but interested in other options. I saw and talked to Ernie about his Velcro Tape (hook side of the velcro tape, not fuzzy side on the bow and stern) on his boat and he has been satisfied so far with that. On another board I saw the suggestion of Hippo Tape. Have others experimented or know about different options and their success or failures?

Thanks, Scott

[Brian Nystrom]

I saw and talked to Ernie about his Velcro Tape (hook side of the velcro tape, not fuzzy side on the bow and stern) on his boat and he has been satisfied so far with that.

I suspect that won't last. One thing that happens with the "Industrial Strength" Velcro hook is that when it gets cold, the adhesive fails and the hook peels off, leaving the adhesive behind.

[Doug]

I had Lincoln Canoe & Kayak in Maine do one for me this past winter. Since they build boats there, Michelle (builder) does quite a nice job on them. The price was a third less the cost others gave me but I feel they may have gone up a bit since doing mine. I was the first after market one I think she had done. I was 90% happy with this completed project but I am very fussy. Wait time may be lengthly now due to mid season repairs. Nice group of folks up there. Worth the drive.

I hope this helps.

Doug

[chetpk]

I suspect that won't last. One thing that happens with the "Industrial Strength" Velcro hook is that when it gets cold, the adhesive fails and the hook peels off, leaving the adhesive behind.

What about something like Hippo Tape which advertises being able to handle cold temps and stick to anything? One question obviously is what happens when you drag a boat over textured surfaces. Will a stick-on product stay stuck on or start to shred and or peel off?

http://www.hippopatch.com/index_002.htm

http://www.hippopatch.com/index_004.htm

[jason]

What about something like Hippo Tape which advertises being able to handle cold temps and stick to anything? One question obviously is what happens when you drag a boat over textured surfaces. Will a stick-on product stay stuck on or start to shred and or peel off?

http://www.hippopatch.com/index_002.htm

http://www.hippopatch.com/index_004.htm

I am a fan of fiberglass or Kevlar. You don't have to worry about it peeling of. I don't think that your going to find a tape that's as strong.

[Pintail]

I wish to lodge a formal complaint on behalf of the animals! "Hippo" tape, "Gorilla" glue -- whatever next? "Jumbo" survival tents? "Pangolin" elbow armour for WW kayakers? Perhaps "Buffalo" guards for soccer players' shins? Ghastly! (In fact, it might be right up there with calling children "kids" -- what on earth is <that> about? Why not kittens, puppies or foals, I wonder, whilst we're at it?)

I am sure this has not gone unnoticed along the bush telegraph...even now, I daresay the animals are mounting their reciprocal publicity campaign! I think I hear the tom-toms! (They are forming their ranks on the Serengeti right now)

Yep, put velcro on the bottom of your boat and someone else try the <other> component: then we can experiment at Chebacco skills session and see if it makes for a viable towing aid -- one boat sticking conveniently to the other! (Never mind that one will perforce need to be inverted!)

[subaruguru]

I suspect that won't last. One thing that happens with the "Industrial Strength" Velcro hook is that when it gets cold, the adhesive fails and the hook peels off, leaving the adhesive behind.

How cold? I've had keel-end 1-2 foot strips mounted for several YEARS, outdoors throughout winters.

The only complaint is that the very small edges can lift slightly due to getting caught, at which time it can either be trimmed back (or round-cornered) with a blade, or just pushed back on with a small drop of super-glue.

I've tried adjacent strips of several tapes, including one with that largest-of-primates claim, but all were poor against abrasion. There's something about both the industrial Velcro's thicker backing, material strength, and perhaps the "lifting" action of the loops that keeps abrasion to a minimum.

Is there a tiny inherent drag from these "hooks"? Perhaps, but so far I prefer this 2 ounce, $5 solution to a 2lb, $200-300 one. Your needs may vary....

I should note that before attaching ANYTHING to a hull I wipe it quickly with lacquer thinner (even alcohol or nail polish remover (acetone) is fine) to improve adhesion.

I've been awaiting the need to peel off these velcro strips and reattach new ones or another material, but so far they've served exceedingly well.

About the only trick is bending it around the keel corners, at which point I simply cut the "puckers" away and the resultant sides join together pretty nicely.

I just ordered a WHITE clone from a supplier on eBay to try on my upcoming Vaag. Let me know if you want some. The BLACK version's available at HD (or on eBay, where you can get JUST the non-fuzzy part and thus twice as much (30') instead of 15' of both parts. But the fuzzy part can be used on inner cockpit areas where a very thin comfy non-foam surface is helpful, like the area that ends up being a hand-hold or shoulder rest en portage.

Brian,

Just realized that I suspect you're correct when trying tape on PLASTIC boats, whose surfaces both are too thermodynamic and greasy for almost all adhesives to stick across a wide temp range.

But on gels, epoxy and maybe all esters the Velcro seems to work splendidly.

[PeterB]

I think that a fiberglass keel strip, then coated with gel coat is the way to go.

I've never put one on myself, but plan to do so some time soon. I'm told that it;s about a two to three hour job.

[Deb Millar]

I have a truck bed spray on on the RomanyLV, which has held up really well although the outfitter who did this for me has gone back to doing FG. I'll be putting a fiberglass keep strip on the AvocetLV.

While a fiberglass strip will cost more, or take some time to apply yourself (perhaps BNystrom has directions on his site), the long-term benefits are more than worth it.

After all, you get what you pay for, in the end.

Deb M

[subaruguru]

While a fiberglass strip will cost more, or take some time to apply yourself (perhaps BNystrom has directions on his site), the long-term benefits are more than worth it.

After all, you get what you pay for, in the end.

Deb M

Hey Deb,

There's no denying that a $300 pro or 3hr DIY FG or K keel strip isn't strong, but to me seems like overkill in that it's adding unnecessary weight (2+ lbs) of relatively fragile (abrasion-sensitive) material to the keel.

It'd be nice if someone came up with a 4-8 oz tough slippery-material product that would protect the hull without making it thicker and unnecessarily heavier.

Maelstrom suggested last week that I consider going clear hull to save two pounds and then add it back with a two-pound keel strip. Sheesh. That way I'd overprotect the keel and risk puncture or perhaps have reduced paddling stiffness in chop from a thinner hull? Hmmm. Intriguing idea, but for now I'll play with the Velcro, which arrived today (unfortunately they shipped BLACK instead of white). So now I have 45' of it. If anyone wants some let me know. I have 20' of the fuzzy part too...also in black. Putting a couple feet at both ends protects the most, but I might cover the middle too if there's a discernible "V" line under the cockpit that might benefit. I'm a sucker for $10-20 DIY solutions, especially if I don't have to breathe those lovely aromatics, eh Peter?

E

[spuglisi]

I have a truck bed spray on on the RomanyLV, which has held up really well although the outfitter who did this for me has gone back to doing FG. I'll be putting a fiberglass keep strip on the AvocetLV.

While a fiberglass strip will cost more, or take some time to apply yourself (perhaps BNystrom has directions on his site), the long-term benefits are more than worth it.

After all, you get what you pay for, in the end.

Deb M

There was an excellent keel strip "how-to" article in sea kayaker a year or two ago. I may still have it. If I can find the issue I'll make some copies if anyone would like one.

[spuglisi]

There was an excellent keel strip "how-to" article in sea kayaker a year or two ago. I may still have it. If I can find the issue I'll make some copies if anyone would like one.

I found the Keel strip how to article online.

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2004/Oct04/KeelStrip01.htm

[subaruguru]

I found the Keel strip how to article online.

Great! Looks like about 4-6 hrs of really messy labor and about +3 lbs added weight.

Years ago I'd do reasonably good bondo jobs for customers on older Subies, but those days are over.

I've a friend who runs a composites guitar factory using uv-cured and heat-activated resins, and he really worries about the still immature information re carcinogenesis after repeated exposure to these volatile chemicals.

If attempting this kind of project you'll want to work slowly to do a good job, but in so doing be especially careful to actually use a respirator if you can't work outdoors, which is probably recommended as a bit of dust isn't a problem for something as crude as a gel-coated keel strip.

But then note that cure-times are very temp-related. Perhaps better to use a bit LESS hardener so you can be patient with working time, and just use a hair-dryer at the end to push the cure, rather than juicing the mix for speed. The end result will be stronger too, as slow cures usually are. For the time being I'll stick with my $20 15min Velcro app.

[tyson]

I found the Keel strip how to article online.

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2004/Oct04/KeelStrip01.htm

Thanks!

I'm thinking that some packing tape would hold the strip down while it cures and provide a smoother finish before gel-coating.

[chetpk]

Thanks!

I'm thinking that some packing tape would hold the strip down while it cures and provide a smoother finish before gel-coating.

When I did do a fiberglass keel strip on my Explorer, I mixed color pigment right into my epoxy, applied it smoothy (Packing Tape I believe will also work) then skipped applying gel coat. Not saying that my approach is better, but it did work well and came out looking fine. It has been on for a number of years and as held up just fine.

[Ben Fuller]

Has anyone tried Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic tape? Better abrasion resistance than metal, teflon. I have used it in thin sheets on the bottom of a rowboat and it wins when it is around rock. You can get 18 yards of 3 inch for about 40 bucks.

[chetpk]

Has anyone tried Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic tape? Better abrasion resistance than metal, teflon. I have used it in thin sheets on the bottom of a rowboat and it wins when it is around rock. You can get 18 yards of 3 inch for about 40 bucks.

Do you have links to this plastic tape?

[billvoss]

[snip]

I've had keel-end 1-2 foot strips mounted for several YEARS, outdoors throughout winters.

[snip]

I should note that before attaching ANYTHING to a hull I wipe it quickly with lacquer thinner (even alcohol or nail polish remover (acetone) is fine) to improve adhesion.

I've been awaiting the need to peel off these velcro strips and reattach new ones or another material, but so far they've served exceedingly well.

About the only trick is bending it around the keel corners, at which point I simply cut the "puckers" away and the resultant sides join together pretty nicely.

[snip]

So wipe the hull with rubbing alcohol, then once the alcohol dries tape the keel with the loop side of HD hook and loop tape, trim the "puckers" and you are done?!?!?!? That definitely appeals to my cheap, lazy, and impatient frugal, efficient, and productive nature.

I had been thinking that I would try the Chesapeake Light Craft rub strip approach this fall.

http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/fitting_out/rubstrips.html

However, the hook tape approach I could implement this evening, and still paddle tomorrow!

-Bill

[billvoss]

tape the keel with the loop side of HD hook and loop tape,

I went back and read the original post, and noticed the original poster specified the HOOK size of the tape, not the "fuzzy" loop side.

-Bill

[pikabike]

Hello,

So far I have only lurked here, since I live far from New England. But I registered so I could reply to the comments about Velcro tape.

In my experience with the industrial-grade Velcro, the glue is not waterproof, at least not in the way that kayaking requires. It might be adequate for withstanding occasional splashes or light rainshowers.

I put some on the floor of a stitch-and-glue kayak that I made so I could experiment with different seat positions for the minicell seat. It didn't take long for the Velcro to detach from the floor after a very few paddling sessions. There was no flooding, just the water that gets in from entering the boat and leaking through sprayskirt. The critical moment came during a roll that failed inexplicably; my feet came off the footpegs and my butt was sliding around. When I emerged from the wet exit, I saw the seat floating several yards away.

Since I had pretty much dialed in the seat position, I merely glued it in place (with Barge cement) rather than experiment further with Velcro tape.

If you want to try the Velcro route and the tape comes off, you might try glueing it with a truly waterproof glue. The only obstacle I see to that is if you end up wanting to remove the tape later. Make sure that you CAN remove the glue residue from your hull's resin without harming it.

(I cleaned the surfaces with rubbing alcohol before applying tape. Can't remember which side went on what but most likely it was fuzzy on the floor and hooky on the seat bottom.)

[subaruguru]

In my experience with the industrial-grade Velcro, the glue is not waterproof, at least not in the way that kayaking requires. It might be adequate for withstanding occasional splashes or light rainshowers.

I put some on the floor of a stitch-and-glue kayak that I made so I could experiment with different seat positions for the minicell seat. It didn't take long for the Velcro to detach from the floor after a very few paddling sessions.

..Hmmm... Certainly runs counter to my experience with gelcoat or clear-hull epoxy and ester surfaces. Again, I've had Velcro 2" keel strips on my Cat5 for THREE years with only very slight end-corner "lift", easily trimmed with a razor.

Its glue is indeed completely waterproof...that's not the issue. The problem is having a clean enough NON-plasticky surface to adhere to.

I've noticed that this stuff, like most adhesives, will NOT adhere to PE, PP, or any other "greasy" plastics, but interestingly will adhere to painted ABS (car bumpers) if the surface is cleaned well enough. As well, its glue is quickly compromised by dirt or contact with an inappropriate application, so you have to use "virgin" stuff.

In your case I think maybe 70% rubbing alcohol may not have been enough, especially if the surface was damp (residual water) from porosity. Typical 91% would be better, as would of course laquer thinner (contains a mix of toluene/acetone/alcohol and NO water).

My only annoyances with the Velcro stem from trimming the "puckers" at sharp radius turns, and the theoretical increase in drag. So one of these days I'm going to try the 3M gray flooring gripper stuff, which should have less drag but maybe even better abrasion resistance?

Just chasing the 15min/$20/4oz solution.

[alec]

Do you have links to this plastic tape?

this might be what he uses.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/3568

i haven't tried this but it sounds like a good idea, without the drag that velcro would give (FWTW). UHMW polythene is the stuff they use in super strong sailboat ropes.

[alec]

Do you have links to this plastic tape?

otherwise i wonder if the filament packing tape might work, tougher and smoother than velcro and you can get it at the corner store.

[Brian Nystrom]

My only annoyances with the Velcro stem from trimming the "puckers" at sharp radius turns, and the theoretical increase in drag.

The other issue you'll have with Velcro is that in cold temps, the adhesive will separate completely from the hook side. I had this happen on several occasions when paddling in the winter. I haven't had any problems with the loop side, but it's woven Nylon which provides much better purchase for the adhesive.

So one of these days I'm going to try the 3M gray flooring gripper stuff, which should have less drag but maybe even better abrasion resistance?

I haven't tried it in that application, but I have used it for other purposes. The adhesive is pretty tenacious and should adhere well on a fiberglass hull, but I can't say whether it holds well to the textured surface at low temps or not. The tape does not conform well to compound curves, but you could try heating it during application to see if that helps. Worst case, cutting darts in it at the bow and stern would probably be fine.

[Brian Nystrom]

this might be what he uses.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/3568

i haven't tried this but it sounds like a good idea, without the drag that velcro would give (FWTW). UHMW polythene is the stuff they use in super strong sailboat ropes.

Did you notice that it says "Use indoors, unless noted"?