holding my breath

[bethany]

Okay, that v. informative cold water paddling article brought to mind a question I have. It was the part about how you can hold your breath so much less time in cold water. . .

I've learned to roll this year, and I found I was pretty calm and patient while upside down in the pool, got it down, by later in the year could roll up every time I was thrown over by Bob Foote in a lake, But those are controlled circumstances and I was wearing a nose plug. I am not confident in my ability to roll up when I wasn't expecting to have gone over. (And sure, I shouldn't be, from lack of experience, etc. etc.) But the thing that is bugging me is that I have this overwhelming fear I have to manage when I find myself Unexpectedly upside down and what it says to me is "you have no idea how much air you have, get the hell out of the boat, NOW" since I didn't get to take a big inhalation in preparation.

So I'm thinking there must be some good exercises I could do in a pool to spend time hanging around underwater and to practice holding my breath and to learn to not hold my nose -- this slow exhale I hear tell of but never want to try for fear of losing too much precious air. Does anyone have any tips/suggestions?

--b

[kate]

This is the sort of thing that comes with practice. Some people seem to have very little difficulty with the mental aspects of being suddenly upside down; others of us battle with that initial panic. The more often the upside-down happens, the more chances there are to learn that it isn't the end of the world. I don't think extending breath-holding capacity is going to do a thing to help. I mean, if you set up for a roll and you know it's coming, it takes - what, 5 seconds? If you don't set up and don't know it's coming, maybe it takes 10 seconds. If you are getting worked in surf you might be under there as long as 30 seconds. I'd like to bet you can hold your breath that long right now. So it's more about what is going on inside the head.

As for water up the nose, my personal experience is that if I'm in the midst of an unexpected roll I don't even notice that factor until I come up and the water is streaming out my nostrils in a lovely display. There's too much else going on at the time. Same is true of the water temp (unless I'm not dressed properly for it) - I don't notice the temp in the excitement of the moment.

The first several times I had to roll unexpectedly, I swam even though I had a good pool roll. Then one time I got flipped in a place where a swim would have been rough. My first instinct was to get outta the boat, but then there was this sort of disgust that kicked in, I really didn't want to bother with all that swimming and emptying of the boat, I wanted to roll. So I did. This seems to be a common experience, people panic and swim a lot at first and then less and less so after that first successful roll.

I would suggest you give yourself some time on the learning curve, just go out and boat and enjoy and practice your rolls and realize that there might be some swims but it's part of the process. As you get more used to finding yourself unceremoniously upside-down, you will be less tense about it and be able to respond more calmly and effectively. At any rate, that's been my strategy - lots of time in the boat, LOTS of roll practice, pushing the envelope in safe venues (in whitewater boating the catchphrase is to practice "harder moves on easier rivers"). Sometimes there's still discombobulation and panic and the occasional swim, but the more I'm upside-down, the less fear I feel and the better are my rolls.

hope this helps

kate

[sings_evil_twin]

while the water is still relatively warm. On every trip, roll before setting out and end with some rolls. Work to rolling during a trip (with a possible bow rescuer nearby). Don't use a nose plug. You won't have one on when you go over unexpectedly. Plus, salt water is no where near as irritating as freshwater. I personally disagree with blowing out air. Doing this indeed shortens your time down under and minimizes the number of attempts if for whatever you need more than one, like trying to roll on the side of the wave right after capsize. Unfortunately (well... it's just fact), you won't be able to stay under as long when the water gets colder. The coldness closes, more like presses, in on your face. But, unless you're hit with the gasp reflex, you're still good for a couple of tries unless you loose it psychologically. You need to work your roll routinely in the ocean NOW and progress as the temperature drops. You will develop much more confidence doing this than you would by confining your roll practice to a nice warm pool. You've done that. Move beyond.

A note about preventing the gasp reflex. Wear a tight 3 mm or thicker hood. Always splash cold water on your face as one of the first things you do when setting out. And, if you don't mind your complexion -- I obviously don't -- get silicone grease and rub it on the expose portions of your face. It closes the pores. Not scientific but I feel that grease really minimizes the cold water sting. I used to to really feel the "sting" when going over in cold water or getting a facefull of a foam pile. Since using the grease, I feel the coldness but don't seem to get hit with that stinging sensation.

You have the roll down. Take care of physical pieces like having the right immersion gear. You need to now deal with the mental aspect -- the fear of the unknown. Practicing in the pool won't cut it. It doesn't matter how long you can hang under your boat, in the nice warm water, in bright lights with a nose plug on.

sing

[ccarlson]

Hi Bethany... a bit off-topic, but do you have your sculling for support down pretty well? I've found that to be a nice "insurance policy" against a blown roll. If you miss the roll, simply scull to the surface and breath in some of that nice air. Then you can continue to scull to the upright position or just brace back up, or, if you'd like, do another roll attempt. I think if you are confident that you have this back-up in place, you'll be less likely to want to bail when suddenly in an inverted position.

Have fun out there!

[donperry]

Swimming at the Y two or three times a week helps me. A lap with a relaxed face down stroke while breathing on alternate cycles gives me a gage for a comfortable lung capacity. A face up lap with regular breathing follows. I could swim miles this way but there is only time for half a dozen laps or so. It helps me to keep in touch with the surface and know when to catch a breath. I wear Aqua Sphere goggles for good visibility and I’m careful not to get a snoot-full of pool water.

When practicing rolling I go for three times on one side then three times on the other, taking one or maybe two breaths in between. If one is missed it’s usually at a point where I can catch a breath before going under again. Quality time spent under the kayak so worthwhile when the unexpected capsize comes along.

[Brian Nystrom]

Inadvertent capsizes can be very disorienting. The few times I've swam in recent years have been due to exactly that, becoming disoriented underwater and panicking instead of working through the problem. Here are a few ideas that may help.

#1 In stead of yelling "Oh Sh**!" as you're going over, try taking a breath instead.

#2 When you know you're going over, you have two choice of how to react. You can either:

A) "Go with it" and set up to roll as you capsize, or

Flop on your back and immediately scull for support.

If you can do it, "B" is preferable. When you hit the water with your back, it stops all momentum and you don't immediately go under. You can scull on the surface in surprisingly rough water without any problems. This prevents the need to roll and gives you time to compose yourself and brace back up.

#3 If you end up face down in the water, that is, the boat doesn't fully capsize due to too much buoyancy in your PFD and clothing, it can be very disorienting. Again, you have options:

A) Scull the boat around to complete the roll. This is probably the best option.

Turn yourself around and roll up on the same side you capsized on. Unfortunately, most of the time when I try this, the boat rolls around and I just end up face down on the opposite side, even more confused than before.

C) Shift the paddle and do a reverse roll (sweep from the stern toward the bow). You'll need to know how to do reverse rolls for this to be a viable option.

D) Go into a chest scull. This is a Greenland technique and I'm not sure how effective it is with a Euro paddle.

On a positive note, one thing I've found is that if you practice rolling regularly - even in a pool - you'll do it instinctively when you need to. You'll find yourself coming up and not even knowing what you did to get there.

[scamlin]

Bethany:

About a year ago, there was an article in Sea Kayaker magazine on increasing breath holding capacity via structured training. I remember the author calling it pyramid training and claiming you could increase holding time by a factor of three or more with several weeks training. If you're interested, I'm happy to dig around and try to find it.

That much said, breath capacity not the most important thing in combat rolling (i.e. unexpetedly for real rather than planned practice).

One quick suggestion: if you've failed to come up once or twice, a quick dog paddle near the surface with one hand is often enough to grab a quick breath.

The mental part is really the key. And practice in conditions the path.

Scott

[Jill]

The article Scott refers to is available on-line at:

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2003/03Oct/breath1.htm

One other thing I've noticed is that most people practice rolling by doing a full roll -- going over set up on one side and coming up on the other. In my experience, because you are already tucked, this makes my roll easier. But... it is rare that you'll capsize like that in real conditions. So, it is important to practice going over differently (backwards, twisted, without both hands on the paddle, etc.) and have to bring yourself into a set up position to roll.

[JohnHuth]

One thing to keep in the back of your mind when paddling is to ask yourself the question "what if I have to roll?" This kind of mental preparation is helpful.

One thing I got surprised with in my first encounter with "real" conditions was the effect of wind. In trying to roll on the downwind side of the kayak, I had a lot of difficulty, but on the upwind side of my (upside down) kayak, it was far easier.

Having some idea of the waves and wind conditions that you're in and how to respond to a capsize in those conditions can be very important for a successful roll-up.

In terms of breath - try rolling with zero setup and even in conditions where you might have to fumble around with the paddle underwater - it'll increase your confidence, which ultimately helps fight the panic reaction.

[Dee Hall]

>Bethany:

>One quick suggestion: if you've failed to come up once or

>twice, a quick dog paddle near the surface with one hand is

>often enough to grab a quick breath.

>

Never had much success myself with getting my mouth above the surface using this outward facing method (perhaps more difficult with a shorter torso?) Instead, I turn my face towards my boat and scull up with my outward hand. You can hold your head up indefinitely this way. The tradeoff to this method is that you may slip a bit out of the seat requiring one hand to reach down to the coaming to pull one's butt back in before rolling up. Still much better than swimming.

Actually, practicing pulling your butt back into the seat while upside down is a good idea. I have seen a lot of combat rolls fail because of slipping out of the seat. Depending your fit in the boat, you may be able to pull yourself back in with your legs alone.

[djlewis]

Practice a lot (in the pool, if that's what you've got) capsizing without setup and then rolling. Toss your paddle in the air and capsize as you catch it in some unpredictable grasp. Stick your paddle upright over your head and capsize (Bob Foote claims that's the ultimate in disorientated capzize). Etc.

Another idea... If (like me) you learned to roll before getting a reliable wet-shoulders sculling brace, start working on the latter, and turn every failure into combat roll practice. I got quite a few un-setup rolls in that way ;-), and by the time I got the sculling brace, felt fairly confident capsizing askew and rolling. Ditto with deep high braces. Or, just push your lean as far as it will go and beyond, and voila, an opportunity for a non-setup roll.

This doesn't address your breath-holding question directly, but will give you the confidence to roll reliably from an unexpected capsize as well as you do from a setup, so you'll be a lot less concerned (panicked?) about how much breath you have. Actually, given your exercise with Bob Foote, you may already have this. But practicing it a lot is the key (IMHO) to getting the necessary confidence, not to mention the almost automatic skill to roll.

--David.

[rick stoehrer]

while air is pretty important (hot and otherwise) the thing that is really getting to you is the "oh crap, i am upside down and idonthaveaccesstotheair,thiswaterisreallycold,thisisreallybadgetthehelloutoftheboatandbreathe,breathedamnit" maybe? you really probably have more than enough breath in your lungs to be upside down...it's not like you didn't know on the way over that you were going to be upside down in a second, you probably took a breath, right? so why the difference?

you just need to acclimate to the temp change in the water that you were so comfortable with when it was warm and you were secure in your practice. we're air breathing mammals and we don't inherently have great diving capacity like seals and whales and in our genetic past if your head wasn't on the surface, yeah, that was probably very bad....how long has swimming even been considered recreational? i think the lizard part of our brains are hardwired to thinking that breathing = air = very,very good. and the shock of the cold water hitting your face just drives that primitive part.

so how do you maybe short circuit that knee jerk reaction? time, practice, get underwater. next time you and glenn go out, roll over on your side and then just gradually go from just hanging on his bow to hanging upside down with his bow right there in your hand. extend the length of time you spend underwater....the bow in the hand should be a pretty calming force (you can come up when you want, no need for your brain to start sounding all kinds of alarms..it will but you can extend that) and then after a while, practice the sculling and then rolling parts and spend more time underwater.

i think that it isn't so much the holding the breath thing as the calming your natural reaction thing. i don't think that's anything that's going to get better with practice in a nice warm swimming pool...you don't kayak in a nice warm swimming pool and rarely will you encounter any real fear there, right? there's an edge not to far away, surrounded by people, there's a life guard, the waters about 80 degrees. go practice in a nice cold ocean. you'll get better at it.

my 2cents!

thanks for the link on that other site too - it was pretty great!

[KayakDan]

I rolled on my first attempt,but had no idea how I did it. The problem was,when I bombed a roll,I didn't know what went wrong. I had to start over and learn to roll,but the experience left my confidence a bit shaken. I have no fear of the water,and my sculling is fine,but throwing myself into the water,and not having the confidence that I would roll back up,really spooked me.

After bombing a roll last year,I was determined to bring the boat back up on my own,and turned down an offer of assistance. I climbed into the boat and did a re-enter and roll. I was so busy getting set up and so mad that I had bombed,the time under the boat never bothered me. Since then,I have done many practice rolls,but probably just as many re-enter and roll. The R&R just seems less traumatic,as you choose when to go back under the boat,and you are forced to take the time getting set up,to roll back up. This may be an alternative that helps you as well Bethany.

Thank you Mike Crouse for a quick sculling lesson-a long time ago-it made a big difference-the back of my head is wet every time I get in the boat now:-)

Thank you Christopher for telling me I could do it,when I wasn't very sure.