kfrank2009 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I'm new to the group. I began kayaking 2 years ago with a Pamlico 100 recreational kayak. Anyone familiar? I have used it for lake and river kayaking, but I'm not sure if it is seaworthy. Any suggestions or anyone willing to join me on some mellow trips before the season ends. Krisitin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Though I am up here in NH, I got to thinking that the rec boats are also great for wildlife viewing and also for folliage viewing . Pehaps you have already thought of hooking up with the Local Mass Audubon folks. Seems that they might be offering some paddling trips, checking out the local migrations a bit more casually than some of the folks here who might be out in more rowdy waters. Also perhaps the Essex Greenbelt conservation group mostly out of Ipswich might have some ideas. Either way good luck. Perhaps others have some ideas. It's been a fine Sept... hope the good weather holds for Oct as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylevine Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I'm new to the group. I began kayaking 2 years ago with a Pamlico 100 recreational kayak. Anyone familiar? I have used it for lake and river kayaking, but I'm not sure if it is seaworthy. Any suggestions or anyone willing to join me on some mellow trips before the season ends. Krisitin There are at least two problems with recreation kayaks in the ocean: 1) insufficient or nonexistent flotation and 2) no deck lines. When it fills with water, most of these kayaks will either just float at the surface or even sink entirely. You've lost your floating platform, and it almost impossible for fellow kayakers to rescue you with the boat. Without deck lines there is nothing to grab onto to pull yourself up. You could probably fix this with flotation bags, although when I tried them in the pool they just popped out. However, I've seen very effective flotation on canoes, so suspect it was just my poor fixation of the bags. Another problem with recreation kayaks is energy usage - they seem much harder to paddle long distances in, especially in wind and waves. Many recreation kayaks have no tracking ability. I started with a series of them, some of which I still have for guests when we take short harbor trips near the shore. I used to take a Phoenix (with good fixable flotation, by the way) and a Victory Navigator out into the ocean before I joined NSPN. They were great fun, highly maneuverable and indestructible in surf and rocks, but overall not very safe. Kids like the Phoenix because it is so light (about 30lbs). The Phoenix was also good training for balance control since it is strongly coupled to the paddler's body. On the other hand, the Victory is very comfortable and almost impossible to tip over, so adult beginners like it. I still take a Perception Pirouette (a small river white water kayak) to pools to practice rolling since it is small and an easy roller. However, I don't think there is much use for these boats in the ocean. Friends have told me that the flotation problem with recreation kayaks is being addressed in newer models. They are certainly very popular, probably more popular than sea kayaks because of the lower cost and smaller size. I see a lot of fishing from them, and rarely from sea kayaks. I'm not sure if NSPN has a policy about recreation kayaks - maybe someone else knows the answer. However, I think the bird watching idea is a good one and there are the beautiful salt marshes around the Jones River in Gloucester, the tidal basin behind Plum Island,.....many places where a recreation kayak in salt water is fine. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfrank2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Thanks Bob, I intend to pursue the ocean experience in the spring. I am also a certified open water diver. Kristin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 There are at least two problems with recreation kayaks in the ocean: 1) insufficient or nonexistent flotation and 2) no deck lines. When it fills with water, most of these kayaks will either just float at the surface or even sink entirely. You've lost your floating platform, and it almost impossible for fellow kayakers to rescue you with the boat. Without deck lines there is nothing to grab onto to pull yourself up. You could probably fix this with flotation bags, although when I tried them in the pool they just popped out. However, I've seen very effective flotation on canoes, so suspect it was just my poor fixation of the bags. Another problem with recreation kayaks is energy usage - they seem much harder to paddle long distances in, especially in wind and waves. Many recreation kayaks have no tracking ability. I started with a series of them, some of which I still have for guests when we take short harbor trips near the shore. I used to take a Phoenix (with good fixable flotation, by the way) and a Victory Navigator out into the ocean before I joined NSPN. They were great fun, highly maneuverable and indestructible in surf and rocks, but overall not very safe. Kids like the Phoenix because it is so light (about 30lbs). The Phoenix was also good training for balance control since it is strongly coupled to the paddler's body. On the other hand, the Victory is very comfortable and almost impossible to tip over, so adult beginners like it. I still take a Perception Pirouette (a small river white water kayak) to pools to practice rolling since it is small and an easy roller. However, I don't think there is much use for these boats in the ocean. Friends have told me that the flotation problem with recreation kayaks is being addressed in newer models. They are certainly very popular, probably more popular than sea kayaks because of the lower cost and smaller size. I see a lot of fishing from them, and rarely from sea kayaks. I'm not sure if NSPN has a policy about recreation kayaks - maybe someone else knows the answer. However, I think the bird watching idea is a good one and there are the beautiful salt marshes around the Jones River in Gloucester, the tidal basin behind Plum Island,.....many places where a recreation kayak in salt water is fine. Bob Kristin. Welcome! NSPN has no "policy" about rec. boats; we do have a commitment to kayaking education and sharing kayak knowledge , so Bob's comments are well taken, and fall into that area. Check the calendar for skill sessions and, in a few months, pool sessions, which are a perfect place to mess around with boats , meet new people, see what boats and stuff they have, try their boats, learn stuff, and have fun. Also Check out any level 2 paddles that appear on the calendar or "trips" section of the message board, and , if possible, try to talk to the "initiator" (person who posted the activity ) to see if the trip is right for you and your boat. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Kristin. Welcome!NSPN has no "policy" about rec. boats; we do have a commitment to kayaking education and sharing kayak knowledge , so Bob's comments are well taken, and fall into that area. Check the calendar for skill sessions and, in a few months, pool sessions, which are a perfect place to mess around with boats , meet new people, see what boats and stuff they have, try their boats, learn stuff, and have fun. Also Check out any level 2 paddles that appear on the calendar or "trips" section of the message board, and , if possible, try to talk to the "initiator" (person who posted the activity ) to see if the trip is right for you and your boat.PeterKristin,Welcome to NSPN! I second both Bob and Peter's comments. One quick question and one observation. First the question: Am I right in saying that your boat does not have a rear bulkhead (usually a foam wall between the seat and stern hatch)? I've been seeing that more and more where the stern hatch is just meant for access to the back of the boat rather than a watertight space. As for the observation, a rec boat can be used in a lot of places in the right conditions. That being said, with regard to club trips, one of the more frequent issues you might have would be keeping up with the group. The Pamilco is 10 feet long and 30 inches wide versus an average of perhaps 16 feet by 23 inches for the average boat on an NSPN trip. I would recommend the remaining skills sessions and future pool sessions as well as a way to try things out. Happy paddling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm new to the group. I began kayaking 2 years ago with a Pamlico 100 recreational kayak. Anyone familiar? I have used it for lake and river kayaking, but I'm not sure if it is seaworthy. Any suggestions or anyone willing to join me on some mellow trips before the season ends. Krisitin Welcome, Kristin. Many of us have started with rec boats on fresh water. However, once the appetite for salt water is whetted (wetted too?) and as skills increase the average beginner trades up several kayaks in the first couple of years, eventually ending up with whatever storage space and spousal stress allow! I too initially bought a 10' Pungo very naively because I thought that the longer the cockpit the easier the wet exit. Ha! Within two weeks of paddling I bought a 14' WS Monterey (like a skinnier, skegged Carolina), which my daughter quickly adopted, leaving me again with the "barge". Within another two months experience I learned what I really needed for seakayaking and bought Peter's old Looksha IV HV. A couple of training trips with CRCK and a season of skills sessions with nspn and I was ready for ocean-going trips. Carefull evaluation of kayak options over the following two years led me to my current pair of "ultimate" kayaks, with customized bulkheads and seats. You'll learn all about the process of mating (even if just temporary) yourself to an appropriately great kayak as your skills develop and you see what paddling buddies have done. Some folks develop skills very quickly, preferring to rent or borrow and hopefully buy a "real" 'yak right away, for example taking advantage of some of the end of season ex-rental deals that are around now. If your goal is to get on the ocean late this season or in the spring one excellent option is to take that 3-week $139 multi-lesson deal at CRCK, wherein you have unlimited "free" demo of all their craft over the period. You may find yourself progressing quickly from 10-12'/26-30"w rec through 13-15'/24-26w transitional to full 16-18'/20-23"w seakayak ability fairly soon, and then can know what you might want to buy for ocean use, perhaps skipping one intermediate purchase. I once read that for every two weeks of paddling one can paddle a one inch narrower hull. Although this is a gross generalization, it does indicate that there's little substitute for time paddling as a means toward balancing a seaworthy skinnier kayak, especially in what we call "conditions". There are MANY gurus around here with much more experience and developed skills than I have. You'll probably be able to meet some of them at the upcoming meeting Sunday, too. Have fun! Ern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfrank2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Thanks for all the ideas, info. and inspiration! Kristin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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