shewhorn Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/ This review covers several waterproof cameras. For those of you who like to read the last chapter first the conclusion is that the Canon D10 gets first place and the runner up is the Pentax Optio W60. Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/ This review covers several waterproof cameras. For those of you who like to read the last chapter first the conclusion is that the Canon D10 gets first place and the runner up is the Pentax Optio W60. Cheers, Joe Wonder how the W80 would have stacked up.... Was a great write-up with 16pages to spend some time reading. Thanks for the great find.. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Wonder how the W80 would have stacked up.... Was a great write-up with 16pages to spend some time reading. Thanks for the great find.. -Jason Image quality would be the same or worse than the W60 most likely. To make a real difference in image quality you'd have to go from 10 megapixels to 40 megapixels (a doubling of resolution) but of course that would mean that without using a larger chip, the pixel density would be higher which would mean increased heat which would mean increased noise which would mean the camera would be completely useless on an overcast day. I wish they'd go the OTHER direction. Make me a point and shoot with LESS pixels.... 6 is PLENTY for a point and shoot. Focus on high ISO quality and not a marketing number. THAT would make a REAL difference in image quality. Anyhow, the limiting factor right now on the Pentax is the piece of crap lens they have in it (I own a W60 myself... it's fun in the kayak, but it takes crap photos (something of course is better than nothing... I like using it for video myself). Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Image quality would be the same or worse than the W60 most likely. To make a real difference in image quality you'd have to go from 10 megapixels to 40 megapixels (a doubling of resolution) but of course that would mean that without using a larger chip, the pixel density would be higher which would mean increased heat which would mean increased noise which would mean the camera would be completely useless on an overcast day. I wish they'd go the OTHER direction. Make me a point and shoot with LESS pixels.... 6 is PLENTY for a point and shoot. Focus on high ISO quality and not a marketing number. THAT would make a REAL difference in image quality. Anyhow, the limiting factor right now on the Pentax is the piece of crap lens they have in it (I own a W60 myself... it's fun in the kayak, but it takes crap photos (something of course is better than nothing... I like using it for video myself). Cheers, Joe I agree the 10 vs 12 isn't the selling feature in the upgrade the change that looks good is the image stabilization. But then again it will be the 1st shot at. I have a abused W30 with a broken screen that I am thinking of replacing. Thus I don't know about the W80 or getting a W60 when the price drops. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingsn Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/ This review covers several waterproof cameras. For those of you who like to read the last chapter first the conclusion is that the Canon D10 gets first place and the runner up is the Pentax Optio W60. Cheers, Joe Here is another good site for reviews http://www.steves-digicams.com/ . I did a lot of research before purchasing a W60 back in March. It was between the W60 & The Olympus 1030 (?) A few of the deciding factors for me were the zoom (5x vs 3X), the Pentax was slightly smaller and picture quality was better. The http://www.steves-digicams.com/ site found that the Pentax was much better than the Olympus in the picture quality. I did find it interesting when reading review that some people would be very negative about a particular camera, yet most people liked it. After purchasing the Pentax I found a picture, taken w/ the W60, in Outside magazine which was blown up to cover 2 pages. It looked great to me. I have to say that I have seen pictures from the both the Olympus & Pentax and the all look good to me. Now if you want perfect pictures you'll have to pay the big bucks and carry a bulky camera IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Anyhow, the limiting factor right now on the Pentax is the piece of crap lens they have in it (I own a W60 myself... it's fun in the kayak, but it takes crap photos (something of course is better than nothing... I like using it for video myself). Is there a pocket camera that you do like? ....or do you require a large format camera to consider it other than crap? I own a W60 (and W20 before that) and am amazed at the pictures I get from it. Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have the Pentax OptioW60, which I got for Christmas on the recommendation of a friend who has one. No complaints here at all. Bob has a Canon Powershot that isn't waterproof. However, we bought the big, bulky case for it which makes it a pain to deal with but the pictures are great. It's been going strong for 5 years and taken some abuse and it just keeps on clicking. I'd be interested in seeing the reviews for the W80 and for the Panasonic LUMIX waterproof, which is still quite expensive ($350 is the cheapest price I've seen on the 'net). We've had a LUMIX Digital SLR for 5 years and the picture quality is fantastic. As a means of protecting the W60 when it's stored in my PFD with all the other "stuff", I have in there, I have a silicon cover around it. This doesn't interfere with using it at all. The silicon case is camera-specific and I got mine at Amazon. Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 ..... I wish they'd go the OTHER direction. Make me a point and shoot with LESS pixels.... 6 is PLENTY for a point and shoot. Focus on high ISO quality and not a marketing number. ..... Cheers, Joe Techno geek speaking here, but you're not going to get high ISO quality without: A) a camera with bigger pixels. not gonna happen in a P&S. _ using "less pixels" (binning in CCD talk) by summing up the signal on several pixels and treating them as one super pixel. Implementing that in camera software is a challenge with your average color Bayer masked camera chip; plus you lose spatial resolution/ fine details. C) perfect noise reduction software. But when the number of electrons a pixel can hold keeps getting smaller due to the size issue (see A), the difference between signal and noise can be small. So real signal gets smudged out as noise. Geek hat off; I am actually quite impressed by what the cheap P&S cameras can do. In the review you site, I think the Canon won mostly because of the quality implementation of its anti-shake technology. Phil (and yes, I worry about some of this for a living) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Just so I don't have to read all the specs, can any take a filter, say for polarizing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Just so I don't have to read all the specs, can any take a filter, say for polarizing? None that were reviewed are designed to take a filter. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Is there a pocket camera that you do like? ....or do you require a large format camera to consider it other than crap? I own a W60 (and W20 before that) and am amazed at the pictures I get from it. Ty Nothing that I'd say has good image quality but I need to bias that by saying I'm a professional photographer so I have different standards and criteria (for example... what a lens will do when you're in a high contrast backlit situation). My own little collection of point and shoots includes the Fuji F10, Pentax Optio W60, and Canon G9 (which I have a waterproof case for). The Canon has the better optical quality by far. The Fuji (even though it's maybe 3 years old) still has a really respectable sensor. I'm not sure how their current lineup does. I'm tempted to go for an Olympus Pen EP-1 with a 17mm pancake lens (which would be roughly equivalent to a 35mm prime on a full frame sensor) though... one might be taking a bit of a liberty calling it pocketable. Anyhow, the EP-1 has a 2.0 FOV crop which means the sensor is significantly larger than your typical point and shoot and the noise performance due to the larger pixels means better signal to noise at high ISOs (your images won't be as grainy (or blurry if the manufacturer applies a lot of in camera noise reduction)). All things considered from the sample images I've seen so far, given this camera's size the ISO 6400 samples are quite respectable. Other than that I don't really follow the consumer stuff so I'm afraid I can't be of much help but the website I've been posting links to is primarily dedicated to reviewing consumer gear and they do a fairly thorough job of providing you with enough info to make a good purchasing decision. I took a quick look through and it looks like the Canon SD-880 IS got a pretty decent review when put up against several other premium point and shoot cameras. Canon has since released a few higher resolution versions of that camera but higher resolution typically doesn't equate to better image quality (it's mostly driven by the marketing folks). Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Just so I don't have to read all the specs, can any take a filter, say for polarizing? There's a reason for it... digital has kind of been the end for the filter for two reasons... 1) It can usually be accomplished with a filter in Photoshop. There are of course exceptions such as a polarizing filter... a filter in Photoshop can't prevent light from certain angles getting to the sensor before the shot is taken (how cool would that be though, a filter that could not only manipulate photons, but go back in time to do so as well... I'm patenting it!!!) but... if you want that saturated blue sky, that's easy to do. 2) When you have two parallel, extremely flat reflective surfaces (the sensor and the filter) aligned with one another it tends to create problems with glare which manifests itself as haziness and reduced contrast in the final image. Come to think of it I can't think of a single one of my colleagues that uses filters anymore. Even a super expensive (I have a few that are over $125 bucks a pop) coated B+W UV filter will cause problems. When we switched to digital the filters pretty much got tossed in the bin. The Canon G10 does have provisions for a filter mount. It is pocketable if you have big pockets and there is a relatively cheap waterproof housing for it BUT... you can't use the filters with the WP housing. Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/ This review covers several waterproof cameras. For those of you who like to read the last chapter first the conclusion is that the Canon D10 gets first place and the runner up is the Pentax Optio W60. None of them has an optical viewfinder, which makes them all worthless, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 None of them has an optical viewfinder, which makes them all worthless, IMO. What am I offered for this nearly new Pentax Optio 43WR, the last waterproof compact camera made with an optical viewfinder. Well, it'd probably have to be a lot, but try me. --David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingsn Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 What am I offered for this nearly new Pentax Optio 43WR, the last waterproof compact camera made with an optical viewfinder. Well, it'd probably have to be a lot, but try me. --David. I have the silicon skin for my W60 as well. I also keep mine in the VHF pocket of my Kokatat Misfit which means that is @ the very front of the PFD. So it takes a beating during rescues & training in general, no problem. And yes, the lack of a view finder is huge, but I don't know of any that do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 What am I offered for this nearly new Pentax Optio 43WR, the last waterproof compact camera made with an optical viewfinder. Well, it'd probably have to be a lot, but try me. --David. Hey David, are you talking about the one you bought from ME last year?! Save some of the profit for lunch at Fuloon.... Ern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hey David, are you talking about the one you bought from ME last year?! Save some of the profit for lunch at Fuloon.... Ern Nope... lost that one on the Westport when the rubber stopper on the tether decided to slip through its hole. ;-((( Got another one since. Thought you were in Ireland. Well, I guess they have internet there too. --David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancysan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q209waterproofgroup/ This review covers several waterproof cameras. For those of you who like to read the last chapter first the conclusion is that the Canon D10 gets first place and the runner up is the Pentax Optio W60. Cheers, Joe I've been talked in to trading my Canon G10 waterproof housing (unused) for a Panasonic LUMIX DMC-TS1, which the sales person at Hunt's says is an excellent choice. Since it will cost me a few additional clams, please speak up now if anyone has any negative personal experience with this one. The fact that it is truly portable is huge for me. It is only waterproof to 10 ft., but that should meet my needs. It is the all-around "rugged" choice at Hunt's and boasts a Leica lens, plus superior video quality compared with some of its predecesors. Looking forward to trying it. Nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I've been talked in to trading my Canon G10 waterproof housing (unused) for a Panasonic LUMIX DMC-TS1, which the sales person at Hunt's says is an excellent choice. Since it will cost me a few additional clams, please speak up now if anyone has any negative personal experience with this one. The fact that it is truly portable is huge for me. It is only waterproof to 10 ft., but that should meet my needs. It is the all-around "rugged" choice at Hunt's and boasts a Leica lens, plus superior video quality compared with some of its predecesors. Looking forward to trying it. Nancy Nancy- check the warranty info and the discussion/reviews on amazon. IIRC, the waterproofness warranty is only good for a year and otherwise requires yearly replacement of the gaskets at the factory for a cost of about 1/2 the original purchase price (~150$). Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm hearing a lot of disparaging comments about the point-n-shoot water proofs. Below is a picture taken recently with an Optio W60. IMHO, the quality of the picture is quite good; despite needing to be rotated because the camera wasn't level and cropped because of water on the lens shield and the subject (Hi Deb!) being only a small portion of the picture. Only a small point-n-shoot water proof would have ever gotten that picture because a larger camera would not have been tethered to my chest while playing in the Ipswich Bay surf. This is not the best picture that this camera can get. This is what is left after rotating and cropping a picture taken in difficult conditions. I have a camera to record my fun while kayaking. I don't kayak to take pictures. Cropped and rotated: Original before cropping and rotating: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgriz Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 If your number one priority is to take great photos, then a high-end digital SLR with expensive glass (and a good photographer behind the viewfinder!!) is the way to go. Capture the image in RAW format, and process it to extract the maximum amount of detail. But... you're probably lugging a lot of heavy and expensive equipment, and you're keeping it as far away from water as you can. On the other hand, most point-and-shoot cameras give superb pictures in sun-lit situations, with more resolution than most of us will ever need (anything above 6 MB is usually wasted), and the priority is for ease of use and low expense. For on-the-water use, I find a viewable viewfinder is wasted, as long as my LCD screen is bright enough for viewing in the sun. I have been fooling around with a Canon D10 for the past month or so, and its water-proof casing allows me to keep the camera in a PFD pocket (the camera's a bit bulky, but it fits into the mesh pocket), and therefore it's always available while I'm paddling. A few pics are on the site here: Picasa album "water shots". Although the camera is supposedly rated for 33 ft. depth, the deepest I've taken it is about two feet (me under water, rolling). The seals on the camera appear to be somewhat delicate, so I am reluctant to test it at the full depth (and if I'm still in the kayak at that depth, I've bigger problems than the camera). However, I've been hit in the chest by a few curlers, and the camera worked fine after those, so maybe I'm just being a trifle paranoid. The next step is to get a "sticky pod" type of mount, so that I can stick it onto the deck and take paddling movies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancysan Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thanks, everyone, for your input. I did the trade from the G10 housing to the Lumix TS1 and I'll let you know how I like it. I am definitely looking for ease of use on the water, and posting on the web more than professional enlarged printing, so I think it will meet my needs. I was told any camera with waterproof gaskets will need the gaskets replaced after a year or two of use, depending on how much you use it in cold/hot/extreme conditions. Since this camera captures HD video clips, it is a little perk that should be fun to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.