Cold Hands....

[Shane]

Hi all,

Cold feet would have had a better ring to it, eh?

Okay, so I learned in yesterday's session that my hands get cold QUICK. After paddling a bit and my core temperature rises, they do get better, but it really was absolutely miserable for me in the interim. A personal note here too, I am a big cold wimp.

Another lesson: I was goofing with a low scull around in the cove after coming back in and I botched coming back up. I believe Jim B witnessed my pathetic and unsuccessful CtoC rolls. I finally remembered to get back up using the extended paddle roll. Other than being cold, rusty, and not keeping my head on my shoulder, I DEFINITELY noticed the non-coordination of my handgrip on the paddle. I am going to partially attribute this to my hands being icicles.

So I need to address this. As a solution, I was thinking about things I could do to keep my hands dry and shielded - objective being dry and shielded and thereby being less reliant on my core temperature to warm-up moist gloves.

I was thinking of a big latex glove that you could layer regular gloves underneath and then tuck the ends under the drysuit's wrist gaskets. I would think that latex on latex would make for an outstanding seal.

Something like this maybe from NRS:

http://www.nrscatalog.com/product.asp?pfid=2278

Does anyone else have miserably cold hands and/or explored options such as this? Recommendations?

Much thanks in advance!

_Shane

"Would a knife help protect you against a ‘curious’ shark? I don’t know but I would like the option." - Trevor Gardner

[Guest guest]

Nordic Blue (dry gloves), model 302.

http://www.nordic-blue.com/butik/index.asp?sp=e

My hands stay pretty toasty all winter. Cut out the sewn in acrylic liner and replace with thermax liner gloves.

sing

[Shane]

Mark on - you'd highly recommend these?

_Shane

"Would a knife help protect you against a ‘curious’ shark? I don’t know but I would like the option." - Trevor Gardner

[Guest guest]

the nordic plues are not bad. get them wihtout linings use liners that fit, and can be changed.

As for me I'll find atlas gloves and wrist gaskets and make my own. I find the nordic blues are two long for ease. Nordic blues uses atlas gloves.

[Linda]

I too highly reccommend the Nordic Blues or a home-made equivalent dry glove. I got some heavy blue chore gloves (identical to what they use for the Nordic Blues) and had Brian attach wrist seals for me. I found that the Nordic Blue small was still too large for me, but these fit great. I use a very thin liner and have never had a problem with cold hands while using them...And I ALWAYS have cold hands!

Linda

[kattenbo]

Just so folks who've heard this before won't be disappointed...

I've found that a pair of less-than-$10 (two years ago) neoprene gloves from the WalMart huntin' and fishin' counter to be the warmest things I've worn on the water. I've never tried dry gloves, but in terms of others I've done the NRS, etc. thing and these still are the best. They last a couple of seasons.

Keith

[djlewis]

Ok, sounds like Nordic Blue or the equivalent is the way to go.

Can folks who have them help with sizing, perhaps by measuring their own hands. I used the chart below from the Nordic Blue web site and fell right between small and medium.

Do they run small or large? Should I leave a bit of room for a more substantial liner? Or does Linda's experience suggest going toward the smaller ones. Are the fingers shorter or longer? I frequently find gloves that fit my hand have fingers that are too long, though the Stearnes neoprene mediums are perfect.

Thanks. --David.

http://www.nordic-blue.com/bilder/Storlekstabbel.jpg

[Guest guest]

Get removable liners; the things Nordic blue sells are too puffy; no feeling through them.

If between sizes I recommend ordering down since you will be using a thinner liner, but who am I anyway?

I ordered gloves from redden :

http://www.reddeninc.com/atlasgloves.htm

I got the atlas 660s Then I will apply gaskets about one inch further towards the fingers than the nordic blues.

[Guest guest]

Shane,

The first thing I would do is make sure the wrist seal is not too tight. A tight seal reduces or cuts off needed blood circulation. They should be unnoticeable when properly cut. Then all of the glove selections will work fine. I also like the Wal-Mart gloves.

Jim

B

Thought for the day: Never be afraid to try something

new. Remember that amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the

Titanic

P & H Orion

Yellow over White

jim@nspn.org

[Shane]

I am in the same exact situation as Dave. If you fall right on the border, whats the recommendation? Any opinions on erring up or erring down?

_Shane

"Would a knife help protect you against a ‘curious’ shark? I don’t know but I would like the option." - Trevor Gardner

[Guest guest]

I have "average" small hands. The small size works fine with me. I have a little more room for a thicker liner than my thermax. But I prefer to grip better. When I purge the air, the gloves conform pretty snuggly with my hands. It's a little bit colder this way. If the hands start to get cold, I let back in a little air for more insulation.

sing

[Suz]

Where do you buy the wrist gaskets?

[Guest guest]

Linda,

Where did you buy these chore gloves? As you know, my hands are very small too. Unless they are "womens" sizes, the smallest size is almost always too large.

Dee Hall

Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory

[Brian Nystrom]

Atlas Gloves can be found as some commercial fishing suppliers for ~$20, but I haven't been able to find them in extra large with liners. The sizing is different with and without the liners, so if you have large hands, you'll have to buy them with liners whether you want the liners or not. BTW, they are available with liners that are not sewn in.

By the time you buy wrist seals and glue and such, the price is pretty close to the price of Nordic Blues. The difference is the quality of assembly and the warranty. I've only had one problem with a Nordic blue glove. A seal ripped when I was putting them on. After emailing the company about getting a new seal, I received a phone call from Sweden inquiring about the details of the failure. They sent me a new pair of gloves at no charge and didn't even ask for the old ones back. Great service!

[Brian Nystrom]

The sizing runs pretty true. However, if you get them too small, the tight fit will restrict blood flow and the result is cold hands. If you're on the border, I suggest going with the next larger size. My hands are size 10 or so, and I really wish I had gotten XL's instead of L's. The larger shell also gives you more options in liners.

The wrist seals will likely need to be trimmed to fit.

If you change the liners, you'll want ones with short cuffs. Long cuffs get stuck under the seals when you're putting the gloves one, causing spontaneous bouts of whining. ;-)

[Brian Nystrom]

"I was thinking of a big latex glove that you could layer regular gloves underneath and then tuck the ends under the drysuit's wrist gaskets. I would think that latex on latex would make for an outstanding seal."

I wouldn't recommend that you ever put anything under the wrist seals, for a couple of reasons:

- You compromise the seal. All it takes is a wrinkle or fold in the glove.

- You make the seals tigher, incresing the likelihood that they will cut off your circulation.

I tried latex socks under the ankle seals on my dry suit. They leaked like a sieve.

[djlewis]

>If you're on the border, I suggest going with

>the next larger size.

I really dislike gloves where the fingers are too long, and just flop around, get in the way, and make even medium-grain finger tasks difficult or impossible. Also, I assume that dry gloves are a bit of a chore to doff and don, so I don't want to be too disabled.

Is this a significant concern, or are most or all kayaking tasks perfectly viable with too-long glove fingers?

My Stearns neoprenes fit the fingers perfectly, and are therefore delightful to use. But they won't make it into hard-core cold weather.

Thanks. --David.

[Shane]

Thanks Brian!

_Shane

"Would a knife help protect you against a ‘curious’ shark? I don’t know but I would like the option." - Trevor Gardner

[Guest guest]

REI They cost $11/each plus tax no shipping if it goes to the store for you to pick up.

[Brian Nystrom]

There's really no way to guage the fit other than to try them on. The issue I have with them is not one of the length of the fingers, but rather the girth. And it's not like I have chubby fingers. Dry gloves, like general winter gloves, are warmest if they have a bit of extra space in them. This is the opposite of neoprene, which works best if it fits closely enough to minimize water intrusion and exchange.

I don't find the fit of gloves to be all that critcal for paddling, since holding a paddle doesn't require a great deal of dexterity. I do understand your concerns about them being to big to perform tasks requiring a more deft touch. It seems to me that you lose more dexterity from cold hands than from bulky gloves.

[Brian Nystrom]

The 660's are the same basic shell, but the sizing is different. I've checked them out at the Ship's Store in Sandwich and they are MUCH smaller for a given size that the versions with the liners. People with relatively small hands could use them, but I could not wear a liner in the size XL.

Speaking of liners, why do you assume that people will wear thinner ones? I do on occasion, but when it's cold, I wear wool liners that are just as thick as the stock ones. They're a lot warmer.

BTW, the 640 style (orange) shell is the same basic glove, but it's double dipped instead of triple dipped like the 660. I'd love to find the lined version of them to try. While there may be a loss in durability, there may also be a significant gain in dexterity.

[Brian Nystrom]

The gloves that you want are on the same page. They're the 490's (blue, with liners). The one's I was speaking of are the 460's (orange, with liners). The sizing on these should run the same as Nordic Blues. When you decide to order let me know and I'll order a pair of each with you.

[Brian Nystrom]

I've been buying latex seals and booties from OS Systems (www.ossystems.com). They a bit more expensive than some others, but the quality is excellent and you can order them in several sizes to suit your personal dimensions.

Go to the Maintenance and Repairs section and select Repair/Parts Price List. Scroll past the installed prices to the parts lower down. I bought one of their big cans of glue, so if anyone needs any let me know. A little goes a long way.

[Guest guest]

I called Redden yesterday and ordered. their prices and shipping are killer cheap. I spoke to Ken. He said that the 660S I ordered are the shells of the 490s, exactly. He seemed to know what he is doing; he's an old alaska winter commercial crab fisherman, and reddens resident expert on the gloves! I ordered the xl's and L's soon we will know. the atlas 495s are the 490 with removable liners but I do not like the liners so if the 660s are the same sized we will soon know. At under $4.00 they are dirt cheap. I'll keep you in the loop. I've got a pair of nordic blue xl's you can have for really!! cheap or we can swap for a pair of larges and I'll give you some jack. I'll give away the pair of the new gloves I do not want. You are first in line!

What is it about the glue, do we not use aquaseal to do this?

I'll be calling you soon, so don't answer the phone! >;-)

[Don]

For those wanting something simple and cheap, another option is latex dry gloves available from Annapolis Performance Sailing.

http://www.apsltd.com/Depts/dept204.asp - go to almost the end of the page.

These are $14 for a pair, and are a black latex glove with integral wrist seal.

Don't remember for sure whether the Large or xtra large fit me better - I haven't messed with them since this spring.

They also have some neoprene gloves listed right below the latex ones, but I'm guessing the seal isn't as dry.

I also have the Nordic Blue gloves. During the 2-day NHAMC paddlers' whitewater class this last April, which was held during a snowstorm, I tried them both. The first day I used the latex gloves, and was pretty happy with them. The next day I used the Nordic Blues. The Blues grip better when wet, but the latex gloves are lighter and give a better feel. I used a medium weight liner for both. For whitewater paddling, I think I'd trust the Blues better because they're more rugged. For touring, the latex gloves would probably be fine.

In either case, the gloves are a little long, so those planning to get gloves and attach wrist seals will probably have the best fit.

As for how to place the seals - I had previously tried using the latex gloves by pulling the glove seal over the suit's seal. It looked like it should work, but when I immersed my hand, I got wet.

Seems like the best seal is to butt the ends of the seals against each other, with both seals against skin. Not quite as warm, but dry.

Don