Suz Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 With all the new dry suits out there, it is probably a good idea to talk a bit about the care and feeding of the new babies.I was complaining to Brian about struggling to rinse off my dry suit standing outside of the shower getting wet when he explained that he just wears his in the shower to rinse it off. OK sometimes the obvious isn't quite so obvious to me... So the next time I used it, I put it on and jumped in the shower. Which was kind of fun but REALLY cold getting into the suit naked... next time I will wear my long underwear (that is the whole obvious issue again)! This allows you to really rinse the latex seals and everything else really well-this was done without soap. Then when you get out, still dressed, you can dry it off pretty well with a towel so that you don't have puddles in the bathroom that your spouse may not like and you won't be banned from using the bathroom as a drying room Ravenspring has a note in their literature that if you need to WASH the suit, use only pure soap flakes and HAND WASH. In the UK, you can easily find PURE soap flakes, without detergent, enzymes and brighteners. Anyone know of any in this country? Ivory Snow is NOT pure soap flakes, it is a mild detergent based cleaner. Dreft is a "baby" detergent and contains bleach - which shouldn't be used. They also say that you can TUMBLE DRY your suit at LOW heat. So if you know your dryer isn't too hot, that would be a good option to possibly revive the finish on the dry suit. Any other suggestions?Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Since I already have my dry suit off by the time I get home (and don't relish getting back into it) I have twice now just let it soak in cold water in the tub and rinse thoroughly inside and out..... I found I could put it in a gentle spin cycle in my washer to wring the water out ( as I do with my other gear if its dark or too cold or rainy to let drip dry outside). I made sure I turned the cuffs and latex booties inside out to get rid of excess water and then hung in the basement on a plastic hanger to dry. I use a dehumidifier in the rainy or colder weather and my stuff is dry in hours..... really good cheap investment to keep our stuff dry and not moldy. In the summer I just rinse everything with a hose and drip dry outside.... Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Suzanne, While I applaud you for wanting to treat your new suit with deference, do not be under any misconception about its ruggedness or durability.When speaking with Kokotat regarding a repair or alteration (I you do not have a Kokotat suit, my love!) you will be INSTRUCTED to wash your suit before despatching it to the factory! Mild soap, machine-wash -- just like your fleece or whatever. And hanging over the bathtub should be adequate: no need for a dryer at all -- this goretex stuff (or approximate-goretex?) dries quickly and easily.Take comfort, ye who read! The goretex bumpf (paper -- ie the labels, my dears) even tells you that their fabric is not affected by salt (in theory). OK, so we'll continue to rinse ours off, won't we?Signed: smartypants, you-know-who! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 As a drysuit rookie, I got a piece of advice as to storage of the suit that I would like to share.The gas released from pilot lights (water heater, dryers++, etc...) will expedite the deterioration of the suit materials. Cool and dry is the best; a garage may be ideal.I always reserve the right to be wrong, but it made sense to me!_Shane"Would a knife help protect you against a ‘curious’ shark? I don’t know but I would like the option." - Trevor Gardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 > Mild soap, machine-wash -- just like your fleece >or whatever. Dear smartypants.Far be it from me to tell you that you're wrong, but...I've just been talking to Ravenspring, as my suit has started to delaminate. They were helpful and apologetic but, and I quote, they "..assume that the suit has not been through the washing machine or been cleaned with detergents, or been exposed to any strong contaminents?".Regards,Dr. A.P. BinksThe Einstein Institute for Fabric Research and Care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Not being one who gives his gear a great deal of care, my Kokatat GTX drysuit is going on 6 yrs. I rarely ever rinsed it after paddles. I wash it a couple of times a year using the non detergent "Tech wash" products along with my other GTX outerwear. After washing, I've retreated the suit using Nickwax products. Having latex seals you should not machine dry. I'll be picking up my suit from a Kokatat recommended professional repair facility (Rainy Pass Inc.)here in Seattle next week. I had all the seals and booties replaced, the seams retaped as needed, pressure tested for leaks, and cleaned and retreated. All for $150.We'll see if a professional does any better than I do at cleaning and retreating. I'll let you know how it turns out.Good Luck, B(former member of NSPN/Team Kokatat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard N Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 "Use the tub, shower or a large capacity machine to wash drysuits. Since the fabric is waterproof and pockets of soapy water can get trapped, stop the machine during the rinse cycle to rearrange the suit, or use a hose or hand held shower to rinse it well inside and out after the wash. Remember, avoid dryers if the garment has gaskets!"The link below contains information from the mouth of the Horse!!!!Click on "Service"Then Click on "Care and Feeding"Download PDF "Drysuit & Drytop Storage/Care Instructions (417 kb)"Note the cleaning and lubricating instructions for zippers.The above cleaning information is for Gore-Tex only!I've been using Gore-Tex garments for over 20 years.I have used washers, dryers, etc.None of my Gore-Tex garments have ever delaminated.In fact, Gore guarantees against delamination!Unfortunately, some of my NON-Gore-Tex garments have delaminated.Richard Living to learn.Romany White, Blue trim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Dear Dr. Binks,The word is "contaminant", Sir! (Your spelling "contaminent" -- poof!)Well, it would seem that Mr. Kok O'Tat and Ms. Raven Spring are unlikely to marry, wouldn't it? Such disparity of philosophy is hardly going to be conducive to a happy union, I think...? Such a shame. I only quoted just what I was told by the charming employee at Kokkie's place.Regards, as ever,Your humble servant, Sir, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 As the Kleenex and Band-Aid trademarks have become synonymous with facial tissues and strip bandages, the Gore-Tex name is commonly used for all waterproof breathable fabrics. The Ravenspring suits are not made of Gore-Tex. Each manufacturer of WPB fabrics has their own process and materials. I would not apply the care instructions from one manufacturer's garmets to another manufacturer's garmets.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 >Dear Dr. Binks, >>The word is "contaminant", Sir! (Your spelling >"contaminent" -- poof!) Forgive me, Sir. I quoted verbatim - the folly of copy/paste.I now regret suggesting, for one minute, you were incorrect in your usual sterling advice. Tumble-dry away that man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherG Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Ah, yes, Dee: you are right, as ever. Note that I initially wrote Goretex (or approximate-Goretex) (I think those were my words?) for exactly that reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 I believe what you're referring to is ozone, which will definitely deteriorate rubber. However, if you're furnace is properly adjusted, there should be little or no ozone generated by the flame and what there is should go up the flue. Electric motors do generate ozone, so keep your paddling garments away from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 I also worry a bit about simple heat when storing a dry or wet suit near a furnace -- or just about any gear with neoprene and/or rubber. Our furnace seems to radiate heat into the basement at a mild but noticable rate. It felt like the gear was getting a bigger does of heat than the chilly air temp of the basement would suggest.I know furnaces aren't supposed to do that -- it just heats the basement when you are paying to heat the living space of the house -- but there seems to be some effect. So I moved the rack with kayak gear to a far corner of the basement, a good 15 feet from the furnace, from a spot more like 6-8 feet away.Am I overly concerned?--David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 include:- oil pump in oil furnace- spinning motor in clothes washer- spinning motor in clothes dryer- every power tool that I can think of that isn't powered by compressed air- compressorDee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Smoky Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Not all electric motors are created equal. I believe only motors with commutators and brushes can generate ozone. Vacuum cleaners and power hand tools come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 I just bought a little electric space heater to run in the bathroom to help dry things overnight. I used it on Sunday night and everything was delightfully dry and NON MOLDY smelling in the morning. INCLUDING my CHOTAS and that is a really pleasant thing - as dry means they don't smell. I was worried when reading about the ozone issue here but imagine that it would only be an issue if you were STORING your gear in a place with electric motors running continuously - correct? Even so, I think that I may elect to expose the gear to the ozone over not drying out quickly and thoroughly as the mold can make things unusable for me due to mold allergies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 A small space heater probably doesn't generate enough ozone to be a problem. It also depends on the type of motor in it. Small, enclosed fan motors generate a lot less than the large open-brush motors on many power tools, pumps, etc. I dry the gear that I hang in te shower with a fan and it's never caused a problem that I could attribute to it. The real killers of dry suit seals are exposure to UV and sunscreens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I wouldn't worry about them at all. Most household motors are phased and don't create arcs that generate ozone molecules. High torque motors that conduct electricity to the rotor are used infrequently. Even then they don't make enough to worry about if there is some air exchange in the building.Exposures to bending abrasion, chlorine, petroleum distillates or UV are more likely to shorten the service life.Things dry quickly in the low humidity this time of year.The heater is a good thing as long as it doesn't overheat your gear. Small ceramic heaters warm the air passing through the elements and put out the convective heat you want.Radiant space heaters transmit heat through the air to more receptive surfaces. It can build up and too much heat will outgas the plasticizers in the material.I'm still wearing neoprene and rinse it thoroughly before drying it inside out first. So far that keeps the mold and bacteria from becoming a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'm 95% certain that the waterproof breathable fabric in the Ravenspring suits is a 2-layer laminate. From everything I've read about WPB fabrics, this means that the special membrane on the inside is exposed and fragile. I think that the suit should be washed very carefully, and the clothing worn inside should be as free of zippers, buckles, and other hardware as possible.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 "What fabric do you use?A: The fabric used on all our breathing drysuits and tops is a strong nylon, especially coated for us with elastomeric (very stretchy) proofing made up of two different yet compatible molecular chains. One chain is water loving- hydrophilic, the other water hating- hydrophobic. When perspiration evaporates it separates into individual molecules which upon touching the proofing are'sucked in' quickly passing through the structure using the hydrophilic molecules as stepping stones, going from relatively high humidity inside the garment to the low humidity outside."It's not a laminate like Gore-Tex, which is a PTFE (aka Teflon) membrane laminated to an outerfabric and which either has a separate liner fabric (2 layer Gore-Tex) or a laminated on liner (3 layer Gore-Tex). Consequently, the care instructions may differ completely. However, that doesn't imply that it's any less durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I came to my conclusions after looking at the fabric and listening to the experience of other Ravenspring owners. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my new drysuit. However, I am going to treat it with care.Dee Hall Impex Currituck, Blue over Ivory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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