NRS Hydroskin

[spider]

I thought for sure that "Hydroskin" was marketed as being water proof.

So much so that this summer my wife bought me a pair of their pants as a birthday present to go along with the hydroskin shirt I already had.

Now, I thought the shirt wetted through from perspiration, and the pants seemed waterproof when wading through the shallows.

However in short order I found that, even in cooler temps, my pants were drenched after a session of rolling practice much like I would expect any neoprene to be. (I never mentioned it to her)

Looking up the product on their site I see no mention of it as a waterproof or water resistant.

Were we mistaken or did they change their marketing claims ?

Nice product and all... but in cold temps I would be freezing as soon as I landed and started walking about.

[ccarlson]

Hydroskin is essentially 0.5mm neoprene with some fuzzy stuff on the inside face. Without seals on the sleeves, neck, waist, or ankles, water enters the garment as with any neoprene paddlewear. Like a wetsuit, the hydroskin will serve to keep this layer of water against the skin somewhat warmer than the outside water provided it fits snugly and there is minimal flushing. Of course, at only 0.5mm thickness, the insulating value of the hydroskin is far less than for the usual 3.0mm used in wetsuits. I find the hydroskin suitable for warmer water temps but certainly not for the below-60 temps we now have.

[Kevin B (RPS Coach)]

Spider,

The hydroskin is not waterproof in any way and as far as I know, they haven't been marketed in that way. Gilly and I both use them as wicking layers under our wetsuits and drysuits.

[spider]

I looked harder and found my NRS cataloge and the probable source of our confusion.

The 5th selling point of the fabric..."DWR coating forces water to "bead" and roll off the material"

Perhaps our expectations were a bit overly optimistic...

or

perhaps the claim is a bit over stated...

[Dee Hall]

When buying any neoprene, Hyrdoskin included, it's ability to keep you warm depends on several factors:

1. Thickness of neoprene - neoprene comes in many thicknesses. Commonly we use 3mm farmer johns and thinner tops, but thinner shorties, or shorts, pants, etc. are useful in the warmer weather.

2. Seams - some pieces have seams that are waterproof, some don't. The hydroskin isn't. Having water flush slowly in through the seams will definitely make you colder

3. Fit - A snugger fit will slow the flushing of cold water and result in more warmth when immersed. Adding a light or mid-weight first layer underneath can also help and also adds insulation.

-Dee

[scamlin]

The DWR coating is actually critical to the warmth of Hydroskin...and indeed any kayak clothing. The reason? Evaporative cooling. As water evaporates, it releases a relatively huge amoung of energy/heat. One purpose of DWR coatings is to keep the water off the surface (beading and rolling off) and particularly from soaking into the material.

While Hydro is useful in mild weather, I've found it particularly susceptible to evaporative cooling: the nylon skin gets wet, provides an ideal wick for cooling and given the .5mm thickness of the middle neoprene layer, not much to keep the cooling outer layer from sucking heat from the inner layer...and you. I've been really wearing Hydroskin chilled in 60 degree weather (not water!) when there is any kind of wind.

Same applies to GoreTex, only not as dramatic. Some old school paddlers will tell you that GoreTex is not as warm as coated nylon because when the GoreTex gets wet and the moisture evaporates, it allows more moisture to get pulled through the material, which encourages evaporation in the insulating layer and ultimtely on your skin. Non-breathable shells can feel like a sauna, but inhibit evaporative cooling.

Bottom line: while we rightfully worry about heat loss during immersion in the water, we spend virtually all of our time above water. If you attend a cold water workshop, you'll hear that you lose heat at a 25 times greater rate in water than in air. But that is conductive heat transfer (i.e. happens through physical contact) which is much more efficient in liquids than air due to the density of the medium. Evaporative cooling goes one step further: the physics of phase transition (i.e. from liquid to gas) is a much more efficient way to lose heat, and it happens while above water. The human body survives on this principle: it's called sweat. It's also the same principle behind air conditioners.

So, be mindful of wetted out materials and the resulting evaporative cooling. Most garmets lose their DWR after only two or three seasons. You can reapply DWR coatings to both neoprene and shells, including GoreTex. There are both sprays and wash-in products. Be sure to thoroughly clean the garmet before treating it: otherwise the stuff won't stick. Some also claim a warm iron will refresh the DWR coating, but I've not tried it. Or you can simply put on a paddle jacket if the Hydroskin is wet and the wind is blowing.

My experience is that the Hydroskin material does not breath particularly well (or at all), so I'm puzzled by Kevin's comment that it is a wicking layer under shells. The nylon lining is certainly more comfortable than raw neoprene, but there is really nowhere for the moisture to go when you sweat. I believe neoprene material itself IS waterproof: it's closed cell foam, is it not?. The leakage is seams and openings as others have noted. I typically wear a lightweight capiline layer under my Hydroskin for comfort even though it somehwat compromises fit and therefore warmth (see Dee's comment).

The advantage of wearing neoprene under drysuits or drytops, it would seem to me, is more that it will provide insulation even if the shell is compromised and water enters. Insulation normally worn under shells such as fleece is pretty ineffective once wet.

Scott

[spider]

I need to rethink the way I'm dressing for these temps and all.

Yesterday I wore hydro bottoms along with my regular spray skirt (neoprene) and I was drenched by lunch time. I was the only person standing around like "Mr Soggy Bottoms" while every one else was nice and dry.

It had been an exceptionaly easy paddle so it has to be generated by myself. It was a dry ride other than that.

If it's closed cell or not is what I'm unsure of. I didn't start thinking it through till I saw that mukluks are offered as water proof neopreene or the regular kind which keeps your feet warm though wet.

For example I don't know which type my spray skirt is made of.