Car topping - bow and stern tie downs

[shewhorn]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a quick way to secure the bow and stern? At the moment I'm using rope... doing the truckers hitch thing to get some mechanical advantage, etc. Not hard to do by any stretch of the imagination but it's tedious and when the mosquitos are biting well... it's something I'd rather not have to deal with. I bought some bunge and 'biners this week and tried to rig something that might be a little faster but in order to have enough strength from the bungees I didn't really feel comfortable without having 4 lines and at that point the knots to secure them were a thick ugly mess so I'm thinking that's not such a good idea.

Any other solutions that make quick work of bow and stern lines?

FWIW I'm using Yakima J cradles, the car is a Subaru WRX sedan.

Cheers, Joe

[bob budd]

We started out with a rope with a hook at one end and a loop with a releasable ratchet system on the other. Eventually we ended up with tying taught lines to the boats and dispensing with the ratchet. One issue was that if the rope managed to come free there was a non-trivial object at the end of the rope that could crack the windshield. As far as the mosquitoes, etc. we do untie the rope from the bumper/undercarriage so tying the rope on the boats at the end of the day means tying the taught line which is pretty quick.

[djlewis]

My understanding of bow/stern lines is they are a last defense against rack failure. If the rack or primary tie-downs come loose, the boat will still be attached to your car, albeit loosely, rather than careening down Route 95 smashing other cars and likely causing serious crack-ups. So the bow/stern lines are not intended to add any tie-down grip beyond what you get from the primary lines around the belly of the boat.

The reason, especially if you're using a trucker's hitch, is that pulling the bow/stern lines tight enough for significant tie-down power can actually crack or bend the boat. That hitch gives you a lot of leverage, much more than a tautline hitch, which is what I surmise Bob and Dee are using. And, the force is out at the ends of the boat, thus exerting pressure in a potentially damaging way.

Bottom line (pun intended?) -- just take the slack out of the bow/stern lines; don't tighten them down beyond that. Also, make sure they are secured to the car well enough to stay attached with a loose boat.

BTW, I'm usually too lazy to use them at all. ;-)))

--David.

[tedious]

We tend to use bow and stern ropes only for longer trips. I spliced a couple of painters for our boats and we use those, and don't tighten them very much at all. On occasion I have also just used a conventional tie-down strap: tie off one end and use the buckle to tighten.

When carrying a full load of windsurfing gear down to Cape Hatteras, we use the "rope through the doors" trick for extra security. Very safe, although it tends to drip inside the car if it rains.

T.

[shewhorn]

Re: the trucker's hitch... I'm not putting a ridiculous amount of torque on them (especially with a roto boat). Just enough to take up the slack and keep them from flapping around in the wind. One of the problems I run into is stability on my rack. Because of the car I have the cradles are spread at 25". Ideally I'd have a greater spread and that would add stability but... it's just not gonna happen. If I just rely on the straps (which do secure the boat for the most part) the bow and stern will still bounce up and down whenever I go over any significant bump. If I torque down on the straps more I'm gonna put more dents in the hull than there already are.

I never had kayaking in mind when I bought this car (I specifically bought it for autocrossing and skiing) otherwise I'd have probably gone with the wagon version. LOL

Cheers, Joe

[Dee Hall]

If your rope pieces are coming together at a shallow angle, then a tautline is sufficient and really fast when the skeeters are buggin' you. (Leave the other end of the line tied to the car while you are in the water.) However, if the two pieces of rope are not at a shallow angle, then you need a truckers hitch (or different route through your boats which will bring them together at a shallow angle).

By the way, use a bowline on the end tied to the car. It is also quick to tie once you have practiced it and nothing is more secure.

-Dee

[eneumeier]

I lifted up my front hood and found places to attach two little loops, one on each side,so they hang out just enough to use when the hood is closed. So, I can quickly throw a line around my bow, going through the deckline, and clip it on. (I have lines set up to length with a nylon clip on one end.) Very quick. No searching under the car in the dusk for the tie-on spot. And, yes, the lines are fairly loose so I don't bend the boat in half when it flexes.

My pre-Saab wagon car, a Mazda MX-6, also was purchased pre-kayaking and had a very short roof line. I got the Thule extender bar and feet to get a bigger spread. I still have them if you want to try them out. (I'd sell them really cheap.)

Liz N.

[shewhorn]

Hi Liz,

I'm not sure the Thule bar would be compatible with my rack (it's a Yakima but thanks for the offer) but that may be a good solution for some added stability if that's available for my car. Ideally I'd like the cradles to be as close to the bulkheads as possible (I'm nowhere near that right now).

My car is only at 75k so there's a lot of life left in it yet but I have a feeling that my next car is going to be a wagon.

Cheers, Joe

[jeffcasey]

I keep two ropes handy with carabiners attached, and each has a sliding hitch to take up the slack (don't know what it is called - same one I use on tent guy-lines). Most Suburus (at least the 3 we've owned) have attachment points near the wheels where the biners can clip (I've been told that these are tie downs for shipping). With the carabiners, attachment and adjustment is only a few seconds.

I **ALWAYS** use these when carrying the boats car-top - the consequences of a rack failure are just too horrible to comprehend, and the extra effort is cheap. I agree with the other gurus here - don't tie them tight, just take the slack out, they are meant to keep the horrible mess attached and rattling around on your car while you madly apply the brakes if the whole thing comes off...not as a primary constraint. If they are snug, they can also reduce the chance of loosening the primary constraint straps, since the wiggling will be less.

(Nowadays, I usually carry the boat(s) on a trailer, and don't use bow or stern lines. There is no equivalent rack failure mechanism on the trailer, and two straps are quite trustworthy.)

[shewhorn]

>(I have lines set up to length with a nylon clip on one

>end.) Very quick. No searching under the car in the dusk for

>the tie-on spot. And, yes, the lines are fairly loose so I

>don't bend the boat in half when it flexes.

Hmmm.... the nylon clip may be part of the solution. This is what I was after with the carabiner but there's too much of a gap which would leave too much slack. I'm actually using the tow bolt for my bow tie down for my boat and like you I also have a loop coming out from the hood for my GF's boat. On the stern I have to loop through one of tow clips on the frame but it's easy to find and I can do it without looking.

Cheers, Joe

[brwells]

For a quick commercial solution, Thule uses these as tie-downs. They were included with my carrier, but are not specific to Thule or to any particular car. Extremely easy to use.

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDis..._SSHP_RACKS_TOC

Brian

P&H Capella 163

Red/White/Black trim

[Suz]

Bow and Stern tie downs are a really good practice.

This past Sunday, I was driving north on 95 to Maine and was behind a big SUV that had a boat on top that was askew about 45 degrees. I waved them over and they retied the boat on. Their tie down straps were simply pulled taught and shoved threw the windows to take up the excess. They were blissfully unaware that they were about to loose the boat. No bow or stern lines at all.

Bow and stern lines aid in the event that your rack fails but more importantly it gives you a good idea of what your boat is doing on top of the car.

I can think of four separate times that I have waived people over as their boat was askew. Two were people I know and we were caravaning and two were strangers.

It's really quite sobering to think of the devastation you can cause if your boat comes off the rack while you are driving on the highway. If you are lucky, no one will be killed and you will simply lose your boat.

Suz

(who of late has been lazy and skipping the bow line - I pledge to use it in the future)

[scamlin]

It's a tautline hitch:

http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/tautlinehitch.htm

Scott

[subaruguru]

Well, you've identified that the primary concern is the short inter-rail distance on the Imp sedan's roof. Because of the more-narrowly defined market for used WRXs, you might just get the word out that you'd consider selling yours...at a fairly highish price. One of the 100,000 returning students might want a pretty blue Comm Ave scorcher. You know where you can get a good Leg/OB wag when the time comes...just give me lead time if you insist on a stick.

I wouldn't worry too much about overtightening bow and stern lines on your PLASTIC Tempest temporarily, as you can't crack it; but be careful not to store it tightened in the sunlight, as longer plastic yaks will oilcan and banana easily.

Congrats again on your roll! You looked mighty good Tuesday.

Cheers.

(FYI I've NEVER seen the Yakima-made Subie crossbars pull off a factory roof, but the issue of strap loosening or failure of course still exists. The "mighty mounts" and Thule similar are certainly strong enough to hold Yakima and Thule hardware such that Subie sells the Yakima mounts as OE for about $17 retail instead of Yakima $30 retail...one of the few times it's actually cheaper to buy as a car part!)