Motor Boats, Encounters, and CAM

[alcoons]

On the return from the Dog Bar to Tucks yesterday the group of 9 paddlers noticed many fewer motor boats than in the past. Still there were enough some were kind enough to alter their courses well ahead of time. The normal encounters one expects on trips like this - both out of the wide channels and in them.

However, we did have two encounters that are worth reporting. Twice, as we paddled parallel to the shore (no channel) between Hammond Castle and Magnolia Harbor in choppy conditions, small power boats coming at us head-on did NOT see us. As this became clear we raised our paddles vertically. In the first case the boat saw us immediately and changed course. The second took much longer to see us. Long enough so the instant before it turned, those of us paddling in the lead simultaneous yelled at the boat. Afterwards we wondered why we yelled because it certainly could make no difference. However, that reaction made it clear that the boat had come too close before seeing us. In retrospect, it felt like the situation with airliners on the same course which are 2 miles apart. It seemed like a long way, but because of their speed, if they don't react immediately, they are on top of each other in an instant.

So:

1) Raising paddles did help.

2) Don't hesitate to get them up early.

3) I plan to wave mine back and forth with more vigor in the future.

4) I have noticed that the trips I have been on have been much like the old show-and-goes since our efforts to clarify the leadership in CAM trips . Beach briefing, working together, etc. A nice balance of unofficial leadership and good decisions. It feels good. Still, a bit of the residue of the initial (incorrect) sense of CAM (no leaders) can still have an effect in a new situation and slow reaction time a bit.

Would love to hear from the others on the trip about how they saw this situation.

Note: This was not a close encounter in the sense that either motor boat just missed us. The boats did see us and react. However, the delayed reaction of second boat had many of us worried. It was the closest in my time on NE waters and the only time I was actually worried.

PS. As some of us waited by the side of the busy, narrow Manchester channel just across from the take-out, a medium size motor boat stopped and waved us across the channel.

[chetpk]

Being one who was on that trip who also yelled at the boat, I would like to commend the whole group for staying together as a cohesive pod. Whether or not being a pod with a number of paddles going up together is what triggered a different path by the said motor boater we will never know for sure, but I do believe it probably made it easier for us to be seen because of the number of paddles going up. My paddle blade just happens to be an orange color and I also wondered how much a bright colored blade might play into it. There was enough chop that I'm sure we were a little hard to be easily seen when we were just paddling.

The other thought I did have is it is very hard for the kayaker to see or for that matter hear who might be approaching a pod from directly in back of the paddlers. I do not know what the best procedure would be for first detecting that safety threat then how to handle that scenario. Thoughts?

[EEL]

However, we did have two encounters that are worth reporting. Twice, as we paddled parallel to the shore (no channel) between Hammond Castle and Magnolia Harbor in choppy conditions, small power boats coming at us head-on did NOT see us.

How far off shore were you?

Did you need and/or did you alter course to avoid collision course?

With some trepidation, I raise the issue of who is obligated to change course under the Rules.

I do not believe the power boat has the sole obligation to do so.

Ed Lawson

[chetpk]

How far off shore were you?

Did you need and/or did you alter course to avoid collision course?

With some trepidation, I raise the issue of who is obligated to change course under the Rules.

I do not believe the power boat has the sole obligation to do so.

Ed Lawson

Looking at a Google Earth map of the area I would say the incident Al spoke of took place near Dundy Rock which when I measured it out put us approximately 0.16 of a mile off shore. It was in an area where I suspect you would only encounter smaller outboard powered types of boats like the one being spoken of. Although I wouldn't say it was traveling at a high rate of speed, I felt it was moving quick enough to have made it very difficult to have been able to have out maneuvered it in a kayak. The boat appeared to me to be riding somewhat stern heavy and bow high which might also have attributed to them not initially seeing us. If I remember right it kept slightly varying its' course making it hard to get a read on where it was going to go.

[bob budd]

I believe it boils down to the right of way is given to the least maneuverable boat. "Maintain course and speed" also bears consideration but in the end avoiding a collision is the preeminent rule.

[djlewis]

The second took much longer to see us. Long enough so the instant before it turned, those of us paddling in the lead simultaneous yelled at the boat. Afterwards we wondered why we yelled because it certainly could make no difference. However, that reaction made it clear that the boat had come too close before seeing us.

Is it possible that the second boat did see you but was intentionally trying to scare you by coming close? This sort of thing does happen (though it hasn't to me yet -- knock wood)

--David.

[Phil Allen]

Is it possible that the second boat did see you but was intentionally trying to scare you by coming close? This sort of thing does happen (though it hasn't to me yet -- knock wood)

--David.

David-

Probably not. They didn't come so close as one would expect if they were actively playing chicken. (My experience is that A$$h@le's tend to pass along side hoping to get you with their wake). More likely just up on plane and not focused on the water immediately in front of them. After all, they were in a small boat, so everything they might need to worry about would be bigger than them and obvious, wouldn't it?

Phil

[Deb Millar]

On the return from the Dog Bar to Tucks yesterday the group of 9 paddlers noticed many fewer motor boats than in the past. Still there were enough some were kind enough to alter their courses well ahead of time. The normal encounters one expects on trips like this - both out of the wide channels and in them.

However, we did have two encounters that are worth reporting. Twice, as we paddled parallel to the shore (no channel) between Hammond Castle and Magnolia Harbor in choppy conditions, small power boats coming at us head-on did NOT see us. As this became clear we raised our paddles vertically. In the first case the boat saw us immediately and changed course. The second took much longer to see us. Long enough so the instant before it turned, those of us paddling in the lead simultaneous yelled at the boat. Afterwards we wondered why we yelled because it certainly could make no difference. However, that reaction made it clear that the boat had come too close before seeing us. In retrospect, it felt like the situation with airliners on the same course which are 2 miles apart. It seemed like a long way, but because of their speed, if they don't react immediately, they are on top of each other in an instant.

So:

1) Raising paddles did help.

2) Don't hesitate to get them up early.

3) I plan to wave mine back and forth with more vigor in the future.

4) I have noticed that the trips I have been on have been much like the old show-and-goes since our efforts to clarify the leadership in CAM trips . Beach briefing, working together, etc. A nice balance of unofficial leadership and good decisions. It feels good. Still, a bit of the residue of the initial (incorrect) sense of CAM (no leaders) can still have an effect in a new situation and slow reaction time a bit.

Would love to hear from the others on the trip about how they saw this situation.

Note: This was not a close encounter in the sense that either motor boat just missed us. The boats did see us and react. However, the delayed reaction of second boat had many of us worried. It was the closest in my time on NE waters and the only time I was actually worried.

PS. As some of us waited by the side of the busy, narrow Manchester channel just across from the take-out, a medium size motor boat stopped and waved us across the channel.

While I wasn't there, I think in the future you might want to always be aware that many boats, whether sail under sail, sail under power, power boats, jet skis, and ferries really can't see a kayaker until it is too late. While we are in hand paddled craft and thus assume our puniness, in comparison to the even the ubiquitous Lunds , gives us the right of way, it really doesn't. Therefore it's better to be safe than sorry and, whenever possible, stay out of the way. Boats, even boats under sail, move a lot faster than they appear and taking evasive action from the first sighting might be a good idea.

I don't know what kind of conditions you had between Hammond and Magnolia although I've paddled in the area. Perhaps the next time you're in boat traffic but are close to a shoreline,it might be best to err on the side of caution and keep as close to that shoreline as possible without endangering yourselves. Even being 10 feet away from the boulders (and somewhat out of the back wash of wave on granite) still keeps you safer, and what's some gel coat off the hull in comparison to a close encounter with Evinrude?

It might also be helpful to learn the method of judging where a boat is going to pass a kayak and thus be able to take action before it's too late. Most of the books on kayaking, Shelley Johnson's and Bill Robison's especially, have text and pictures that show a paddler how to judge this.

Using the Bow Angle Method:

While maintaining speed and position, note the boat's position in relation to your bow and then how that position changes over a few seconds.

If it:

1.) Moves closer to your bow, the boat will pass in front of you.

2.) Moves closer to your stern, the boat will pass in back of you.

3.) No angle change, you're on a collision course and it's time to MOVE.

Crossings are tricky, especially long ones across a busy channel. Keeping the group informed that the crossing is happening and then keeping the group tightly together, including the speed demons and the slower paddlers, is especially important. However, don't assume that the approaching boat necessarily is going to see all of you any better. This is when using the bow angle method is especially useful.

Robison also writes that the more maneuvereble (and squishable -- Robison's a fun, easy and easily understandable read, and he's pretty right on) vessel yields to the Queen Mary, the Lund driven by adolescents and clammers intent on getting their catch to market, and the ferry, high speed or otherwise, to Martha's Vineyard, Provincetown or Boston.

Hope this helps.

Deb M

[alcoons]

Thanks for the good replies.

The reason I posted this particular event was to suggest that groups need to react earlier than latter when a boat appears to not see the group. Many of the suggestions made earlier in this thread are great ones, but in this case it was simply a matter of the motor boat not seeing us, perhaps out of lack of focus or perhaps because we were hard to see. By chance we were not in a channel, well grouped and had reacted in appropriate ways to other power boats during the trip. This could have just as easily happened 2 miles from shore.

Since the boat seemed to erratically change course and then return to our heading, we were not left with many options. I guess the next step would have been to pick a direction to one side and paddle like Olympians.

Al

[JohnHuth]

I hope people continue to post incidents like this - they're useful to hear.

My most recent experience was a bit sobering. I was paddling to Northeast Harbor over a few crossings, and my family, including in-laws were taking a water taxi at roughly the same time. I saw the boat go by me no more than 100 feet away, and I tried to get their attention, even tried to get them on VHF chan. 16 (yes, I know I shouldn't have done that). I waved my paddle, yelled, whistled, blew my fog horn - you name it.

When I arrived at Northeast Harbor, my brother-in-law said that he'd been looking for me the entire time they were on the boat, and he didn't see me at all, and here he'd been less than 100 feet from me at one point.

My standard practice is to assume that a boat won't see me until they're right on top of me, and practice defensive paddling. That takes a bit of judgment about their heading and speed - and it helps to be able to look at the hull when they're approaching. Often times, at a distance, it appears that they're on a collision course, but when they get closer it becomes apparent that they really weren't.

[Phil Allen]

I hope people continue to post incidents like this - they're useful to hear.

My most recent experience was a bit sobering. ......

Often times, at a distance, it appears that they're on a collision course, but when they get closer it becomes apparent that they really weren't.

John, thanks for the example.

It's been my experience that "head on" (~180degree direction of travel) or "directly overtaking" (same direction of travel) are the hardest conditions to judge. If they're on a course that they think is going to miss you, the difference in angle between the course of the boat and kayak is small until the very last minute. And if one thinks they're not going to miss you short of an emergency change in course, the direction of escape isn't always obvious. Nothing like a quick sprint towards the path the powerboat planned to use to pass.

Phil

[djlewis]

It might also be helpful to learn the method of judging where a boat is going to pass a kayak and thus be able to take action before it's too late. Most of the books on kayaking, Shelley Johnson's and Bill Robison's especially, have text and pictures that show a paddler how to judge this.

Using the Bow Angle Method:

While maintaining speed and position, note the boat's position in relation to your bow and then how that position changes over a few seconds.

If it:

1.) Moves closer to your bow, the boat will pass in front of you.

2.) Moves closer to your stern, the boat will pass in back of you.

3.) No angle change, you're on a collision course and it's time to MOVE.

I also recommend (and generally prefer) the background method. Just keep padding your course -- if the other boat appears stationary against the background (shore, clouds, buoys, slow-moving other boats), you are on a collision course. If they are coming from, say, the right and are moving left against the background, they will pass in front of you; moving right, will pass behind you. Etc.

This depends on having a differentiated background, which is usually the case. It does not depend on keeping a steady bow angle, though if you are varying your bow angle a lot, you are also probably not on a straight course.

--David.

[bbjorn]

I have a couple suggestions that could improve our odds of being seen.

If we are facing an approaching boat with our bows, as I believe we were in this instance, each of us presents a very small visual image. If instead we have time to turn our boat closer to a right angle to the approaching boat's path, the apparent image would be many times larger and would significantly improve chances of being spotted early on.

While living in a remote Samoan village in the late '60's, I spent a lot of amount of time out in my dugout outrigger canoe. I was taught by the Samoans that when you approach an unfamiliar village from outside the reef with surf breaking over it and you need to find that very narrow channel through the coral to the beach, you can use your paddle to attract attention. Holding it vertically and spinning it reflects flashes of sunlight that can be seen from a distance. This will often get a villager to come and point the way in. I'm not sure if a kayak paddle can be spun as easily as a canoe paddle, or if the curved blade would be as effective, but if the sun is shining I plan on trying it next time.

Blaine

[Phil Allen]

Blaine-

That's an interesting idea. I carry a signaling mirror, which if the orientations were close, might work as well.

Phil

[Pintail]

Al -- this is a worthwhile post; but your analogy regarding aviation is inaccurate, I regret to say.

<In retrospect, it felt like the situation with airliners on the same course which are 2 miles apart. It <seemed like a long way, but because of their speed, if they don't react immediately, they are on top <of each other in an instant.

Airliners fly on instrument flightplans and, as such -- and providing air traffic control do their job properly -- in-flight collision cannot occur since each individual is assigned a "parcel" of airspace to itself. If those two aircraft are on parallel courses, then two miles is inadequate separation: the more likely scenario would be that they are separated horizontally by four thousand feet, depending on their altitude or flight level -- in <that> case, they could safely come within a mile or two of each other.

Sorry for busting your nice story open!

Oh, and DebM, since the Queen Mary is docked permanently alongside Long Beach, CA (?), I do not think anyone needs to give way to her? Perhaps you mean the Queen Mary 2?

[alcoons]

Al -- this is a worthwhile post; but your analogy regarding aviation is inaccurate, I regret to say.

<In retrospect, it felt like the situation with airliners on the same course which are 2 miles apart. It <seemed like a long way, but because of their speed, if they don't react immediately, they are on top <of each other in an instant.

Airliners fly on instrument flightplans and, as such -- and providing air traffic control do their job properly -- in-flight collision cannot occur since each individual is assigned a "parcel" of airspace to itself. If those two aircraft are on parallel courses, then two miles is inadequate separation: the more likely scenario would be that they are separated horizontally by four thousand feet, depending on their altitude or flight level -- in <that> case, they could safely come within a mile or two of each other.

Sorry for busting your nice story open!

Gee..hard to make a point...convert it two aircraft on the same runway...which has happened in the past. Not only at Tenerife but also when I was trying to land a small plane at Hanscom...glad I reacted. If not, hitting the jet on the end of the runway would have limited my future kayaking.

[bob budd]

Al, its not your fault. This sort of thing is part of Christopher's unique charm.

[risingsn]

Being one who was on that trip who also yelled at the boat, I would like to commend the whole group for staying together as a cohesive pod. Whether or not being a pod with a number of paddles going up together is what triggered a different path by the said motor boater we will never know for sure, but I do believe it probably made it easier for us to be seen because of the number of paddles going up. My paddle blade just happens to be an orange color and I also wondered how much a bright colored blade might play into it. There was enough chop that I'm sure we were a little hard to be easily seen when we were just paddling.

The other thought I did have is it is very hard for the kayaker to see or for that matter hear who might be approaching a pod from directly in back of the paddlers. I do not know what the best procedure would be for first detecting that safety threat then how to handle that scenario. Thoughts?

My first coach was an old Marine from Maine. He said "keep your head on a swivel & check your six". You are right paddling into the wind with abit of a chop the first hint of that boat may be the impact.

[risingsn]

Al, its not your fault. This sort of thing is part of Christopher's unique charm.

..but most importantly we all must remember "the law of tonnage". Just about everything is bigger than a kayak. When they are lowering you into the ground it woun't matter if you had the right of way.