rcohn

A different theory would be more in line with documented behaviour of bears. Bears learn the weak points in various automobiles and apparently even teach this to, or learn this from, other bears. Suppose the sharks are, like bears, simply trying to find the easiest way to peel the kayak off of the soft gooey snack inside. What's more, sharks were long thought to be solitary hunters but recent behaviour has been observed where sharks drive prey to other sharks and otherwise operate in an organized manner. Perhaps this shark was waiting for another to do the dirty deed and the second shark chickened out, kind of like a gang initiation gone bad.

It was just a "test bite" to see if a kayak is good to eat. It wasn't, so the shark let go. Great whites tend to be picky eaters; they seem to prefer meals with a high fat content like seals and sea lions. Since it takes at least a week to digest a meal, there is no reason to fill its stomach with low nutrition food when there are plenty of seals and sea lions in the area.

Ralph

Frequent closures this year are making access to Walden more difficult than in the past.

Good luck,

Ralph

What I think is I will not participate in a jejune discussion about something so patently obvious. Of course it is easier to do the all the various Greenland rolls a SOF boat optimized for rolling. After all they are called "rolling" or "cheater" boats for a reason. I said "traditional boat" to indicate I was talking about a "normal" Greenland hunting boat. I should have specified that I was speaking of doing the "standard" extended GP roll and not the full pantheon of Greenland rolls.

This past weekend I got in a Tiderace with no seat and no outfitting after playing about in my traditional SOF. The Tiderace was absurdly easy to roll. My impression and YMMV is that it is just as easy if not easier to do the "standard"roll and other basic rolls such as the storm, butterfly and shotgun in it and say the Romany, Tempest 165, and of course the Tahe Greenland as in a typical "traditonal" SOF.

Ed Lawson

Who should have expected the Spanish Inquisition

The standard Greenland roll is so ridiculously easy to do that it is hard to make much of a comparison. It only becomes difficult when boat contact is very poor or the rear deck prevents laybacks. Moving up to back-deck finishing hand rolls and forward finishing norsaq (or hand rolls if you’re really good) provides a much clearer comparison of ease of rolling.

What hunting qajaqs are you referring too? My replica of “Knud Rasmussen’s Kayak†http://good-times.webshots.com/album/563951706IAjPAn

circa 1920s-1930s from the lines in KOG plate 78. is a full sized Greenland Hunting qajaq actually on the larger size, and it is the best roller I’ve used. This is a South Greenland kayak, original in the Danish national Museum Catalog no. L.18.178.

The De Rijper, a hunting qajaq is reported to be an excellent roller by those who can fit in it. Replica of East Greenland KOG 87 is at Walden and a good roller. LC-148, "Elsie" semi-replica East Greenland kayak currently for sale is an excellent roller that I managed to squeeze into and found it nearly as nice as my Knud Rasmussen’s Kayak. The Goodnow replica also at Walden is excellent. The list goes on and on, so what hunting qajaqs are you referring to which roll as poorly as a commercial FG kayak?

As is so often the case what might seem obvious to an ill-informed outsider to an activity, is not nearly so obvious to the actual participants.

Ralph

Personally I do not believe .... nor do I believe a traditional SOF is easier to roll than a good FG. However, they do make it fun to roll and to explore different ways of rolling so many find it an enjoyable activity just as some like to play in rocks or surf.

If that is what you think, it simply indicates that either you have never been in a good rolling SOF or don't know enough about advanced rolling to feel the difference. I have never been in a commercial FG boat that came close to a SOF that is optimized for ease of rolling.

Ralph

2- The quick detach systems designed for diving dry suits (wrist rings) totally compromise your dry suit when the gloves are detached. A capsize would result in t flood of water entering at the wrists. The wrist ring system is meant for use in an activity - diving - where you never take off your gloves except when donning or removing your gear before and after dives.

There are diving systems using rings and wrist seals so that a torn glove will not compromise the suit. The main problem for kayaking is that you need help to fasten the rings, nearly impossible to make a secure seal using one hand.

Ralph

I have seen diving drysuits with gloves at a diving shop and was told by the owner that they could add them to a paddling drysuit. The ones I saw had a locking metal ring attachment system and did not seem particularly suitable for paddling.

lots of options for attached gloves, DUI zip seals and gloves are a nice system that lets you choose seal or gloves and quickly replace torn seals.

Much greater advantage to attached gloves in diving compared to kayaking. I don't think they would be worth the hassle for kayaking, nordic blues are fine.

Ralph

From the above it would seem that an investment in a dry-suit for 43 degree F. water is a no brainer. The dry-suit provides about three times the immersion time the wet-suit does before the respective ill effects set in. It would be helpful to see the same chart for warmer temperatures too. As an example I'm usually in a wet-suit in 50's water. Maybe I'm better of in a dry suit then as well.

That was a drysuit w/fiber-fill insul: which I assume is diving level insulation. With the level of insulation kayakers use you won't last nearly as long.

Ralph

Well, since you asked, the Ekman layer is about 10-20 meters deep. It is doubtful that the wind would be strong enough to reverse a tidal current. For a 40 knot wind blowing over a long fetch, this would generate a current of about 0.8 knots, not enough to reverse a tidal current.

I'd need to pull out my copy of Knauss to be sure, but as I recall, the flow is in a sort of spiral with the current direction changing with depth. Currents are all in the horizontal plane with no water transport in the vertical direction.

Ralph

The Sea Raven is distinguished from other sculpins by the two taller spines at the front of the dorsal fin, clearly evident in Suz' picture. They are also reddish/maroon in color, although indeed they can also be a bright yellow as in one of Neil's pictures. (I saw one in this color phase up by H20 /Orrs Island).

The sea robin has long pectoral spines, and the monkfish (or goosefish: Lophius) is more flattened, usually a grey to brown color, and has virtually no dorsal fin.

I vote for sea raven also, one of my favorite fish to see when diving. Colors vary, I've seen several that were brown. A very reliable friend watched a yellow sea raven swim to a new spot and turn brown.

The one time I've seen a goosefish underwater (10 years ago) I mistook it for some type of skate, a friend correctly identfied it. They were very common in the shallow coastal water years ago, but are almost never seen by divers now.

Ralph

Yes I can. I am comfortably warm when using it and suffer pain when I don't.

Ty

You're claiming you are comfortably warm, when fully immersed (ie. underwater) while wearing a fleece hood, when there is ice in the water? Just want to get this straight.

Ralph

Not to detract from the hoods you like which I have not tried, but the one I use works extremely well.

I would think it would be hard to tell if a hood works "extremely well" if you haven't had any experience with the alternatives. Also, we don't know what the water temperatures were when you used the hood.

Ralph

You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. A good surfer's hood should be made to minimize a large influx of cold water around the face that frequently occurs when your head hits the water surface. Since this is not an issue when diving, the hoods are not designed reduce the neoprene stretch around the face.

Ralph

This is the hood I have which works well. http://www.oregonsurfshop.com/Oneill-3mm-C...-Hood-0042.html Only issue may be that the drawstring is thin bungee rather than a non-stretch cord. I may replace it sometime. I haven't tried other surf hoods but from the pictures online they do not appear to all be equal. Tuilik hoods also work very well due to the tight drawstring around the face.

I would not care to roll in cold water using a fleece balaclava. If the water is really cold I would add my diver's Ice Cap under the hood which WILL eliminate all ice cream headaches. See http://www.shopwiki.com/Henderson+Wetsuits+Ice+Cap

Ralph

Tyson and Ed -- good suggestions about the hood. I'm going to find a diver's hood.

You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. A good surfer's hood should be made to minimize a large influx of cold water around the face that frequently occurs when your head hits the water surface. Since this is not an issue when diving, the hoods are not designed reduce the neoprene stretch around the face.

Ralph

Being that I've got a summer place on Deer Island, New Brunswick, I often look across the Old Sow and wonder about paddling in and around Eastport. From doing a bit of net research, I noticed there's a set of tidal rapids fairly close to Eastport. Have any of you paddled it in particular and what are your impressions of the area in general? I am looking for some different play spots I could hit and be back to Deer Island within a few hours.

Thanks very much,

Pete

I've been diving in Eastport, not kayaking, and those currents are extreme. I'm pretty sure a kayaker will not be able to make headway against a full current there, so make sure you gtet good advice before attempting to paddle there.

It is there best diving in New England for seeing marine life, but we onlydove at slack tide.

Ralph

My VERY limited experience is that they pretty much ask strangers to go away. I found no enthusiastic hospitality and was left with the feeling of a closed, private club. Emilie and I have been driving up to Maine to scratch the Greenland itch we've been developing.

The only contact I'm aware of was from the following post on the meet up board

Anyone for Sunday Sept 6th?

by emilie » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:19 pm

I got pointed in your guys direction to learn some more Greenland rolls, but the Friday evening sessions don't quite fit our schedule. So I was wondering if anyone would be up for a session this sunday?

Also between my fiance and I, we have one Greenland paddle (his) and no boats suitable for rolling, so we will need to borrow boats and a paddle.

Emilie

You didn't introduce yourselves, we have no clue who you might be. You requested a different day than our usual session and said you could bring one paddle expecting that we would supply qajaqs and all other necessary gear. One member sent you an email suggesting that you might want to reword your post and that apparently was the last we heard from you until now with this post attacking our group. Just who is the unfriendly one here?

Ralph

See attached TERRIBLE review, however.

Apparently this is not Spyderco or similar quality. Indeed, non-folding PFD-able McNett similar clones are on eBay for 2 for $20 shipped. Just keep it greased.

I've carried this knife for years in my BC pocket when diving. I read the review and I'm not impressed. Anyone who thinks a TI knife will hold an edge like high quality steel is a fool. A cheap TI knife is not meant for heavy use, but the edge should stay sharp enough to cut a couple of lines and the TI doesn't corrode or required constant application of silicone grease. I do have some rust stains at one of the pins, clearly the pin is steel.

I do agree that line cutters in knives are usually useless. Any I've seen are dull, ground to a bad angle, and difficult to sharpen. If you want a line cutter, one of the various dedicated cutters would be better.

Ralph

We discussed that it is possible to even get into the rescued boat while it is still sitting on the rescuers deck since the rescuer is there to stabilize.

This is how we recover low-volume rolling qajaqs, which would flood during a normal rescue. I've only seen it done when the qajaq is brought over the deck and drained before the person climbs on the rescuer's deck. It seems to work best if you slide the qajaq forward a bit so that the person is sliding in down hill with gravity assisting a bit. It also helps when the rescuer is in a low-volume qajaq which sinks fairly deep under the combined weight, so that the angle of the qajaq on deck isn't too extreme.

Ralph

However, what I was challenging is their claims of surf skis being inherently faster and safer. I'm looking for a solid explanation of why and/or objective data. I've not been able to find any.

Safer is an empty claim if it only applies to flat water as the "risk"' of a roll or re-entry failure is about nill on flat water. IMHO the safety card only comes into play where the conditions make safety a concern. If we aren't talking about at least a small craft advisory context, we aren't talking about safety concerns where skilled paddlers are involved.

You wanted to know why racers choose surfskis. Personally I have no opinion on this subject. However, I did read a thread on this topic, which I can't locate, where the racers replied that there is no speed advantage it was a matter of safety and speed of recovery. His answer was rather detailed and this quick synopsis does not do it justice and I don’t think he was talking about flat water. I don't believe that it matters whether skis are objectively safer, just whether the racers believe that they are safer. If a skilled paddler goes for a swim (very unlikely on flat water) it does seem clear that an SOT will recover faster, just hop on top and start paddling with minimal loss of time in a race.

Instead of arguing with a bunch of non-racers, why don’t you visit a board where some serious racers can provide a more definitive answer?

Ralph

...and I'd MUCH rather have one of those or one of these than a surf ski. ...and I see no reason that a surf ski would be faster.

This was discussed a few weeks ago on pnet I think. A racer replied, and as I recall the basic reason was safety and speed. Faster and easier to hop back on a SOT than to reenter and pump out a SINK. Try a search on pnet.

For a good laugh, read the dolphin charged my kayak thread, these people have no clue.

Ralph

In the scuba world, the Bay State Council of Divers http://www.baystatecouncil.org/ is an organization that helps to defend the legal rights of divers to access to the water, among other activities. The State's dive shops are a major component of the membership but it also includes individual divers and clubs. When for example, Gloucester tries to implement new anti-diver ordinances in violation of MA state law, they raise funds and hire a lawyer to defend our rights.

It probably doesn’t apply in this case, but if paddler access is becoming more restricted, perhaps paddlers and shops may need to become more organized as well.

Ralph

Thanks, all!

So far I count 8, five of us from this topic, plus verbal responses from 3 more. I'll bet we're a fleet of 14 boats by the time we're on the water.

I plan on joining you as well.

Ralph

I guess its a nifty parlour trick, but I see no practical use for this exercise other than working on your underwater hold time...

Since a paddler cannot only swim, but also breathe while you are swimming, it also teaches how to grab a few breathes while waiting for an eskimo rescue. see: http://www.seakayakermag.com/2006/April06/eskimo_roll01.htm

This might reduce the number of wet exits, keeping a few less accomplished rollers in their kayaks instead.

Ralph

I'll be joining too.

Ralph

Just returned from St. John. Many of the reefs and coral are in bad shape.

The last time I was diving in the BVI (next door to USVI) was three years ago and the reefs were in great shape. The stern section of the wreck of the RMS Rhone (a very famous and cool wreck) is at a depth accessible to snorklers. I don't know if there are any direct trips from St. Thomas of if you would need to take a ferry to Tortola and take a dive boat there. But if snorkeling in the USVI is in poor shape, a day trip to the BVI might be a good idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Rhone

Ralph

In WFA I was told that in waters of that temperature, (say, around 40 degrees F) a drysuit will buy a person about twenty minutes of normal function, i.e. to be able to perform tasks common to sea kayaking, after which one could expect to decline, some faster than others.

Hands are critical too. Once your hands become too cold to function, you're in serious trouble even if your core temperature is still ok.

Ralph