Pintail Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Is there some connection between the Rockpool Alaw range, the Tiderace Xcite and now the Maelstrom Vaag? I seem to think that the first two mentioned are both designs by Aled Williams; but will someone confirm this and then comment on the Maelstrom boats, please? They all look remarkably similar to my uneducated eye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 You are correct in that the rockpool alaw/bach and current tiderace boats are Aled's designs. Those from maelstrom are designed by the folks on their websites. How much anybody borrowed from others in their designs is unknown to me. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share Posted August 19, 2010 Aha! Thanks, Phil. So I was on the right track... What do we know about relative rocker among these designs? Are the Williams boats identical or merely similar? And how does the Maelstrom design compare, I wonder? Of course, I'm asking at precisely the wrong time, since Ernie has just gone out west for a while! I am interested only in an academic sense. Oh -- and is the Pintail design finally dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 I've been in versions of all three boats this summer (alawbach in thermoformed plastic, tiderace Xcite and Xplore and maelstrom Vaag). Both the Xcite and Vaag have very pronounced rocker, more so than the alaw. I never had the opportunity to paddle them on the same day, but memory has that the Xcite and the Vaag were incredibly maneuverable and yet stable, with the Alaw and the tiderace Xplore requiring more edge to turn. I had the Vaag in 4+ knot current, and I could pin the bow with a bow rudder on leaving the eddy and just ferry glide across with minimal strokes. Unfortunately never got the Xcite out in anything like that, though I've heard from Peter and others that it excels under those kinds of conditions. I really liked the Xcite, and it does remind me of the pintail, but chose a CetusMV as the next boat since I wanted something that could handle play and camping gear. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Oh -- and is the Pintail design finally dead? No, although VSK will apparently only build the newer design now (no more pre-'95 design boats). Pity, that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share Posted August 20, 2010 Thanks, Phil (again) and Brian, both. Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Aha! Thanks, Phil. So I was on the right track...What do we know about relative rocker among these designs? Are the Williams boats identical or merely similar? And how does the Maelstrom design compare, I wonder? Of course, I'm asking at precisely the wrong time, since Ernie has just gone out west for a while!Well, Christopher, I managed to borrow a computer here in Victoria BC.So far only a few rec boats sighted in placid touristy waters, but I hope to get further out this 350 mi long island for a real paddle if I can rent some appropriate gear.The Maelstrom kayaks (Vaag and even lower volume Vital) are designed by a couple of Montreal-based guys, one of whom is the 6'4" 240lb Charles-Alexandre Desjardins I've been communicating with re the design and especially to coerce them into replacing their crappy fragile foam seat. Thus the Vaag has a VERY long cockpit (required an L Snapdragon vs M for my Force5 and previous Cetus), so access and egress is wonderful, even with its smallish 4th hatch.I've only paddled the Vaag three times, and the Xcite once, so comparisons remain sketchy.The Vaag, both with its spongy foam seat and even my somewhat lower P&H seat, has only moderate primary, especially in confused chop. Certainly not a beginner's hull. Yet its remarkable secondary just seems to take care of me automatically in rock play, like the Cetus, but even more so as it accelerates more quickly, feeling lighter on its hull.Suz demonstrated at the Solstice paddle that the Vaag didn't seem to lean-turn easily. Indeed, it needs a push-stroke to get going. In that sense it has more of the obedience of the Impex Forces rather than the mind of its own Cetus.What surprises me is the acceleration of the Vaag. I just never expected a lower-volume highly rockered hull to get up to speed and glide so efficiently...and to track so well with appropriate skeg use. (To that end the Vaag's skeg is SO MUCH easier to use than the sticky pinch-and-pull P&H system, and has MORE effect than the Cetus', in that in strong gusts the Cetus' skeg becomes insufficient (it IS a high-volume hull, after all.) The Vaag's skeg passes a point where the effect is to reverse cocking direction! Thus it seems easy to dial in exact neutrality. The skeg uses a solid stainless rod, instead of the kink-sensitive multi-wire Impex system too.)What I remember of the Xcite is also a quick acceleration, but MAYBE a bit less glide, and certainly less skeg effect compared to the Vaag. However, the beauty of the Xcite's deck and its superb molded seat and backband system, flexing to meet the ramped cockpit coaming's angle is pure genius. It seems to be very highly evolved in both design and execution. I've been pleading with Maelstrom to copy its seat or at least install the Boreal Ellesmere/Baffin plastic seat sitting there at Boreal in the meantime, where the Maelstroms are made near Quebec City. So far Charles Alex has preferred his foam seat, which I'm sure his 110kg compresses differently than most mere mortal paddlers.I'll be back from Vancouver Island with a newly-backbanded Vaag in a couple of weeks or so, for anyone to try it out with the P&H seat system. If you want to try it with its original foam seat and foam backband I believe CRCK still has a demo unless they've sold off their rentals.Ellen's yelling at me to pay attention to her, as Mad Men's about to start. Sigh....Ern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Addendum: Although both the Vaag and Xcite have similar long cockpits with well-defined large thigh-hooks, they vary in that the Vaag's is already fully padded and a bit wider at the narrowest point (8"), allowing quicker access and egress than the Xcite's very narrow (6") knee passage. Thus the Xcite provides an almost ridiculous amount of thigh surface purchase, but I found it harder to get in and out notwithstanding the Vaag's central hatch's modest stalagtite. Note also that the smaller Vital's thigh hooks are REALLY low down, and thus appropriate for much smaller paddlers. I'm not sure how that compares to the Xcite S, the comparable baby sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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