ThomasL Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi, I'm new to the group as far as participation goes, but recently, following a paddle with my eldest son realized that getting active in the sport again is a must for me. This past Sunday took my 40 year rig out to Misery off Salem with my 32 year old son in tow. A borrowed 10 ft Target $250 Pelican he managed for the full day with some difficulty, but no complaints, or capsizes. I found no problem dealing with 6 hours on the water other than enduring the lost yardage while john bailed his Pelican. (told him he should have used the skirt!) In any case, I am now in the market for a seaworthy boat to make his and my other boy Mark's kayaking experience less demanding. Not interested in a high maintenance cedar strip showboat or any such extravagance. A decent rotomoulded plastic rig for $2K or less would fit the bill. I live close to REI and some of the rigs displayed appear there fit the bill. My concern is the relatively high profile exhibited by many current "sea" kayaks. My old cigar doesn't get blown around in the wind much. And, since I'm a fair weather paddler a little water in the face is not an issue. Any suggestions? Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Simple, look for a good used boat. Check Craigslist and the classifieds on paddling.net. You can get a great boat and save a lot of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hi, I'm new to the group as far as participation goes, but recently, following a paddle with my eldest son realized that getting active in the sport again is a must for me. This past Sunday took my 40 year rig out to Misery off Salem with my 32 year old son in tow. A borrowed 10 ft Target $250 Pelican he managed for the full day with some difficulty, but no complaints, or capsizes. I found no problem dealing with 6 hours on the water other than enduring the lost yardage while john bailed his Pelican. (told him he should have used the skirt!) In any case, I am now in the market for a seaworthy boat to make his and my other boy Mark's kayaking experience less demanding. Not interested in a high maintenance cedar strip showboat or any such extravagance. A decent rotomoulded plastic rig for $2K or less would fit the bill. I live close to REI and some of the rigs displayed appear there fit the bill. My concern is the relatively high profile exhibited by many current "sea" kayaks. My old cigar doesn't get blown around in the wind much. And, since I'm a fair weather paddler a little water in the face is not an issue. Any suggestions? Tom . Why don't you get yourself the better boat and let the "kids" use your old one rather than a borrowed Pelican? $2,000 is a good budget to buy yourself a good used boat, a new paddle, lifejacket and skirt all used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Looked at a Point 65 XO 16 Composite Kayak with Rudder at REI that fits my budget(just barely). Is this a good rig if I choose not to do the used search? It seems to have a lower profile than some I've seen. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Looked at a Point 65 XO 16 Composite Kayak with Rudder at REI that fits my budget(just barely). Is this a good rig if I choose not to do the used search? It seems to have a lower profile than some I've seen. Tom Tom, There are some truly excellent kayaks that are available used. Fiberglass boats hold up well overtime. You will also find that its not as painful when you decided that you rather have another model boat as used boats sell for about the same as you would have paid for it. Everything about a boat should be how it feels and responds to you on the water, looking at a boat in the show room isn't of much value. Go paddling with people and barrow their boats decided what boat your really like then look around for that model in good condition. Take the money you will have left over and get a nice PFD or a light paddle. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks for the advice Jason. I agree that fiberglass holds up. My Kayak is over 40 yrs old, and the hull of my soon to be refurbished canoe is about 47. It's taken some maintenance, but both still perform well. Now if I can just resist my desire for instant gratification I'll be able to find a good used boat! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwman53 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've upgraded from rec to fiberglass over the last three years. Agree that Craigslist is the second spot to check out, but The first thing is is to try boats out. Consider Charles River Kayak, in Newton MA and/ or ContoocooK River Kayak up in NH. They both have a large selection and you can test drive them free, on site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'd like to 2nd and 3rd the suggestion for a used kayak. If you have to ask which kayak you might want, you don't need to pay for a new one. You will get a MUCH better value in a used one. ...either a better kayak or a better price, or both.Craigslist, Charles River, Contoocook River are all great suggestions. I used all three.Cheers!Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I just looked at the Point 65 on rei.com. It may be worth noting that the singe review of that kayak is by a kayaker with limited knowledge: Because of its length, the rudder is essential for steering which is to be expected when you get into the longer 'yaks.I believe you'll find that NSPN has quite a number of VERY skilled and experienced kayakers. Though rudders do have their place, I doubt that any will backup the blanket claim that long kayaks need rudders. ...most of us prefer kayaks without. the seat is more difficult to adjust than advertisedThat really isn't a big deal. Many promote removing the stock seat/back and installing a foam seat or seat back that is not adjustable at all. getting in and out is hampered somewhat by the thigh braces.Those thigh braces are important safety gear any time you are paddling in other than bathtub flat conditions. They are an important feature to assist with controlling the boat and staying in it. ...again, consider a used boat. If you are serious about sea kayaking, your next purchase will be primarily a learning experience for what to buy next. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I agree on the need for a functional interior . My old glass boat simply has rudimentary thigh braces cemented to the inside of the hull a 1/2" closed cell pad cemented to the upper inside rear of the cockpit and a minicell pad to sit on. The minimalist seating allows for a very nice LOW center of gravity and is not uncomfortable. Some thin padding allows for bracing knees against deck when pushing hard. Also for my type of open water day touring a rudder just looks like something else to go wrong. I am looking at a boat with a retractable skeg in the rear quarter however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I agree on the need for a functional interior . My old glass boat simply has rudimentary thigh braces cemented to the inside of the hull a 1/2" closed cell pad cemented to the upper inside rear of the cockpit and a minicell pad to sit on. The minimalist seating allows for a very nice LOW center of gravity and is not uncomfortable. Some thin padding allows for bracing knees against deck when pushing hard. Also for my type of open water day touring a rudder just looks like something else to go wrong. I am looking at a boat with a retractable skeg in the rear quarter however. What is your 40 yr old kayak that you have? I second going to see boats at places you can actually demo them. What do you have for a paddle? Current thinking for paddle length has dropped dramatically in the last 10 years. Not sure what it was 40 years ago. Plan to spend some money on paddles too. Decent paddles range from $200 - 400 depending on material. Info added on the edit: BTW, without knowing your height, weight, no one can actually make any suggestions if a boat would be good for you or bad for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Overhill (well, apparently, you are <not>, since you are getting right back into kayaking!), why don't you give New England Small Craft a visit (Route 1 in Rowley, just a couple of hundred yards north of Market Basket): Joel Thomas has some amazing deals at present, prior to his moving premises next-door. For example, I know he has a rotomoulded P&H Capella for less than half your stated budget! There are still several other sea kayaks available as he moves more into the recreational arena... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Crouse Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 A suggestion for used boat shopping, make a list of the kayaks you would be happy with, then be patient and keep searching. In the past few years I've seen an Avocet for $900 and a Aquanaut for $1200, yes they were both fiberglass. It might take a while but there are some real deals on nice boats to be had.Good luck!Also the skills sessions used to be a great way to demo kayaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Thank You all for the advice and information. Your passion and involvement in kayaking far exceeds mine. My 1st taste involved a Foloboat I had shipped to my USN duty station on Guam in 68. Long into canoeing with some open water racing in the Great Lakes it was natural to head over the reef during my 18 month tour in the Pacific. Upon returning from my next tour in SE Asia I purchased a 16'' glass Foloboat (my current ride) for $286, shipping included. The glass work is bad, and the gel coat was a joke from day one, but the fact that it has held up this long indicates that form may in fact follow function. My most up to date paddle is an Adventure Tech ERGO T-4 small shaft 220cm which Mom gave me for Xmas(hence the small shaft). So far I have chosen to use my old wooden Foloboat "scoop" of the same 220cm length. The metal armored paddle that came with my two ply coral resistant 16 foot boat on Guam is 269.25 cm! Still works, but awkward.Even if I never find myself with you folks on the water, my association with NSPN has already been, and will continue to be a great experience. I very much value and appreciate your willingness to give of your knowledge and experience to an old guy who is beginning to feel a bit younger. I'll post a picture of whatever I purchase. I am much better able to make an informed purchase thanks to you. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Forgot to mention, Suz asked. I'm 5'9" at 184 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 At your height and weight, you will fit in many, many boats. Your have a good budget to get decently outfitted with a great used fiberglass boat. Just be picky and make sure it fits. Best way to do that is to try paddling some. NSPN members are big fans of British Sea Kayaks. My preference is for the P&H boats, others prefer Valley and still others who love Nigel Dennis' boats. Why don't you show up at one of the skills sessions with your current boat and ask members if you can try theirs out for a minute? You will get a better idea what works for you.Check in with the local shops to see what they have for used boats or demo models that they are looking to move on. You might get lucky. Once you decide on a couple that will fit, then you can look online until you find one that works for you. Just remember this, buy nothing that you haven't spent some time with on the water!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallen Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 If you live close to Charles River Canoe and Kayak, they also have a great season's pass rental program. That allows you to take any boat in their rental fleet out you want, anytime you want on the river. And they also have an option that includes a certain number of takeaway days where you can test the boat on the ocean (at least they used to). This is a great program because you can really take your time finding a boat that suits you. All of their rental boats go on sale at the end of the season too.Another good resource for finding a used boat is paddling.net. You've probably already checked out the classifieds board on the NSPN site-there are some good deals available right now, and I'll bet most of the members posting them would be willing to let you try the boats out on the water. Good luck with your search and let us know what you end up with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Crouse Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 At your height weight you're probably near the limit for this one but it shows that there are some deals. Yes it's in Mass.From paddling.net - impex currituck sun burst orange with yellow trim pictures available upon request. $1200.00 OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 At your height weight you're probably near the limit for this one but it shows that there are some deals. Yes it's in Mass. From paddling.net - impex currituck sun burst orange with yellow trim pictures available upon request. $1200.00 OB Actually, he's probably not. I'm about the same weight and height and the currituck was a great all around boat for me for many years. Some have issues with the width of the impex seats, but it fit me well. Similarly, if you'd prefer a more recent design, there's a Impex carbon/kevlar (light but strong) Force 4 that would fit well on our classifieds board. Phil ps: you're getting some excellent advice here, but be aware that some of us have some professional relationships with the manufacturers and distributors being mentioned. Doesn't diminish the quality of the advice, but thought you should know all the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well Guys and Gals, I made the purchase! Glad I listened and did not jump on the Point that looked so good on the rack at REI. This morning I drove over to Charles River and wandered about checking out the hulls. Suz had suggested P&H and I found myself drawn to a plastic Capella. It was not obviously for sale, and not being very impressed by the less than businesslike atmosphere I left with new knowledge of what is available after a 2nd tour of the inventory. Not anxious to make the trek to Concord NH I next visited New England Small Craft in Rowley. As soon as I walked in I had the feeling this was my place, and it was. Thanks for the suggestion Pintail. Anyway, the proprietor was outside so wandering to the back room I found an adequate assortment of sea boats. My eye kept going to a Quest on one of the horizontal racks. I looked at the purple Capella outside, and though I suspect it could have been had cheap...PURPLE!! Anyway I bought the 2005 Quest on the rack for a substantial discount within my budget. It was returned by a guy that bought it prior to joint replacement surgery intending to use it for post op therapy(that the story anyway), and put on tons of weight after the operation making the 16" cockpit width impossible. The boat is clean with no evidence of having been in the water. A few cosmetic scratches in the last few inches of the stern deck look easy to buff out. I did not try out the boat prior to purchasing it as you ALL suggested, but it looks like what is needed, and if Suz likes P&H I'm confident. I've already bugged both sons about a remake of the Misery trip. I think John is still healing. Thank You All very much, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Lord Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Tom:I too bought a Quest from NESC. I tried it first in a pond and it fit me like a glove, however, after I bought it I went on the ocean and found its initial stability to be horrible. I have made some alterrations to the boat that made it acceptable to me. I installed a dry bag containing 18 lbs of sand in the day hatch as ballast. Next I removed the seat and carved off some of the foam support pads from the bottom of the seat and put the seat back in the boat without fastening it in, letting it "float". This lowered the center of gravity and this, combined with the ballast, increased the initial stability considerably.The Quest was designed as an expedition boat and performs well fully loaded. She is fast and tracks well but has little rocker so does not turn easily unless you "edge" it. The ballast I carry makes edging more difficult.Overall I am happy with the boat but it is best used for long paddles or expeditions and not for rock play and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Tom: I too bought a Quest from NESC. I tried it first in a pond and it fit me like a glove, however, after I bought it I went on the ocean and found its initial stability to be horrible. I have made some alterrations to the boat that made it acceptable to me. I installed a dry bag containing 18 lbs of sand in the day hatch as ballast. Next I removed the seat and carved off some of the foam support pads from the bottom of the seat and put the seat back in the boat without fastening it in, letting it "float". This lowered the center of gravity and this, combined with the ballast, increased the initial stability considerably. The Quest was designed as an expedition boat and performs well fully loaded. She is fast and tracks well but has little rocker so does not turn easily unless you "edge" it. The ballast I carry makes edging more difficult. Overall I am happy with the boat but it is best used for long paddles or expeditions and not for rock play and such. I distinctly remember Bill's first trip in his Quest! It isn't the model I would have suggested for Tom nor for Bill but, c'est la vie. It is more of a "big boy's boat". Tom, tell us how your new boat does on it's maiden voyage. Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Crouse Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I'm bigger than you and I found the Quest to be very stable unloaded, in contrast I always found an Explorer to feel twitchy, and they're supposed to be stable and reassuring. When I paddled both I was probably 215lbs, and I'm 6'6". Just goes to show that individual milage may vary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Tom: I too bought a Quest from NESC. I tried it first in a pond and it fit me like a glove, however, after I bought it I went on the ocean and found its initial stability to be horrible. I have made some alterrations to the boat that made it acceptable to me. I installed a dry bag containing 18 lbs of sand in the day hatch as ballast. Next I removed the seat and carved off some of the foam support pads from the bottom of the seat and put the seat back in the boat without fastening it in, letting it "float". This lowered the center of gravity and this, combined with the ballast, increased the initial stability considerably. The Quest was designed as an expedition boat and performs well fully loaded. She is fast and tracks well but has little rocker so does not turn easily unless you "edge" it. The ballast I carry makes edging more difficult. Overall I am happy with the boat but it is best used for long paddles or expeditions and not for rock play and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasL Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Hi, Took the Quest out of Ipswich this morning and did notice some of the tendencies(turning,instability) when I took it outside the 1st thing. The thought that I would have not felt too comfortable in it on the choppy trip to Misery last week immediately entered my head, and I'm glad that I picked up a spray skirt for the boat. I'm used to a very stable, very dry glass boat produced for the Foloboat company by a white water kayak outfit. Just the same, after about 45 minutes in the mild seas I felt more confident in the Quest. It goes where it is pointed, and gets there quickly with minimum effort. Inside on flat water it is a joy effortlessly dealing with tidal currents etc and covers distance much faster than what I am used to. I will have to work on my turning and at one point I thought maybe rudder would have been a nice addition. The boat is longer than what I am used to. I am mostly a point A to point B kind of guy and enjoy the exercise and don't plan to do much "carving" or surfing, so I will adjust and think of the boat as a kind of thoroughbred. It is a classy ride, and two young ladies commented on how nice it looked at the beach.LOL A positive attribute in the eyes of a graying citizen! Thanks for the input guys. It is very good to have my impressions of the boat confirmed by folks in the know. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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