a few specific questions from a new guy; looking for advice

[mlevin77]

Hi everyone. My name is Mike, and am thrilled to have found this group. I have just been given an ocean kayak (a "Frenzy"), and have some basic questions as I'm excited to begin to have fun with it. I've been on a kayak once, on a guided level 2 whitewater trip in Oregon, so I'm a complete beginner. I live in Swampscott and my goal is to be able to get out from one of the Swampscott beachers, and go up and down the coast, perhaps checking out the few small islands right off-shore. I'd also be interested in a guided trip under the Zakim bridge and that area of the Charles. I'm not interested in racing or specifically seeking out dangerous/challenging conditions. So, with all that in mind, I would be grateful if someone who is familiar with this area can clue me in to the following:

1) is there any sort of website or other resource which I can check on a daily basis (before going out) to ascertain the condition of the water (rough seas vs. placid)? Do conditions change rapidly (what are the odds of being out in calm water and getting overturned by sudden waves)?

2) is there any sort of radio/beacon/other device I should have with me in case of an emergency? Is there anything that's useful and practical?

3) I've got a wetsuit which is sleeveless and stops right around my knee. I've got gloves and rubber booties. Is this enough for the waters around here or do I need something elsed? And should I be wearing anything in addition (under or over it) to avoid hyperthermia?

4) are there ocean currents out here to be aware of? That is, what are the odds of being dragged out too far? Does it matter if I'm going when the tide is incoming or outgoing?

5) and finally, what is the most appropriate next NSPN outing or class I should attend to gain basic experience with others in the waters around Swampscott/Marblehead?

Thanks in advance!

Mike

[Brian Nystrom]

Glad to have you aboard, Mike.

>1) is there any sort of website or other resource which I

>can check on a daily basis (before going out) to ascertain

>the condition of the water (rough seas vs. placid)?

NOAA's website (NOAA.gov) has marine weather info. Maineharbors.com is another good site. Perhaps others will chime in with additional sites. There are weather radio channels that you can tune into with the right equipment.

> Do conditions change rapidly (what are the odds of being out in

> calm water and getting overturned by sudden waves)?

It can happen, due to thunderstorms, boat wakes, rogue waves, bottom topography, etc. While I wouldn't worry excessively about it, you should be prepared with good bracing, rolling and self rescue skills. The ocean around here is nothing to trifle with, but since you're asking these questions, it appears you know that.

>2) is there any sort of radio/beacon/other device I should

>have with me in case of an emergency? Is there anything

>that's useful and practical?

A handheld marine VHF radio is the best tool to have for coastal paddling. It can put you in contact with the Coast Guard with a touch of a button. They also have weather radio capability with typically much better reception than inexpensive weather radios. I posted today about a deal on one of the better marine radios. Check it out.

>3) I've got a wetsuit which is sleeveless and stops right

>around my knee. I've got gloves and rubber booties. Is this

>enough for the waters around here or do I need something

>elsed? And should I be wearing anything in addition (under

>or over it) to avoid hyperthermia?

Perhaps a shorty Farmer John is OK in mid-late summer when the water is warmest and for use on lakes, but it's essentially useless most of the year. New England is dry suit country, as the water here is dangerously cold most of the year. I typically wear my dry suit 7-8 months of the year. IIRC, your kayak is a sit-on-top (aka "SOT"), right? That makes a difference, too, as it leaves you more exposed to the elements than in a sit-in kayak (aka "SINK").

>4) are there ocean currents out here to be aware of? That

>is, what are the odds of being dragged out too far? Does it

>matter if I'm going when the tide is incoming or outgoing?

It's not much of a problem unless you're trying to paddle into a narrow harbor inlet or a river mouth against an ebbing tide. There are some areas where current cause rough water. Your best bet is to ask about specific areas so someone with local knowledge can fill you in.

>5) and finally, what is the most appropriate next NSPN

>outing or class I should attend to gain basic experience

>with others in the waters around Swampscott/Marblehead?

You should plan on attending some of the skills sessions that are going on all summer. You'll learn the basics there and then some. Try some lower level (1-2) trips to get an idea of what they're about.

[scamlin]

Besides Brian's wise comments, I'd add a couple of suggestions and two small difference of opinion.

Besides NSPN practice sessions at lakes, you might consider a day or two of instruction at area outfitters. While we have many experienced paddlers in the club, the outfitters do it for a living and you can help you make a lot of progress in a day or two. One caution is that they may be oriented toward closed cockpit kayaks so check with them if you want to paddle your sit on top.

A couple of outfitters near Boston that historically have garnered good comments from NSPN members include: Charles River Canoe and Kayak in Newton and ERBA up in Essex. There are others in southern Maine, Buzzards Bay and Rhode Island. Look on the Links section of this website for more outfitters. Post back on the board if you see something you like and want to get advice.

By all means, go on Level 2 trips. They require minimal experience and you can learn a lot from just paddling with others. Besides the point is to have fun. Realize, however, that most but not all paddlers in the club paddle kayaks that are significantly longer than your Frenzy. It can be a suitable boat for the protected water that Level 2 trips typically take, but it may be slower than the longer boats. So discuss it with the trip leader to see if it will be an issue for the goals of the trip.

The vast majority of club members do not own a drysuit and paddle May to September with wetsuits. Brian is correct that New England waters stay cold most of the year, but his preference for drysuits is somewhat biased by his habit of being upside down in the water (strictly for fun). You will probably stay upright most of the time, so a wetsuit is insurance in case you capsize. If you capsize, you will get cold in a wetsuit but mostly likely safe from hypothermia. Brian is correct that paddling a sit on top means you are more exposed so you would likely want more protective clothing than in an enclosed kayak such as a wetsuit with long legs.

As an informal rule of thumb, on club trips we require drysuits if the water temperatures are under 50 degrees, full wetsuits and paddle jackets if the water is under 60 degrees, and shortie wetsuits or comparable protection for water in the 60s. Brian's comment is that New England ocean water north of Cape Cod is only above 60 in July and August. As a reference, the water temps off Marblehead today was 57 degrees.

To your current gear you should definitely add a paddle jacket and in colder weather wear polyester underwear under the 'shorty' wetsuit. If it gets windy and you get wet, you can get hypothermia even if it is summer. Don't forget a good hat, sunglasses and sunblock during the summer.

Also, don't forget to pack a full set of warm, dry clothing (fleece is best) as well as a full set of wind/rain gear to go over it. Don't forget a warm hat. Get a drybag to keep it in. If you ever capsize and get hypothermic, spare clothing is essential.

As for the radio, it can be a real lifesaver if you are in trouble. However, it does cost more than $200 and the majority in the club do not have one. I'd spend my dollars on more basic gear first, such as flares (Coast Guard requires them), a light (in case you stay out after dark), good protective gear (like a paddle jacket) and equipment you may need to do rescues. You certainly do not need a radio to be safe on the water.

And to get a little perspective, if you are plunking around on protected waters, the above may seem like overkill and can be. The more active paddlers in the club plead guilty to being gear crazy. The point, however, is that the next trip or the one after that you may go a little further and the weather may turn a little worse a little faster and soon you are in a situation where you wished you were prepared. We try to be very safety conscious in the club and it is good to develop the practice of carrying the essentials every trip. See the link for equipment on this website for more things to think about.

Enjoy the paddling!

Scott

[mlevin77]

Hi Brian -

>Glad to have you aboard, Mike.

thank you for the reply!

>NOAA's website (NOAA.gov) has marine weather info.

>Maineharbors.com is another good site.

I think I'm missing something - I scoured those sites and see weather and tide info, but nothing about rough vs. calm seas. Perhaps I just don't know the keyword to look for. What is that paramater (the "waviness") called officially?

>A handheld marine VHF radio is the best tool to have for

>coastal paddling. It can put you in contact with the Coast

>Guard with a touch of a button. They also have weather radio

>capability with typically much better reception than

>inexpensive weather radios. I posted today about a deal on

>one of the better marine radios. Check it out.

sounds great. I did a search on the Classifieds portion of this site but didn't find your ad. Can you give me a URL? Is something like this

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

"Midland NTVP1 Nautico 5 Watt 88 Channel VHF Marine Handheld Radio with NOAA Weather, Rechargeable Battery, Charger, AC Adaptor and Watertight Case" the kind of thing I'm looking for? Do I need a GPS also, to tell them where I am if I get in trouble or is it close enough to know where I am relative to the coast?

>>4) are there ocean currents out here to be aware of? That

>>is, what are the odds of being dragged out too far? Does it

>>matter if I'm going when the tide is incoming or outgoing?

>It's not much of a problem unless you're trying to paddle

>into a narrow harbor inlet or a river mouth against an

>ebbing tide. There are some areas where current cause rough

>water. Your best bet is to ask about specific areas so

>someone with local knowledge can fill you in.

ok. I plan to be in harbors in Swampscott, Marblehead, and Salem. Perhaps someone can clue me in; people keep telling me I'll be swept out to sea and I need to know if that's nonsense or can really happen (provided I don't go out in storms and stay reasonably close to the coast).

>>5) and finally, what is the most appropriate next NSPN

>>outing or class I should attend to gain basic experience

>>with others in the waters around Swampscott/Marblehead?

>You should plan on attending some of the skills sessions

>that are going on all summer. You'll learn the basics there

>and then some. Try some lower level (1-2) trips to get an

>idea of what they're about.

Great - thanks! What is the best way of finding a basic trip close to my location suitable for sit-on-top kayak skills on the local harbr? I see a bunch of lakes trips in the Upcoming Events calendar - is that it or should I be looking for an ocean one?

Thanks again!

Mike

[bob budd]

The URL

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/box/

displays a map of the coast. Click on an area on land and get the typical Mish Michaels (or pick your favourite weatherperson stalkee) report. Click on an are on the water and get the marine forecast showing expected winds and water. Try to look at the trends of the winds before and after you paddle for several reasons.

One is that things can change during the day and this gives you some warning of shifting winds. The last time we were out we followed a forecast of SW winds, heading into the wind for an easy return.

Another thing is that the forecasts will change over the course of a day and a week. This need not chasten you but serves to reinforce the dynamic nature of New England weather.

One advantage to a "SINK" boat is the option to dip into the water in a roll or to skull over on your side. This allows one to cool off and thus dress on the warm side, which I consider safest. This means making sure you have enough water, always good practice. There is a recent thread regarding dress that might give you further insight on dress.

P.S. - When Brian ends up inverted he always "says" its intentional.

[Brian Nystrom]

You've got a "thing" for Mish (or is it "Mich"?)! Does the missus know? ;-)

[Brian Nystrom]

>Hi Brian -

>

>>Glad to have you aboard, Mike.

>

> thank you for the reply!

>

>>NOAA's website (NOAA.gov) has marine weather info.

>>Maineharbors.com is another good site.

>

> I think I'm missing something - I scoured those sites and

>see weather and tide info, but nothing about rough vs. calm

>seas. Perhaps I just don't know the keyword to look for.

>What is that paramater (the "waviness") called officially?

"Sea state" and "wave height" are commonly used terms. You can get these from the NOAA marine forecast or buoy data. Typically, they're expressed similarly to "seas 2-3 feet" or "seas 3 feet every six seconds". The latter case gives you more information, as the closer the waves are together, the steeper they are. When the height and period numbers are close the same, watch out!

>>A handheld marine VHF radio is the best tool to have for

>>coastal paddling. It can put you in contact with the Coast

>>Guard with a touch of a button. They also have weather radio

>>capability with typically much better reception than

>>inexpensive weather radios. I posted today about a deal on

>>one of the better marine radios. Check it out.

>

> sounds great. I did a search on the Classifieds portion of

>this site but didn't find your ad.

It wasn't an ad. It's a few posts down on this page.

> Can you give me a URL? Is

>something like this

>

>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

>

>"Midland NTVP1 Nautico 5 Watt 88 Channel VHF Marine Handheld

>Radio with NOAA Weather, Rechargeable Battery, Charger, AC

>Adaptor and Watertight Case" the kind of thing I'm looking

>for? Do I need a GPS also, to tell them where I am if I get

>in trouble or is it close enough to know where I am relative

>to the coast?

That's the general idea, but I'd be VERY leery of any marine VHF that cheap. I strongly recommend submersible radios, as you don't need to keep them in a bag (that makes the radio more difficult to use) and they won't die if they get wet. Figure that it will cost you a minimum of $120 for one.

>>>4) are there ocean currents out here to be aware of? That

>>>is, what are the odds of being dragged out too far? Does it

>>>matter if I'm going when the tide is incoming or outgoing?

>

>>It's not much of a problem unless you're trying to paddle

>>into a narrow harbor inlet or a river mouth against an

>>ebbing tide. There are some areas where current cause rough

>>water. Your best bet is to ask about specific areas so

>>someone with local knowledge can fill you in.

>

> ok. I plan to be in harbors in Swampscott, Marblehead, and

>Salem. Perhaps someone can clue me in; people keep telling

>me I'll be swept out to sea and I need to know if that's

>nonsense or can really happen (provided I don't go out in

>storms and stay reasonably close to the coast).

Well, I can't say that it's absolute nonsense because it is possible, but let's look at the facts. There are literally thousands of kayakers on the New England Coast every year and the number that get into serious trouble can typically be counted on one hand. Many of them have little or no more experience than you do. Given that, the odds are pretty slim that you'll get swept out to sea, especially since you have the good sense to at least ask about the risks and seek the right information. The single most important safety "tool" you can have on the water is good judgement and you've definitely started on the right track to developing it.

>>>5) and finally, what is the most appropriate next NSPN

>>>outing or class I should attend to gain basic experience

>>>with others in the waters around Swampscott/Marblehead?

>

>>You should plan on attending some of the skills sessions

>>that are going on all summer. You'll learn the basics there

>>and then some. Try some lower level (1-2) trips to get an

>>idea of what they're about.

>

> Great - thanks! What is the best way of finding a basic

>trip close to my location suitable for sit-on-top kayak

>skills on the local harbr? I see a bunch of lakes trips in

>the Upcoming Events calendar - is that it or should I be

>looking for an ocean one?

Scott posted some excellent advise on this and other topics, so I won't rehash it. Get involved and have fun!

[JohnHuth]

Guys like Brian are the best experts, but let me add a couple items on conditions

1.) Learn to know what you can handle - remember that a wind blowing from land doesn't make very big waves, but wind that's had a long time to build up seas coming over some distance over water produces big waves.

2.) Shoals cause waves to break and heap up more (steeper) - having some idea of the underwater topography is a good idea.

3.) Current going against the wind produces big waves, current going with the wind tends to smooth them out.

4.) Beware of fog! Have a compass and always check your bearings back to land as you go out under all conditions - but in particular if you hear "patchy fog" in the forecast. Pay attention to wind direction as you go out - if it shifts around, that can be a sign of a storm approaching.

5.) Handheld VHF's can pick up the NOAA weather channel, with conditions in almost excruciating detail.

[rcohn]

You can also check some of the surf websites such as http://www.nesurf.com/Reports/index.php or http://www.wetsand.com/wavecast/wc-ec.asp?Referral=2. They have wave models and forecasts for the swells. Also, beach reports and a couple of online beach cams. Several of the buoys measure wave height and period, as well as water temperature and wind, but these are offshore costal conditions may differ. (see: http://www.maineharbors.com/ )

When the surfers are happy, I know the diving will be lousy and kayaking may be rough.

[mlevin77]

Thanks for the info everyone! I've invested in the recommended clothing, and am signing up for a Charles River Canoe and Kayak class (which will be held in Marblehead or Gloucester July 10th). A couple of final (for a while...) questions:

1) Does anyone have a pointer to an inexpensive submersible VHF radio, just in case? I still can't find the link to which Brian refered (I think he said he had a pointer to a deal on one such device).

2) is there a local (Swampscott) Marine supply store which might have the flare that people recommended?

Thanks, and hope to see you on the water.

Mike

[Brian Nystrom]

The radio link is in the thread called "Super deal on Icom M88 radios!" here on the General Message Board, but it's not an inexpensive radio, it's a GOOD one at a good price. Remember, you may have to depend on your radio for your safety at some point. IMO, radios are not a wise place to skimp on cost. However, there are other things like those Scott mentioned that should be higher on your priority list.

Flares are available at West Marine and other marine suppliers. Commercial fishing suppliers have them too. There should be several listings in the Yellow pages in your area.

[djlewis]

>Thanks for the info everyone! I've invested in the

>recommended clothing, and am signing up for a Charles River

>Canoe and Kayak class (which will be held in Marblehead or

>Gloucester July 10th).

Good move. And also keep going with NSPN. The combination of solid professional instruction and playing/learning with peers is the way to go, IMHO.

>1) Does anyone have a pointer to an inexpensive submersible

>VHF radio, just in case? I still can't find the link to

>which Brian refered (I think he said he had a pointer to a

>deal on one such device).

There are a ton of discussions on VHF radios on our message board. Here's one particularly useful one.

http://www.nspn.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboar...um=DCForumID3#1

Also, use the message board search function on "VHF", going back a year and includng the archives.

Not to contradict Brian -- our super-gearhead -- but you might take a look at the new, cheaper line of VHF's from Standard Horizon, the 260 and 270 I believe. The weakness of the Standard Horizon units (I've got one!) has been leaky mic and charging ports. But those new units don't have those potential leak points.

Basic radio features on all these models are about the same, and perfectly adequate for kayaking use. Battery technology (Li-ion, NiCad, NiMh, Alkaline, etc) is the major price differentiator in the high-quality, submersible handhelds. Li-ion is the high-end, since it lasts longer and holds a charge better when not in use, and works well in the cold. If you don't want to pay the extra $75-100 or so for that, then you start compromising in one way or another. That's a big subject which you can research in a number of places.

But to tell the truth, you might want to spend your money at this stage of your career on more basic things. Unless you plan to head offshore alone (definitely not recommended until your skill level is much higher, and even then, controversial) or in a small group, then you'll generally be in a group with more experienced paddlers, some of whom will have radios that do the trick for everybody.

Happy paddling! --David.

[bob budd]

>...you'll...be...with more experienced paddlers...

Carry your own safety equipment and never depend on others to provide said equipment for you. You could get separated in fog, something could happen that some of the group need to take someone to shore and you are left without the gear you depended on, etc.

[scamlin]

Mike:

The coast guard requires a minimum of three flares and they are therefore usually sold in sets of three. Plan on about $20 for a set.

Scott