small boats - 14 ' Wilderness Systems Tsunami w. rudder

[ssmith]

I would greatly appreciate opinions about limitations of small boats for ocean kayaking. Specifically, my friend is interested in a 14' Wilderness systems Tsunami with rudder. I have had leaders on AMC trips limit boats to 16' for ocean. In this months's Sea Kayaker, the Samba was favorably reviewed and it is only 13' something but nothing was really said about what limits there are for such a small boat. When I took a lesson with Carpe Diem, Mel said that a 15' boat was too small. Are there safety factors? Thanks very much, Sherry.

[brambor]

The Tsunami comes with bulkheads so emptying a boat during a rescue should be no problem. Looks like it can take a sprayskirt too.

The question is where do you want to go with the boat? It might not be ideal to paddle 10 miles with it to a remote island but for normal day hopping near shore it should be fine. If you plan to join NSPN trips with this boat you might have a hard time keeping up sometimes. At 14 feet it will be a slower boat than most of the other paddlers.

It retails for over $1200. You could buy better fiberglass boats on the used market for this kind of money.

I would greatly appreciate opinions about limitations of small boats for ocean kayaking. Specifically, my friend is interested in a 14' Wilderness systems Tsunami with rudder. I have had leaders on AMC trips limit boats to 16' for ocean. In this months's Sea Kayaker, the Samba was favorably reviewed and it is only 13' something but nothing was really said about what limits there are for such a small boat. When I took a lesson with Carpe Diem, Mel said that a 15' boat was too small. Are there safety factors? Thanks very much, Sherry.

[Phil Allen]

Sherry, if you aren't aware ahead of time, questions like these can raise some "interesting" discussions. Just so you're aware. That said, I'll give you my 0.0@$ worth. Understand that I'm really generalizing, and that many boats exist that don't have all these issues.

Boat length (and design) influences average paddling speed. For many paddlers, a 14 foot boat would make it just that much harder to keep up with the group. Other particularly strong paddlers could leave the group behind in a 14 foot boat. I think the bigger worry with "short" boats is often the lack of a sea-worthy design. Some shorter boats have bulkheads to provide flotation and storage, some don't. Also, many short boats have large cockpits, which can make keeping waves out of the boat difficult. There are notable exceptions, such as the Impex Mystic at 14', which has 2 bulkhead compartments and a relatively small cockpit that is used with a spray skirt to keep the ocean out.

The Tsunami 14 is a reasonably seaworthy boat. It does have two flotation/storage compartments, and a moderately large but not dis-functional cockpit. Surprisingly for a short boat, it has a lot of volume, generated from it's beam (~24" if I recall) and relatively high deck. That large volume doesn't make it appropriate for small (less than 130 lb) people in my opinion. It is definitely not a fast boat, so traveling distances wouldn't be it's strength. It does respond to normal paddler input, so the rudder isn't an absolute necessary to drive the thing if the paddlers knows how to turn the boat with body and blade.

Other options readily available as used boats that might also meet your friends needs are the Necky Chatham 16, Wilderness systems Tempest 165, and the Valley avocet. None of them come with rudders however.

Hope this helps.

Phil

[Suz]

Things to look for in a boat that makes it capable of handling open water conditions (such as experienced on the ocean or large lakes)

two bulkhead compartments or alternatively float bags secured inside

Full perimeter decklines to allow for ease of self and assisted rescues

Cockpit sizes that are proportionate to the paddler that it is sized for

Minimum of 5 points of contact - feet are 2, thighs/knee area are two more and bottom (some kayaks have more contact but a kayak with less would usually be too big for the person paddling to appropriately control the boat through edging)

Smaller cockpit opening to allow for a deck/skirt to be worn (this permits edging)

Hull designed so that it isn't flat that permits the boat to ride over waves without tipping over. (Think about crossing a steep wave broadside with a large flat bottomed kayak - the kayak generally tips over)

Note that boats with longer waterlines tend to be able to be paddled faster than those with shorter waterlines

All of the above are more easily found in boats that are longer than 16'.

Suz

[tyson]

I have paddled many miles in a 14' kayak, both light and heavily loaded. As others have said, the Tsunami has the needed bulkheads and can do it. However, there is a reason that I no longer paddle that boat. A wide beam may feel comforting at first, it results in the kayak being pitched more by rough seas. It is also harder to learn to roll. ...and finally, it is slower.

You asked for opinions and there are many to be had here. Mine is that I'd first suggest a used kayak. For anyone who is going to do a lot of kayaking, the first one they buy is certain to not be what they ultimately want. For anyone who isn't going to use the kayak a lot, there is no reason for a new one. Keep the initial cash out-lay down until your friend has more experience and can make a better informed choice.

Second, I'd suggest making certain that it is an appropriate size for the paddler. A boat that is too large will catch a lot of wind and can make life miserable, esp. for an inexperienced paddler.

Third, I'd suggest test paddling a wide range of kayaks before choosing one. This includes kayaks you think you might not like for one reason for an other. They may not be what you think. You should paddle significant distance and time in each. Though it is a lot of work for someone to bring an extra kayak to a paddle to let someone else try it, there are folks in this group who will do so from time to time. I came most grateful to those who have done so for me. For my 2nd boat, I wanted something fast (my 1st 14 footer was slow). After trying several kayaks generously offered, I ended up buying a pre-loved Anas Acuta which is known for being slow. ...yet it was still much faster than my 14 footer and had a feel and fun factor that I just couldn't live without.

Cheers!

Ty

[Michael_Crouse]

I'm going to make some generalizations but here goes....

A smaller person in a smaller kayak will be quicker than a small person in a kayak that is too big for them. By big I mean too wide, and long.

Their are several smaller/shorter kayaks that are perfectly suitable for the ocean. The P&H Vela, Impex Mystic or Montauk, the Mariner Coaster or Elan, Seda Ikkuma 15, etc... Their are a lot more smaller kayaks that should not be on the ocean.

[ssmith]

Thank you so much everyone, this has been most helpful. My friend was very appreciative after reading the replys and has decided to hold off on her perchase of a Tsunami and do further investigation. Sherry.

[Suz]

More thoughts....

short does not mean small

big does not mean wide

A boat can be small w/o being short and a short boat isn't usually small. A big boat is usually wide but it can be short too.

A big wide short boat would be a bad combination for a small person.

[Pintail]

Sherry, note, also, that the boat is not the <only> big outlay: count on buying as good a paddle as possible! There is all the difference in the world between using a cheap, utilitarian one and a good (perhaps carbonfibre) paddle.

The more expensive paddles are lightweight and will tire the paddler less. A good paddle is also balanced and is therefore a pleasure to use. I would expect to budget $300-400 for this item: a cheaper one may initially be used as a spare -- you'll find we nearly all carry a spare -- all of the time.

Similarly, trying to cut costs on the PFD will be a waste of time: it must be comfortable -- for hours on end.

So, try to think of all three items as one big necessity: boat, paddle and PFD. It <will> make life happier, in the long-run. Sea kayaking is one of those pastimes that seem to become (quite soon, in many cases) an addiction -- so you might as well prepare for that eventuality from the start!

[tyson]

The more expensive paddles are lightweight and will tire the paddler less. A good paddle is also balanced and is therefore a pleasure to use.

A really good paddle can be used to keep you warm and cook a fish when things get really bad.

[Phil Allen]

A really good paddle can be used to keep you warm and cook a fish when things get really bad.

Tyson, you know the fumes from burning carbon fiber aren't good for you, right?

Phil

[tyson]

Tyson, you know the fumes from burning carbon fiber aren't good for you, right?

Phil

[bob budd]

...The more expensive paddles are lightweight and will tire the paddler less...

I'd recommend you adopt classical methods and make a GP (Greenland Paddle) at home. With the money you save, you can invest in beer and veggie burgers.