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The other day, I discovered that the boiling hot drink in my stainless thermos had gone cold in just 3 hours.

I have 3 of these stainless thermos. I poured boiling water in all 3; then 2 of them became very hot on the exterior and soon the water cooled inside. The newest one stayed cold on the outside and hot inside.

The 2 failed thermos have no leaks between the inner and outer shells. They have all been exposed to the cargo area of a plane, but people carry them on their person to over 20,000 feet anyway. The 2 failed ones are the ones I've used for sea kayaking.

Do these things just go bad after a while. I guess I've always lost them or bent them before they could go bad.

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The only place where there is metal to metal contact is at the neck. I've found that if the flask is stored upright, it stays hot longer. If on its side, conduction bleeds heat to the outside of the flask, warming it to the touch while cooling its contents.

Beyond this, I've found that FULL stainless thermos flasks stay hot for over 24 hours, but partially full ones get cold within a few hours. Hmmmm, a case of Liliputian physics? Or something else?

Scott

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>Beyond this, I've found that FULL stainless thermos flasks

>stay hot for over 24 hours, but partially full ones get cold

>within a few hours. Hmmmm, a case of Liliputian physics?

>Or something else?

Hypothesis...

Partially full ==> sloshing ==> more circulation ==> bringing more hot liquid into contact with colder parts of flask (at the neck) ==> more efficient cooling (higher temperature differential at the neck) ==> cold beverage ???

Totally full ==> no circulation ==> the liquid develops an even gradient of temperature from the neck down ==> less efficient cooling ==> beverage stays hotter, except at the top.

How to test this? Fill a flask to the brim; leave it for a few hours; open and pour it carefully; see if the liquid at the top is noticably cooler than the liquid at the bottom, with a relatively steady gradient all the way down.

--David.

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>>Beyond this, I've found that FULL stainless thermos flasks

>>stay hot for over 24 hours, but partially full ones get cold

>>within a few hours. Hmmmm, a case of Liliputian physics?

>>Or something else?

>

>Hypothesis...

>

>Partially full ==> sloshing ==> more circulation ==>

>bringing more hot liquid into contact with colder parts of

>flask (at the neck) ==> more efficient cooling (higher

>temperature differential at the neck) ==> cold beverage ???

>

>Totally full ==> no circulation ==> the liquid develops an

>even gradient of temperature from the neck down ==> less

>efficient cooling ==> beverage stays hotter, except at the

>top.

>

>How to test this? Fill a flask to the brim; leave it for a

>few hours; open and pour it carefully; see if the liquid at

>the top is noticably cooler than the liquid at the bottom,

>with a relatively steady gradient all the way down.

Final answer????

After you try the above, try the experiment below.

You have a small ice cube (1"x1"x1") and a block of ice (one cubic foot).

Both are at the same temperature when you place them on a (your) counter.

For 1 point: Which one will reach room temperature first?

For 10 points: Why?

Hint: Hot or cold, the basic reason is the same.

Another puzzler:

A Thermos is really a very intelligent piece of apparatus that always performs correctly.

Without switches or settings, it automatically keeps the contents hot or cold!

When you put hot water in a Thermos it keeps the water hot.

With cold water it keeps the water cold.

How does it know?

Richard N

Living to learn.

Romany, White with Blue trim

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>On the same subject. Is there any difference between a

>$13.00 S.S. Vacuum Flask from Walmart and a $35.00 one from

>REI? I need to get one.

One is sold by a company that forces employees to work overtime and pays regular wage as well as using illegal immigrants to clean their stores at substandard wages. The other is sold by a company that donates a part of its profits to causes in defense of the environment. Check Campmor, REI Outlet(.com), etc. to find a better price and help me put Walmart out of business.

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You like your coffee hot. But you also like milk in your coffee. Problem is that after you buy your coffee, it's a 10 minute walk to the put in where you'll be drinking the coffee.

The question is: do you put the milk in the coffee at the store, or do you put the milk in a separate container and add it to the coffee at the put in? Which method gives you the hottest coffee?

Scott

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>How to test this? Fill a flask to the brim; leave it for a

>few hours; open and pour it carefully; see if the liquid at

>the top is noticably cooler than the liquid at the bottom,

>with a relatively steady gradient all the way down.

That won't work due to the natural circulation caused by temperature changes. As the liquid cools, it will naturally settle to the bottom and warmer liquid will rise to the top.

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>The other day, I discovered that the boiling hot drink in my

>stainless thermos had gone cold in just 3 hours.

>

>I have 3 of these stainless thermos. I poured boiling water

>in all 3; then 2 of them became very hot on the exterior and

>soon the water cooled inside. The newest one stayed cold on

>the outside and hot inside.

That indicates that either:

A) Two of them have lost vacuum and now have air between the walls, which conducts heat to the outside.

or

B) The inner an outer walls are not separated by enough space and heat is being radiated to the outer shell.

If the two bad bottles used to work OK, A is the obvious answer.

If they always cooled rapidly, B is probably the culprit. I've never seen this problem with the small, .5 liter bottles (~2.75" by 11.75", tapered), but I've seen it with a couple of the larger (.8 liter?) bottles that come with a black vinyl cover. I've even drawn a new vacuum in one of them in an effort to get it to work properly (yes, it's possible) and it didn't make any difference.

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Good point. OK, forget that test. But it still might be that circulation by sloshing is a lot more efficient than by temperature differential, and that's why a partially full container cools more rapidly.

Ah, there is still a test. Leave the partially full flask upright and quiet, and compare it to an equivalent partially full one that's subjected to acceleration forces of various kinds in the hatch of a moving kayak, and when handled. Or, just pick up the second flask every few minutes and shake it enought to cause sloshing.

--David.

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Another KISS test:

Three same size Thermos containers in good working order.

Heat some water to boiling.

Fill each Thermos half full of water.

Tightly seal one.

Lightly seal the second.

No cap on the third.

Let them stand undisturbed on the counter.

In 3 hours record the temperature of the water in each Thermos.

Any difference in the temp.?

Additional Info:

FYI: All brand name vacuum flask manufacturers (Zojirushi,Thermos, Nissan), have a 5 year warranty on the seal. Personally, although they may cost a few dollars more, I would only purchase a flask made by one of the above companies.

Richard N

Living to learn.

Romany, White with Blue trim

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ken, i have had similar experience in the last year -- actually with two different symptoms (one same as yours; one a matter of a leak in the stopper, allowing what i take to be contamination of the hot contents by the now-decaying liquid inside the stopper)

unfortunately the person best equipped to answer the question is not paddling with us anymore (ken condon, whose business is stainless medical instruments and appliances, etc). i remember discussing just this problem with him and ken telling me that the rim-weld between inner and outer steel barrels is a highly-technical and complicated manufacturing procedure, requiring great precision. this weld is the likely culprit: it needs only open up in however microscopic manner to release the vacuum and...bob's yer uncle: no more hot tea for your lunch on whatever remote island -- when you needed warming up!

i suggest a return to the store where you bought them: they are supposed to have a lifetime guarantee, no? i just changed one of mine with no questions asked...

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>This is one of the silliest threads yet, but...

Mark, 10 points for the right answer.

5 points for the reason.

Believe it or not.......someone has done research on the subject and has "brewed" up a very impressive "final answer".

Keeping Coffee Hot

An age-old question is finally resolved. Should cream be added to coffee upon purchase or right before consumption? The difference between these two thermodynamic alternatives could mean hotter coffee.

Jonathan Afilalo

Richard N

Living to learn.

Romany, White with Blue trim

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Bob, I'm with you. If enough of us tilt at these

"windmills", then maybe we CAN make a difference.

I hate "Wally-World" too. What a place. I bet Sam

is spinning in his grave.

Mike.

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