Interesting lessons learned

[Dee Hall]

During our self-rescue workshop last night we learned a few things:

1. If you are having difficulty getting onto your back deck during any type of rescue, it can be helpful to put extra water in your cockpit to lower the deck.

2. If you have a high volume boat or lower upper body strength, it is probably a good idea to make a stirrup and practice with it.

3. When doing a between-the-boats assisted rescue, bow-to-bow seems to work better for two reasons: the back deck is lower on most boats (ie. easier for the rescuee to use the rescuer's back deck), and the rescuer doesn't have to reach quite so far holding the boats together while there is a space between the boats at the rescuee (ie. the boats are touching near the bows and that is where the rescuer arms are.) The down sides are the rescuer is holding the boat and/or decklines instead of the coaming, and the rescuer is not facing the rescuee. Since I have an old injury to my thumbs, I found it more comfortable and stable to wrap one arm around the boat and hold a deckline in the other than hold the coaming. I also had no difficulty watching the rescuee while I lay chest-down on his deck.

[rick stoehrer]

was reading the part about the assisted rescue and wrapping the arm around the boat and then holding onto a deckline vs holding onto the coaming and was wondering if folks understood why when instructors teach this, they teach it the way they do and it involves the coaming and getting a truly secure grip? not that your way is in any way wrong, just that there are about a million ways to skin a cat (which is a gross expression, where the *^% did we ever get that one?) and another option in that grab...

still bow to bow but they differ in where the rescuer holds the boat. if rescuer leans way over and holds onto that coaming with a good grip, the boat is stable as is the rescuer since you now have an 18 foot outrigger. even in conditions this can be made pretty rock solid for the swimmer to re-enter the kayak. if rescuer wraps and arm around the boat (how long ARE your arms? we've met - it didn't seem like you had that much up your sleeve - ha!) and then secures the boat with other hand on a deckline it isn't as stable and certainly not in conditions as the boat will be pitching (or is it yawing?) and while the deckline offers a good hold in one direction, it offers nothing but a slammed knuckle or two in the other and the boat may rear up on that side and smack your hand. if it can smack a knuckle, it obviously won't offer much support to a struggling swimmer.

also, in conditions, staying out from between the 2 boats may be a better option than going between them as the swimmer (schwimma) may be pinched between a fully laden 'yak (rescuer) and their own craft.

again, not that the other way is wrong. the "rule" such as there is a rule, is swimmer in boat, water outta boat. quick as you please and how ever this is accomplished is really not that imprtant so lets not haggle on little stuff but just so folks understand the reasoning behind the coaming and then can make their own informed choices.

it's good that you found a way to work past the limitation of an inury! crafty devil.

just a thought on the coaming vs deckline is all.

mi dos centavos

[Dee Hall]

I truly believe that in theory one should be able to get a better grip on the coaming, yet I can never find a position that is secure and doesn't require inward pressure from my thumbs (which I just can't do without dislocation). Perhaps this is because my hands are so small.

Actually, the slammed knuckles aren't so bad. It hurts a heck of a lot less than the dislocated thumbs. I wrap my fingers around the deckline, but I am pushing down on the boat with my knuckles. The other arm was wrapped over the deck with my hand around the edge. I pushed down on the far side with my forearm and kept the boat from twisting away with my fingers. In reality, there were no decklines, only bungies and straps for the hatch. I had hold of the strap.

Oh, this guy was really struggling. The last rescue had been even more difficult with two people assisting. It was one of the most challenging rescues I have done, but it hurt a lot less than most. Usually my fingers are screaming in pain while trying to hold the coaming.

>also, in conditions, staying out from between the 2 boats

>may be a better option than going between them as the

>swimmer (schwimma) may be pinched between a fully laden 'yak

>(rescuer) and their own craft.

I agree. I think the only other way I was going to get this guy back in is with a stirrup which I didn't have with me and should probably practice using.

[Suz]

An alternative to using upper body strength to get into the boat or to using a stirrup (who would want to carry something extra?), is a method I learned at MIKCO. This is my preferred method of getting back into my boat if I come out. It is quick, easy and requires no effort.

Rescuer dumps boat if possible, sometimes in conditions it isn't posssible...

Line the two boats up as for a regular rescue, bow to stern...

The rescuer holds the boat firmly (don't let them present the boat to you on it's side, makes it harder to get in and fills the boat w/ water) and the schwimma grabs hold of EITHER their own boat lines or the rescuer's, doesn't matter which.

Floats your bottom up a bit and then they throw their outside leg into the cockpit, hooking their toe under the cockpit edge and using that as a lever, they can slip right into the cockpit on their belly (while slipping the other leg in to), flip over, put the skirt on and they are good to go.

If in breaking water, paddle with the boat full til outside the break where you can then empty the boat once rafted in quiet water.

Ok, EVERY time I do this, I am singing to myself Queen's Fat Bottomed Girls, but this works equally well for fat bottomed men:)

Suzanne

[Dee Hall]

When I demonstrated the paddle float rescue, I used the hook the foot in the cockpit method too. I agree that it helps a lot, and that the rescuer really has to hold on tight. My husband had never seen it before, so I guess it is more unusual that I had thought.

As far as this situation, however, I don't think that even with my flexibility, that I could have hooked my foot into the cockpit of his boat. There had to be 8 inches of freeboard.

[Joan_H]

>An alternative to using upper body strength to get into the

>boat or to using a stirrup (who would want to carry

>something extra?), is a method I learned at MIKCO. This is

>my preferred method of getting back into my boat if I come

>out. It is quick, easy and requires no effort.

>

>Rescuer dumps boat if possible, sometimes in conditions it

>isn't posssible...

>

>Line the two boats up as for a regular rescue, bow to

>stern...

>

>The rescuer holds the boat firmly (don't let them present

>the boat to you on it's side, makes it harder to get in and

>fills the boat w/ water) and the schwimma grabs hold of

>EITHER their own boat lines or the rescuer's, doesn't matter

>which.

>

Thanks Suz for the reminder, couldn't figure out why I couldn't get back in the other night as I have before. I was putting my inside leg in first rather than my outside and had no leverage. So much to remember!

>Floats your bottom up a bit and then they throw their

>outside leg into the cockpit, hooking their toe under the

>cockpit edge and using that as a lever, they can slip right

>into the cockpit on their belly (while slipping the other

>leg in to), flip over, put the skirt on and they are good to

>go.

>

>If in breaking water, paddle with the boat full til outside

>the break where you can then empty the boat once rafted in

>quiet water.

>

>Ok, EVERY time I do this, I am singing to myself Queen's Fat

>Bottomed Girls, but this works equally well for fat bottomed

>men:)

>

>Suzanne

[Dee Hall]

>>Floats your bottom up a bit and then they throw their

>>outside leg into the cockpit, hooking their toe under the

>>cockpit edge and using that as a lever, they can slip right

>>into the cockpit on their belly (while slipping the other

>>leg in to), flip over, put the skirt on and they are good to

>>go.

>

>Thanks Suz for the reminder, couldn't figure out why I

>couldn't get back in the other night as I have before. I

>was putting my inside leg in first rather than my outside

>and had no leverage. So much to remember!

>>

I'm afraid that would be my fault. I demonstrated with the inside leg. I've never tried with my outside leg. Hmmm.

[Guest guest]

Dee, There are a lot of ways to reenter a boat, but, we know that there are certain ways that work all the time. Because you have a limitation with regard to your thumbs is not to say that there is not something that you can do to counteract that limitation, that is all well and good. However, I have seen folks who don’t take the proven way of doing things seriously and as a consequence are practicing and conducting not-so-serious, considerate rescues. What will happen when circumstances are critical? Casual works for the casual paddler, but let’s have serious actions for the serious paddler. Coaming verus slick boat, deck lines, or bungies, no question.

Suz, I’ve practiced your method several times to see how it works and I agree that it does the trick (bow to stern) with no compromises.

[Dee Hall]

Ok. From now on I will leave the rescues and the message board postings to the serious paddlers. Bye bye! (To cheers heard `round the North Shore, I'm sure.)

[cathyfoley]

In the rescue where a paddled float self rescue was eventually abandoned and the swimmer very tired, we used a double rescue. One kayaker supporting the empty boat just like a t-rescue. The 2nd rescuer puts his/her bow alongside the stern of the empty kayak. The swimmer is then able to push down the bow of the 2nd rescue kayak below the surface and use it as a "stepstool" to easily propel themselves up onto the back deck of their kayak. We found with an exhausted swimmer, even this was a challenge, but we did effect the rescue using that method. Another mitigating circumstance was an ill-fitting PFD that rode up over the swimmers shoulders, making it difficult to climb onto the deck. It was a clear demonstration of the need for a proper fitting PFD. All in all, it was a very good learning experience for all involved.

[Brian Nystrom]

IMO, #1 and #2 are absolute last-ditch methods, as they both have many downsides. I would not use either unless there was no other way to get back into the boat. Frankly, it bothers me that these methods are suggested as a routine part of a rescue strategy, not specifically by you, but rather widely on the web.

As for #3, I probably use the between the boats rescue more than anyone else in the club (it's my prefered assisted method of getting back in my boat) and I have never had a problem doing it bow to stern. In practice, the rescuer's boat is really only used for leverage to get the rescuee up on their own aft deck. Discrepencies in height make little or no difference.

I really dislike the idea of performing ANY rescue with the rescuee behind your back. Aside from difficulties of visibility and communication (especially if the rescuer has limited flexibility), the rescuer cannot assist the rescuee in any way. It strikes me that this bow-bow between the boats idea is a solution in search of a problem and you won't see me doing it or teaching it.

[bob budd]

Noone is saying that the best approach to start with is not "performing ANY rescue with the rescuee behind your back" for "visibility and communication...the rescuer can assist the rescuee". However, it must be understood that there are always "about a million ways to skin a cat" and that it is incorrect to say "there are certain ways that work all the time".

There are a wide variety of paddlers in the club and otherwise on the water. Some simply cannot get back into their boat without assistance. Some can dump out the water in the boat and scramble in alone. Others require no more than a T rescue for a dry and stable boat to scramble into. For these situations bow-to-stern is quick and efficient. Yet that are those that require physical assistance as they (the rescuee) cannot scramble back into the boat alone due to body strength, flexibility, etc. One solution is to use a stirrup. Those who carry the short tow with what I call a "sheep shank" further shortening it to the length of contact tow can deploy it as a stirrup. Others find that an "outside leg into the cockpit, hooking their toe under the cockpit edge and using that as a lever" is enough to get back into the boat, whatever song they sing. As is often mentioned it is important to practice methods in appropriate conditions to know what simply won't work when the time comes to do it for real.

At least one posting in this thread seemed to take those who "found a way to work past the limitation" to mean "folks don’t take the proven way of doing things seriously". In fact we all have limitations, rescuer and rescuee, and need to find methods that work for us.

[eneumeier]

Sorry to be late jumping into this discussion, but I have been away and am just catching up with reading this message board.

>There are a lot of ways to reenter a boat, but, we

>know that there are certain ways that work all the time.

NOT.

Rick, I beg to differ. There are no ways that work all the time. What works is very dependent on the rescuee and rescuer, the conditions, the kayaks, and many other factors. Whenever I watch you demonstrate getting back in your kayak using a classic T rescue with such tremendous ease and grace I think "yeah right, nice for you." My Viviane has a VERY high back deck. I have what Alex refers to as lots of "natural flotation" up top which causes my pfd to snag on it. You simply will not see me slithering up on Viviane like a seal.

Reading this thread prompted me to go to my bookshelf for "Sea Kayak Rescue: The Definitive Guide to Modern Reentry and Recovery Techniques" by Roger Schuman and Jan Shriner. Although described as "definitive" in the subtitle, the authors ask for people to send in suggestions so they can keep the guide up to date as "techniques evolve." (I hope that those experimenting with new techniques will continue to post their lessons learned on this message board so NSPN's learning and techniques can also. Dee, Cathy, etc., please heed.)

Schumann/Shriner have a chapter on "Rescues for Special Circumstances" in the intro to which they say

"This chapter deals with strategies for handling situations that are beyond the norm -- those that involve tired or incapacitated swimmers, rough seas, sinking boats, and any number of complications. We laughed when we wrote that last sentence because our normal rescue scenarios are often 'beyond the norm'."

They describe a "real life rescue" under the Golden Gate Bridge, in which a sling was the solution to a large man, tired at the end of a strenous paddle, being able to get back in his kayak. They describe lots of ways to rig and use slings.

For people who don't want to carry another piece of equipment: you don't have to. You can use your short contact tow if it is rigged correctly.

>Because you have a limitation with regard to your thumbs is

>not to say that there is not something that you can do to

>counteract that limitation, that is all well and good.

>However, I have seen folks who don’t take the proven way of

>doing things seriously and as a consequence are practicing

>and conducting not-so-serious, considerate rescues. What

>will happen when circumstances are critical? Casual works

>for the casual paddler, but let’s have serious actions for

>the serious paddler. Combing verus slick boat, deck lines,

>or bungies, no question.

I've observed just the opposite: "serious" paddlers so intent on doing things the "proven way" that they do not recognize quickly that the person they are trying to rescue simply cannot do what they are asking. Telling such a "victim" to try again, try again, can demoralize the victim, who IS trying as hard as he or she can, while wasting valuable time and energy. In such circumstances, whipping out a sling (or stirrup) to get the victim in the kayak can be the better option. A serious rescue is any type that works.

IMHO everyone should start learning with the classic solo and assisted rescues. From there, each paddler should figure out what works best for him/her: as the "victim" and the rescuer. Brian has found that the between the boats works for him and Suz has her technique. That's great. Dee has figured out a way to hold onto the victim's kayak, despite her gimpy thumbs. That's great too.

Might there be a circumstance when I need to get someone back in a kayak NOW, even though our boats are bow-to-bow? I practice putting my kayak on edge to move it into a bow-stern position, but that does take a few seconds. I think I'll try a few practice rescues, bow-to-bow, to see how it feels and if I can do it so I'll be prepared for that, just in case. It may add one more tool to my toolkit that I will hopefully never need to use.

> Suz, I’ve practiced your method several times to see how it

>works and I agree that it does the trick (bow to stern) with

>no compromises.

But you are SUPPOSED to swim your legs to the surface and kick yourself onto the back deck. It is proven. It always works. Just kidding. :-))

Suz: Queen's "Fat Bottomed Girls" was dedicated to those of us who carry our own balast and hence can paddle tippy boats with relative ease. Did you know?

Liz N.

[binks]

>>for the casual paddler, but let’s have serious actions for

>>the serious paddler. Combing verus slick boat, deck lines,

>>or bungies, no question.

> Dee has figured out a way to hold onto the victim's kayak, despite

>her gimpy thumbs. That's great too.

>

I think the point was, Dee's rescue may have worked on a flat pond, but an attempt to use it in wave is likely to have not only resulted in a failed rescue, but also the rescuer being injured.

Posting an idea is great, but letting a bad or flawed idea go uncorrected or unqualified would be irresponsible.

Binks

[eneumeier]

>Posting an idea is great, but letting a bad or flawed idea

>go uncorrected or unqualified would be irresponsible.

Right. We should have a discussion about the pros and cons, and when one thing works and another does not.

I want to emphasize that even people who cannot do rescues in the optimal way, e.g. holding the coaming, swimming onto the back deck, etc., should try to figure out a way to make a rescue work. They should persevere and practice as many different things as they or anyone else can think of.

In this example, which is only one of many, since she has tried so many different things, Dee now knows what her best option is. In really rough water, it probably will be more risky. So, if there is someone else around who can hold on to the cockpit coaming, letting them do that rescue might be Dee's best option. If it is only her out there, at least she has figured out how far she can go.

Liz N.