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Rescue variations


scamlin

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You'll certainly find out if your Romany has any voids in the deck!

Looks okay, but I have chipped my coaming enough doing regular t rescues (dumping part) that I would be concerned about cracking the coaming or seperating it from the deck. A well done T rescue solid enough that I am not sure you would need to resort to a more stable method. Maybe one of the five star paddlers can comment on conditions getting to the point where a regular t wont work, but I am not sure I would want to risk breaking a boat in those conditions. Having broken boats enough times in lesser conditions I can say that it never made the situation better.

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You'll certainly find out if your Romany has any voids in the deck!

Looks okay, but I have chipped my coaming enough doing regular t rescues (dumping part) that I would be concerned about cracking the coaming or seperating it from the deck. A well done T rescue solid enough that I am not sure you would need to resort to a more stable method. Maybe one of the five star paddlers can comment on conditions getting to the point where a regular t wont work, but I am not sure I would want to risk breaking a boat in those conditions. Having broken boats enough times in lesser conditions I can say that it never made the situation better.

I agree with John and would like to make one specific observation. If the victim's boat is hit by a wave at the stern, it is quite likely that it's going to swing one way or the other, creating a "scissors" action that will be very difficult for the rescuer to control. The likelihood of the rescuer getting whacked by the bow or having the boat torn from his/her grasp seem very high. Given this - and the fact that a standard side-by-side arrangement is very stable and generally controllable - I can't see any reason to use the ladder method in conditions.

Additionally, when holding the boat at the (narrow) bow, the deck lines are quite close together, which reduces the leverage that the rescuer has to control the boat and prevent it from twisting as the paddler climbs up and in. In rough water, especially with an inexperienced "victim", it could be difficult for them to get in without the boat twisting and capsizing.

All in all, it seems to me that this rescue technique is a "solution in search of a problem". I'll try it out on the water to see if there is some significant benefit that I can't see from my desk, but I'm skeptical.

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I agree with John and would like to make one specific observation. If the victim's boat is hit by a wave at the stern, it is quite likely that it's going to swing one way or the other, creating a "scissors" action that will be very difficult for the rescuer to control. The likelihood of the rescuer getting whacked by the bow or having the boat torn from his/her grasp seem very high. Given this - and the fact that a standard side-by-side arrangement is very stable and generally controllable - I can't see any reason to use the ladder method in conditions.

Additionally, when holding the boat at the (narrow) bow, the deck lines are quite close together, which reduces the leverage that the rescuer has to control the boat and prevent it from twisting as the paddler climbs up and in. In rough water, especially with an inexperienced "victim", it could be difficult for them to get in without the boat twisting and capsizing.

All in all, it seems to me that this rescue technique is a "solution in search of a problem". I'll try it out on the water to see if there is some significant benefit that I can't see from my desk, but I'm skeptical.

So here is my 2 cents as a 4* paddler & a L3 aspirant. Observing the video on the ladder rescue I have several issues. The rescuer demonstrates no body rotation, though he must have some experience since he did use a draw to get to the victims boat. He lifted the victims boat with his back to drain the water. Lastly, @ the end of the rescue both boats were pointed in the same direction which makes it almost impossible for the rescuer to help the victim with the spray skirt, paddle or anything else. I have done T rescues in much rougher water & have had to lay right over & drape myself on the victims boat just to prevent us both from capsizing. In these conditions, I'm not sure the ladder would work. I would also be concerned w/ boat damage. In all fairness I have friends who say this is a great rescue but I have never tried it. But I'm just sayin'.

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Risingsun, I do not know what you mean by "ladder": please explain. I have never seen that terminology used in this context before.

Regarding the video, I cannot comment on <why> I do not like it, since I have never tried it or even seen it done before; but suffice it to say that I do not much like <the look> of it. Why risk your back when a simple eskimo rescue from the side is so much simpler? <IF> the capsizing paddler <knows> there is assistance close by, then there is little to beat an eskimo rescue, in my opinion; but in this video <how> does the rescuer, for instance, know that the capsized paddler is not already getting out of his or her boat? This particular "victim" gave no indication or signal, thus making it look like the rescuer took the initiative on himself -- fine, initiative is <needed>, yes; but I think a "hand of god" rescue will be far more effective in rough water if paddler is still underwater and incapacitated -- and eskimo rescue better for other applications...(this latter can be <so> quickly accomplished!)

If "victim" is, indeed, out of the boat, then a regular T-rescue will be performed. This rescue cannot replace it?

See what I am driving at? These are tried and tested rescue methods -- I prefer to stick with what I am familiar with.

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Risingsun, I apologise: I see that ladder rescue (sic) is mentioned in the text, although I still do not understand it and cannot find it -- only the video of the "bow roll rescue".

I do agree with Mr. Nystrom at first consideration and shall await his trial. Do not attach too much significance to Mr. Leonard's observation regarding breaking the combing -- he can break <ANY> boat when trying hard enough -- it's his stock-in-trade, in fact! :D

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Risingsun, I apologise: I see that ladder rescue (sic) is mentioned in the text, although I still do not understand it and cannot find it -- only the video of the "bow roll rescue".

I do agree with Mr. Nystrom at first consideration and shall await his trial. Do not attach too much significance to Mr. Leonard's observation regarding breaking the combing -- he can break <ANY> boat when trying hard enough -- it's his stock-in-trade, in fact! :D

Chris,

If you look below the video window you'll see the link to the ladder rescue video.

Video Ladder Style Assisted Rescue for Sea Kayak

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Christopher, can I borrow your Nordkapp? :P

I have seen two coamings cracked and pulled off the deck badly enough to cause significant leaking. Neither one was caused by particularly rough handling. Cracking and chipping on the edges seams to be pretty common with routine paddling and rescue practice.

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<Christopher, can I borrow your Nordkapp?>

In a word: no!

(Destroyer of fibreglass, you! Note to other readers: there have been <two> occasions on which I have wished for a camera -- well, I had one, one time; but it was jammed behind my backrest -- and <both> occasions involved the infamous Mr. Leonard and rocky places -- enough said!)

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I agree with most of the comments so far. I don't see any particular advantage to either of the two rescues over simple Eskimo rescue or T or even side by side assisted rescue. Which brings me to a point. The rescue which depends on the knowledge and behavior of the rescuer is inherently faster and safer than one that requires knowledge, skill and cooperation of the swimmer. That is why in dealing with the rescue of a novice a simple side to side may be preferred. Yes, water is in the cockpit but the rescuer has stabilized the boat and only need direct the swimmer to swim up on the rear deck and swing his legs into the cockpit facing in the prone position. Even if the swimmer hasn't practiced this and doesn't keep his center of gravity low, the rescuer can compensate by more pressure on the swimmers boat. The boat filled with water is marginally lower in the water which makes mounting the rear deck a bit easier. The rescuer of course continues to stabilize until the swimmer has pumped out his cockpit. Psychologically, the novice swimmer may be more traumatized in cold and heavy seas by being directed to move to the stern of his boat to help with the T rescue. If neither boat has a pump then of course do a T rescue. Now here's a self-rescue technique for a swimmer alone. Move to the stern, fill up your paddle float and stick it under your left arm pit. Raise the stern with your right to dump the water and twist the boat upright. Follow up with paddle float or cowboy re entry.

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This ladder rescue looks like a stabilized cowboy rescue and not something brand new.

It also seemed that most of the wight was not on the rescuers boat as only the 1st 1/3 of the boat was on the rescuers deck. (I guess I don't worry about chipping my boat enough).

That said many people can't do a cowboy, the victim is far from the rescuers control. A standard T rescue would have given the rescuer more control over the situation.

-Jason
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I agree with most of the comments so far. I don't see any particular advantage to either of the two rescues over simple Eskimo rescue or T or even side by side assisted rescue. Which brings me to a point. The rescue which depends on the knowledge and behavior of the rescuer is inherently faster and safer than one that requires knowledge, skill and cooperation of the swimmer. That is why in dealing with the rescue of a novice a simple side to side may be preferred. Yes, water is in the cockpit but the rescuer has stabilized the boat and only need direct the swimmer to swim up on the rear deck and swing his legs into the cockpit facing in the prone position. Even if the swimmer hasn't practiced this and doesn't keep his center of gravity low, the rescuer can compensate by more pressure on the swimmers boat. The boat filled with water is marginally lower in the water which makes mounting the rear deck a bit easier. The rescuer of course continues to stabilize until the swimmer has pumped out his cockpit. Psychologically, the novice swimmer may be more traumatized in cold and heavy seas by being directed to move to the stern of his boat to help with the T rescue. If neither boat has a pump then of course do a T rescue. Now here's a self-rescue technique for a swimmer alone. Move to the stern, fill up your paddle float and stick it under your left arm pit. Raise the stern with your right to dump the water and twist the boat upright. Follow up with paddle float or cowboy re entry.

With all due respect, Gene, I think you might want to rethink how you're emptying that kayak. I've found in my limited experience that raising the BOW of the boat to dump the water and then flipping it over works just a wee bit better.

You can also prevent the "novice swimmer (from being) more traumatized in cold and heavy seas" by:

1.) Not having the novice paddler out there in such conditions in the first place, unless its totally unintended.

2.) I think, or at least the way I've been taught lately, that the swimmer is now usually at the side of the rescuer's boat and not assisting the rescuer except perhaps to flip their capsized kayak over. The present procedure is to have the rescuee come to the side of the rescuer's boat (and out of the way of kayaks, runaway paddles etc, etc) while said rescuer brings the kayak over theirs, empties it, and then gets the swimmer back into it any way possible. By having the swimmer next to you, you can keep an eye on her or him and thus reduce their trauma.

Just some suggestions for the coming paddling season.

Deb M

:roll::surf:

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With all due respect, Gene, I think you might want to rethink how you're emptying that kayak. I've found in my limited experience that raising the BOW of the boat to dump the water and then flipping it over works just a wee bit better.

You can also prevent the "novice swimmer (from being) more traumatized in cold and heavy seas" by:

1.) Not having the novice paddler out there in such conditions in the first place, unless its totally unintended.

2.) I think, or at least the way I've been taught lately, that the swimmer is now usually at the side of the rescuer's boat and not assisting the rescuer except perhaps to flip their capsized kayak over. The present procedure is to have the rescuee come to the side of the rescuer's boat (and out of the way of kayaks, runaway paddles etc, etc) while said rescuer brings the kayak over theirs, empties it, and then gets the swimmer back into it any way possible. By having the swimmer next to you, you can keep an eye on her or him and thus reduce their trauma.

Just some suggestions for the coming paddling season.

Deb M

:roll::surf:

ha! is john leonard cautioning against boat damage? NOW, i've heard it all!

fwiw, i agree with you john, i think you could beat the crap outta yer boat doing that but eh...i can't throw that stone either and sometimes you gotta get a job done....not the way i'd choose but whatever...get the guy outta the water and in his boat.

gene, i think you meant lift from the bow as opposed to the stern....lift from the stern and you'll just move water around in your cockpit and it won't drain.

and for keeping the swimmer besides my boat...yeeeeaaaaahhhh....i know that seems to be the de riguer standard these days but for me....you as the swimmer can just keep your hands offa my boat, thanks. if we're in some bumpy water, the last place i want you hanging onto is MY boat....you can cling to your boat thanks and we'll sort it out. maybe i'll like it when/if i try it but i think it's going to take awhile still for me to warm up to that one!

spring soon!

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ha! is john leonard cautioning against boat damage? NOW, i've heard it all!

fwiw, i agree with you john, i think you could beat the crap outta yer boat doing that but eh...i can't throw that stone either and sometimes you gotta get a job done....not the way i'd choose but whatever...get the guy outta the water and in his boat.

gene, i think you meant lift from the bow as opposed to the stern....lift from the stern and you'll just move water around in your cockpit and it won't drain.

and for keeping the swimmer besides my boat...yeeeeaaaaahhhh....i know that seems to be the de riguer standard these days but for me....you as the swimmer can just keep your hands offa my boat, thanks. if we're in some bumpy water, the last place i want you hanging onto is MY boat....you can cling to your boat thanks and we'll sort it out. maybe i'll like it when/if i try it but i think it's going to take awhile still for me to warm up to that one!

spring soon!

None of this puts a dent in the simple fact that that the T-rescue is the coin of the realm in man- overboard scenarios. Swimmer is back in their boat fast, with a dry cockpit, under all sorts of conditions : even in pretty damn big seas, two boats in a Tee is a pretty secure configuration. So tried and true, in fact, that I'd prefer doing a tee-rescue to pumping out a boat after a re-enter and roll. It's quicker and easier, and as Mr. Maynard once said, "kayaking is a lazy sport."

Sometimes, tried -and -true (in this case, the t-rescue) just plain works.

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and for keeping the swimmer besides my boat...yeeeeaaaaahhhh....i know that seems to be the de riguer standard these days but for me....you as the swimmer can just keep your hands offa my boat, thanks. if we're in some bumpy water, the last place i want you hanging onto is MY boat....you can cling to your boat thanks and we'll sort it out. maybe i'll like it when/if i try it but i think it's going to take awhile still for me to warm up to that one!

spring soon!

I don't bring the swimmer over to my boat until I have got ahold of their boat. At that point, I feel pretty secure letting them hang on to me. It's a good place for the swimmer to be, you can keep an eye on him, help him, and there is less chance of him getting knocked about in conditions. Give it a try.

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With all due respect, Gene, I think you might want to rethink how you're emptying that kayak. I've found in my limited experience that raising the BOW of the boat to dump the water and then flipping it over works just a wee bit better.

You can also prevent the "novice swimmer (from being) more traumatized in cold and heavy seas" by:

1.) Not having the novice paddler out there in such conditions in the first place, unless its totally unintended.

2.) I think, or at least the way I've been taught lately, that the swimmer is now usually at the side of the rescuer's boat and not assisting the rescuer except perhaps to flip their capsized kayak over. The present procedure is to have the rescuee come to the side of the rescuer's boat (and out of the way of kayaks, runaway paddles etc, etc) while said rescuer brings the kayak over theirs, empties it, and then gets the swimmer back into it any way possible. By having the swimmer next to you, you can keep an eye on her or him and thus reduce their trauma.

Just some suggestions for the coming paddling season.

Deb M

:roll::surf:

You are right Deb, lift the bow not the stern!

I think that what with doing my taxes, fretting over the Market and being out of the water since last November I don't know my head from my teakettle. When is it going to warm up? Maybe this year at practice sessions some of us might simulate the novice paddler who's panicked and grabbed onto the rescuer's boat. What to do? I'll volunteer if you promise not to bash me with your paddle.

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I saw this rescue someplace last season. We played with it a bit at a few "Pond Sessions" last summer.

My observations...

#1 was potential boat and spray skirt damage. Not as bad on the skirt on my ocean cockpit but it requires care.

I found less experienced paddlers had a real hard time with it. The less rescue experience the harder time they had. For those standatd T worked better.

You'll notice the aft deck of the swimmers boat is tidy and clean. Those that carried excess gear on deck had a real hard time moving up the ladder so to speak. Paddle blades getting in the way, pumps etc. I only carry my spare paddle on the aft deck and was able to do the move. Add a pump and it woudl be a real pain.

Also, i'm not a fan of ruddered boats, but i think you'd donate blood if attempted on a ruddered boat.

It might have its place. For me, being of shorter stature, i found it hard to stabalize the boat with larger paddlers and find a fast T just as effective for me.

And yea, i had to chuckle with Mr. Leonad's concens about boat damage !! Ahh i guess with age comes wisdom eh John...

Ice is almost out here....

Ken

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Risingsun, I do not know what you mean by "ladder": please explain. I have never seen that terminology used in this context before.

Regarding the video, I cannot comment on <why> I do not like it, since I have never tried it or even seen it done before; but suffice it to say that I do not much like <the look> of it. Why risk your back when a simple eskimo rescue from the side is so much simpler? <IF> the capsizing paddler <knows> there is assistance close by, then there is little to beat an eskimo rescue, in my opinion; but in this video <how> does the rescuer, for instance, know that the capsized paddler is not already getting out of his or her boat? This particular "victim" gave no indication or signal, thus making it look like the rescuer took the initiative on himself -- fine, initiative is <needed>, yes; but I think a "hand of god" rescue will be far more effective in rough water if paddler is still underwater and incapacitated -- and eskimo rescue better for other applications...(this latter can be <so> quickly accomplished!)

If "victim" is, indeed, out of the boat, then a regular T-rescue will be performed. This rescue cannot replace it?

See what I am driving at? These are tried and tested rescue methods -- I prefer to stick with what I am familiar with.

Check the first post, that's what it is called.

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Gene,

<...fretting over the Market...I don't know my head from my teakettle...>

Don't fret, friend: it's not worth the emotional (or is it <nervous>?) energy!

What is a teakettle, pray tell? I thought you lot had given up tea since 1773? (Hence the Au Bon Pain or a Starbucks on every city street corner!)

<We> heat the water in a plain <kettle> and then make the tea in a <teapot> -- I guess I shouldn't expect too much from such neo-colonials? (Well New Englanders seem to be total Anglophiles?) ;^ )

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Gene,

<...fretting over the Market...I don't know my head from my teakettle...>

Don't fret, friend: it's not worth the emotional (or is it <nervous>?) energy!

What is a teakettle, pray tell? I thought you lot had given up tea since 1773? (Hence the Au Bon Pain or a Starbucks on every city street corner!)

<We> heat the water in a plain <kettle> and then make the tea in a <teapot> -- I guess I shouldn't expect too much from such neo-colonials? (Well New Englanders seem to be total Anglophiles?) ;^ )

Hi Chris-Check this out! Must be our neo-colonial ingenuity!

http://coffeetea.about.com/od/teaware/gr/utilitea.htm

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