PFD Knife Part 2

[leong]

In response to several questions in the Knives on PFD post:

This is the knife I use.

https://www.shop.pacificriversupply.com/dis...74&categoryId=3

It won't come loose during rescue training. I think NESC still sells it.

>The knife sure came in handy ... I used it to cut a hole in the sprayskirt to

>extricate myself.

>>I think sea snips would have done the job. You'd have to pinch the skirt to make a small pouch of fabric, cut that off with the snips, and then use the resulting hole to finish the cutting.

Try pinching a tight neoprene skirt while upside down and starving for a breath of air.

>>And the dangers of a knife on the pfd are well documented. John Carmody relates the tale of a friend doing a rescue on a panicked novice who gave him a bear hug that dislodged his knife. In the ensuing struggle, the knife blade grazed his throat.

It's not a problem with my knife. It can't come lose without squeezing the release mechanism.

[Kevin B (RPS Coach)]

Hmm, after all this back and forth about knives, I think I've decided to just use my kitchen butane torch. It won't fall out of its sheath and I can't cut myself with it. I may not have any eyebrows left are using it in conditions, but I can make creme brulee on the beach afterwards

[EEL]

>Hmm, after all this back and forth about knives, I think

>I've decided to just use my kitchen butane torch.

Yes, but will it work underwater? I think you need a torch which includes an oxygen tank. Great idea. Cut through anything.

Ed Lawson

[shewhorn]

>Hmm, after all this back and forth about knives, I think

>I've decided to just use my kitchen butane torch.

Sissy!!! I'm considering "sea snips" although I've decided that if I go that route I want something more manly because sea snips just sounds wimpy. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0002.gif Can anyone help me out with lashing the Jaws of Life to my PFD?

http://www.tmgcgart.com/assets/images/JOLtestB.jpg

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/evilg...vilgrin0007.gif http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0018.gif

Cheers http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/party/party0012.gif , Joe

[shewhorn]

On a more serious note, as the person who originally posed the question I'd like to say that I've received the information I was after so thank you to all who participated. I have a few parting thoughts. It does seem as if I've stumbled upon a subject where folks are quite passionate about their beliefs with regards to what is better. Personally they're just tools to me and each tool comes with its own streghts and weaknesses. Regardless of that I believe that I should be equipped with SOME cutting device, be it a hook knife or a blunt tipped blade.

After hearing about the adventures of John and Keith on Plum Island I searched around to dig up their report (BTW... to the other folks such as myself who are new to the sport I think that thread is required reading, it can be found here:

http://www.nspn.org/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID5/451.html

... thanks to Kevin and John for such a thorough write up, I'll be buying some new safety gear an ensuring that I can get to it easily as a result). With regards to cutting the tow line they got tangled in I don't believe hook v. blunt tipped knife would have made any difference. With that said here's what I've come away with:

No cutting device:

Pros - you won't cut yourself

Cons - you won't cut anything else either

Based on that I'd say SOME cutting device is a must

All straight blade knives -

Pros - The longer the blade, the less precision that's required to cut your line. Aren't limited to what size of line you can cut based on aperture of hook. Much more surface area than a hook knife to cut with. Can be used for clearing a stuck skeg.

Cons - Although sheaths are designed to retain the knife unless a button is pressed or the handle is squeezed, when rescuing a panicking boater the knife is a handle they can grab on to. Regardless of design the safety systems can fail causing potentical harm to the rescuer or the rescuee. Some knives have been known to come unsheathed during cowboy up or on other self/assisted rescue techniques.

Knife - sharp tip

Pros - easier to stab through a spray skirt that won't come off

Cons - easier to stab through a leg under the spray skirt if you're caught in a washing machine and can't anticipate wave movement. Increases potential for compromising a dry suit.

Knife - blunt tip

Pros - Less danger of puncturing yourself, or your wet/dry suit and compromising its/(your) effectiveness.

Cons - I suppose in a situation where you'd need to stab something you'd be out of luck (although I can't think of too many situations where this would be required)

Hook knife

Pros - Sharp edge is protected, much harder to cut yourself with. Small profile doesn't leave a big handle on your PFD that a panicked rescuee might unintentionally grab on to. As all of the hook knives I've seen are secured in a pouch vs. being secured by some type of spring loaded retension system it's less likely that it will be inadvertently deployed during a rescue operation (either as a rescuer or rescuee) and even if it does the risk of injury is greatly reduced.

Cons - Size of rope that you can cut is limited by the aperture of the knife opening. It may take slightly longer to deploy in an emergency.

Now, with everything listed that brings me down to probabilities and possibilities or the risk associated with each. I don't believe there's enough data to reach any solid conclusions. The dissonance I've seen on the forum suggests that there is a lot of disagreement in these areas as well (wheighing the risks and benefits of one tool over another).

Again, thanks to all who've participated, the responses have been most educational. Thanks especially to Keith and John for the Plum Island write up. What I took away from that is... In addition to my VHF (which I will be mounting on my PFD) it's preferable to have flares on hand and in a vest as well as something that cuts. Unfortunately this means I have to go PFD shopping. My PFD only has one pocket and not a lot of options for lashing things to it.

Cheers, Joe

[brwells]

>I think you need a torch which includes an oxygen tank.

Wait...there's the answer: oxygen tank. If we had one of those then we can take our time and gnaw through lines, wait until others notice the predicament and come over with their own knives and jaws of life, and it gives Kevin enough time to prepare the dessert.

Brian

P&H Capella 163

Red/White/Black trim

[Deb Millar]

Knives? Bob and I don't need no stinkin' knives.

He carries the chainsaw and I carry the gasoline.

That way we can cut down trees, build a bonfire and cure our hypothermia -- and summon the Coast Guard at the same time.

How convenient.

Deb M

[Brian Nystrom]

The knife you've got looks good, as long as the plastic sheath doesn't break. I've had that happen, too.

[djlewis]

>>I think you need a torch which includes an oxygen tank.

>

>Wait...there's the answer: oxygen tank. If we had one of

>those then we can take our time and gnaw through lines, wait

>until others notice the predicament and come over with their

>own knives and jaws of life, and it gives Kevin enough time

>to prepare the dessert.

>

>Brian

>

>P&H Capella 163

>Red/White/Black trim

LOL -- ROFLMAO!!

I'm going to dream about gnawing lines tonight, I just know it.

--David.

[djlewis]

You forgot the pros & cons on Sea Snips.

Here's a con. I just got mine out of the closet -- yup, own one but haven't mounted it yet. It's a huge honker, especially with the retaining flap that I don't see on Jed's -- 9" long x 2" wide x 1" thick at the handles.

--David.

[wilsoj2]

I had the knife to which you link. I was very happy with it and the sheath is still firmly attached to my pfd. Unfortunately the knife itself went missing during the Canoe Safety Test a week ago Saturday and is now on the bottom of Great Long Pond MDI.

I now have Sea Snips.

[Dee Hall]

[josko]

What's the deal with the NRS 'Titanium' knife?  I ask because titanium doesn't really hold an edge and is not a reasonable knife blank material.  Is it made out of some uber-stainless steel alloy? Do they also upgrade the spring clip material over the 'pilot'?

I ask because the spring clip on my NRS co-pilot finally disintegrated over the winter and I need a new knife.

[jason]

If your going to carry a knife I like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Atlantic-Serrated-Knife-Yellow/dp/B000FLTP0A

[josko]

Can you open oysters with that one? Best feature of the NRS pilot. (I do carry a smooth-edge Spyderco in my day hatch.)

Actually, I need a knife mostly because people seem to expect their kayak leaders to be rigged like Ninja warriors.

Edited April 6, 2016 by josko

[jason]

I wouldn't use a rescue knife for oysters or anything that might dull it.   I leave it sticking out of a pocket and rinse it, open close it after every paddle.

 

[4runner]

I've got this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I9OU30Q?psc=1

some pretty great features, blazingly sharp, line cutter hook, an amazing squeeze lock system that won't let it come loose during rescue practice.  

And, it comes with bolts and hardware to attach to PFD shoulder straps. 

It's also made in titanium, but I've got the SS model shown in the link. 

Good luck, be safe!

[leong]

3 hours ago, 4runner said:

I've got this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I9OU30Q?psc=1

 

That's the one on my PFD now. I have the titanium version. I think it's not as sharp as the SS version but it sure doesn't rust at all.

[Pintail]

None of them rust -- if you remember to ladle out lashings of Vaseline onto them regularly!  Remember that if you buy too large a knife, it tends to get in the way on your PFD -- especially important, I would think, in these days when paddlers carry VHF sets lashed to their life-vests and fill the pockets with whistles, signaling mirrors, emergency food, flares, emergency-this and emergency-that, spare compass, everything but the kitchen sink!  Oh, and gallons and gallons of water <behind>!  We'll all be sinking, soon, because our PFDs offer too little flotation...

 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Pintail

[josko]

FWIW, it was my sheath clip that rusted out, not the knife. NRS admitted they make two grades of knife, for salt and fresh water, but only one grade of sheath.  I did keep that knife sharp and oiled, but the quality of steel was pathetic.