greenland paddle replacement

[emilie]

I seem to have broken my paddle today. It was a wood greenland stick. And I'm wondering whether to replace it with another wood paddle or with a carbon paddle. Any opinions on why one is better or worse than the other?

[Doug]

I seem to have broken my paddle today. It was a wood greenland stick. And I'm wondering whether to replace it with another wood paddle or with a carbon paddle. Any opinions on why one is better or worse than the other?

You won't break a carbon paddle but they are a bit different than wood ones in feel and weight. If you can swing it, you really should have both. I often use my carbon paddle when I know I will be rough with it and save my wood paddles for mellow trips or tricks.

Ed and his wife are very happy with their new "Lumpy" paddles (under $200) and Superior Kayak makes very nice carbon ones ($4-500).

or: Cheri and Turner will be at Pawtuckaway next Saturday doing a forward stroke clinic for us in the morning and a rolling clinic in the afternoon. I bet they have one you could purchase quickly.

I have a new spare paddle you could buy made by Joe O'Blenis that is multi-woods and 30.6 oz at 87" but pricey. I've only used it for 10 minutes. Let me know if your interested.

Doug

[brambor]

Emilie, I've had one made by Fred Randall whom I believe you met during some balance bracing sessions.

[beckt]

Sorry about the paddle, but replace with wood - and get 2!

[beckt]

Oh - a wood paddle you can make or have made specifically to fit you and your boat. A carbon paddle is one size fits all. No doubt, though, the superior greenland stick is a fine paddle. And I just like the feel of wood. Lots of nice builders out there, including Turner. I am curious about these Joe O'blenis paddles.

[Gcosloy]

Wood is cheaper particularly if you make it yourself. I have a red cedar one that I don't use much. If you'd like to borrow it until you figure out what you need you're welcome to it. I think it is 84"L and 3"W good for small to medium hands. Also a loom of about 20".

[EEL]

Superior Kayak makes very nice carbon ones ($4-500).

If going in harm's way, this is the GP of choice. They even make a two piece version.

Greg Stamer uses them and on solo expeditions where paddle failure is not an option. I know someone who has used one for years, taken quite a few major trips, and no problem. A paddler in Calif. who does mainly coastal rough water play and such stuff as the tide rips in S.F. His paddle of choice is also the Superior.

The wood Superior paddle, which is also sold as a kit, is a laminated paddle and is quite strong.

The Lumpy paddle is a work of art and performs very well.

Ed Lawson

[bob budd]

I have a Greenland paddle made specifically for me that is beefier due to my lack of regard for most any tool I use. In addition, I glass the ends roughly once a year (and add reflective coatings for visibility). Oiled whenever it begins to look dry, this paddle is several years old and little the worse for wear. I'd say the wood paddle is the way to go.

[EEL]

Oh - a wood paddle you can make or have made specifically to fit you and your boat.... And I just like the feel of wood.

Interestingly, Mark Rogers, who makes the Superior carbon GP prefers his wooden paddles and is bemused about how many folks buy his carbon paddles over the wood ones. For people paddling thousands of miles a year and in places where paddles get hammered, the Superior carbon has proven itself. Of course such people are in the minority to say the least, and I too prefer wood. Lots of good paddle makers out there and most will take the time to get the paddle customized to your size and paddle preferences.

The one size issue is important. I have been told and believe after working on a paddle or two that a 1/8 " difference in loom width can make for a huge difference in feel as can the shape of the shoulders let alone width and thickness and blade contour. So having one made "just right" for you makes for a really, really nice paddle. And don't think they are all alike. GPs vary for use and function just as EPs do.

Ed Lawson

[grl]

I am very accustomed to the feel of wood and like it. That said, the differences of blade width, loom length, and type of wood all impact how the paddle feels and performs. Also weight is a factor. Western red ceder with a narrow blade at my size is almost weightless and effortless to use for hours. By way of comparison, I had the chance to use a Superior carbon fiber one-piece paddle for a day. This paddle was too long for me, and the blade width was wider than optimal (for someone my size) which gave a bigger bite per stroke--but it was useable and I used it for a day. The primary difference to me was a much stiffer, unforgiving feel which is not bad for certain types of paddling, but the wood has a softer feel, a slight flex/blending with stroke that is kind to the shoulders and more pleasant after a few hours of continuous paddling. The CF was light in weight, but did not have the same buoyant exit at the end of the stroke. None of this is bad, just different. I was considering a CF as an alternative but have yet to get one! Hope this helps. Gail

[kate]

FWIW, over the span of 20 years of paddling, the only paddles I've ever seen broken while in use (whitewater or sea kayaking) were carbon fiber. I don't trust them. They are very strong until they are hit in that certain way. Then they snap.

Just my experience....

Kate

[PeterB]

FWIW, over the span of 20 years of paddling, the only paddles I've ever seen broken while in use (whitewater or sea kayaking) were carbon fiber. I don't trust them. They are very strong until they are hit in that certain way. Then they snap.

Just my experience....

Kate

You can always make your own. It's pretty easy, about 6 hours of labor. If I can do it, just about anyone can.

Go for it!

[tyson]

You can always make your own. It's pretty easy, about 6 hours of labor. If I can do it, just about anyone can.

Its not going to happen in our tiny little apartment. Maybe after we get the house built this summer...

[Brian Nystrom]

The one size issue is important. I have been told and believe after working on a paddle or two that a 1/8 " difference in loom width can make for a huge difference in feel as can the shape of the shoulders let alone width and thickness and blade contour.

This is particularly true for women, as most commercial stock-sized paddles have looms and blade widths sized for the hands of an average adult man. Making your own or having one custom made is the way to go for women.

Superior's carbon paddle is a very nice piece of gear, but you're limited to the available sizes and it's very stiff, which for me makes it less enjoyable to use than a paddle with a bit of flex and snap to it. Again, this is relative to the size and strength of the paddler, and also to personal preferences.

[Doug]

I seem to have broken my paddle today. It was a wood greenland stick. And I'm wondering whether to replace it with another wood paddle or with a carbon paddle. Any opinions on why one is better or worse than the other?

I saw where your paddle broke on Tyson's facebook album. Save your money. Looks like you simply need to replace the dowels & glue it back together. If it is too far gone or splintered, use it as a trophy for the day. Anything glued perpendicular or doweled in my opinion don't really cut the mustard on wood GP's. They look perdy but are your weakest point of the paddle taking the most stress. Epoxy tips are much stronger but add a little excess weight on the tips. Everything is a bit of a trade-off.

I still say if you want to beat on a paddle, the Carbon Fiber is the way to go for surf, rockin it, etc. Use the wood one for everything else.

Start a paddle collection! Cheaper than a a boat collection and will take up hardly any roon in your apartment. You can even mount them on the wall as decoration.

[EEL]

I seem to have broken my paddle today.

From Tyson's pictures you are a brave lass to put the Greenland through its paces in that environment. Which makes me ask, how did you find it for surfing? From pictures looks as if it punches out and surfs on the wave pretty well all things considered.

Ed Lawson

Who is envious

[tyson]

than a paddle with a bit of flex and snap to it.

I think that in this case we might be looking for less "flex and snap".

Actually, this damage was the result of accidentally getting the tip caught between some rocks in rather flat and mild conditions, except for a bit of current that resulted in snapping the tip off. Hurry for spare paddles!

Your comments on typical sizing/fit are probably relevant here.

[emilie]

Thanks for all the input. The paddle I broke was a nice custom made wood paddle by Fred Randall. So I definitely can agree with the benefits of a custom paddle. However, it sounds like I'll have to ponder whether I need the durability of a carbon paddle, or maybe I should take Doug's suggestion and do both. (Wood paddles are only cheaper than carbon if you don't break too many.)

Emilie

[emilie]

From Tyson's pictures you are a brave lass to put the Greenland through its paces in that environment. Which makes me ask, how did you find it for surfing? From pictures looks as if it punches out and surfs on the wave pretty well all things considered.

It rode over and through the waves just fine. I had been afraid it would mostly go through due to low bow volume, but it didn't seem to suffer. As far as surfing in, it seemed to pearl more than I think the Anas Acuta does. So the steeper waves weren't as much fun. The slightly flatter waves were great. And the hull is actually fast enough that I was able to catch back up to one wave I fell off of.

The other thing we encountered that day was a good bit of wind (~13kts with ~25 kt gusts). I generally didn't have to use the skeg to correct for weather cocking. I did notice that if I lifted my upwind edge, the wind would sometimes catch it and flip me over.

So overall, definitely a fun boat. I will have to say, though, that adding or removing a few pounds will probably change how the boat handles since it will change the water line a lot what with the long upsweep on the bow and stern.

And as far as bravery, well, I knew that's the sort of water I was buying the Tahe Greenland for.

Ed Lawson

Who is envious

I bet your skin on frame would be just as much fun.

Emilie

[tyson]

From Tyson's pictures you are a brave lass to put the Greenland through its paces in that environment.

It appears that newer Greenlands are heavier and stronger than either of Gail's old or new one. We'll see how it holds up. ...if she's not having fun it it, its worthless anyway. Worst case, she'll have fun making it worthless.

I bet your skin on frame would be just as much fun.

I'm now drooling over a skin version of this boat. It seems to be a lot like the AA, but faster.

Now I just need to convince Emilie that I need a chance to try it in surf to compare its tendency to perl to that of the AA.

[EEL]

It appears that newer Greenlands are heavier and stronger...

Appears so. I know someone who got one this spring and weight was all the way up to 46+ pounds and was noticeably heavier to lift.

...if she's not having fun it it, its worthless anyway. Worst case, she'll have fun making it worthless.

As a timid woodland creature I admire that attitude.

I'm now drooling over a skin version of this boat.

Google Black Pearl as well as Seabirddesigns. SOF versions of the BP have been made and it is very similar to the Greenland. In fact some say the Greenland is a copy of the BP. I believe the designers know each other well.

It seems to be a lot like the AA, but faster.

My SWAG is that the Greenland is quite different in several respects. It seems to be a modern boat design inspired by traditional SE Greenland boats while the AA is a modified copy of a W Greenland boat. If you look you will see that compared to the AA the hull volume is carried well out to the end for example. Somewhere the designer of the BP discusses a boat he designed for Seabirddesigns which is an updated version of the AA. Interesting stuff. Unfortunately Seabirdesigns are not sold in US. The designer of the Greenland has designed some very neat boats for Point 65 North and Tahe which depart from traditional Brit designs, but were reviewed positively in the UK.

Now I just need to convince Emilie that I need a chance to try it in surf to compare its tendency to perl to that of the AA.

Lots of luck on that.

Ed Lawson

[Brian Nystrom]

Thanks for all the input. The paddle I broke was a nice custom made wood paddle by Fred Randall. So I definitely can agree with the benefits of a custom paddle. However, it sounds like I'll have to ponder whether I need the durability of a carbon paddle

It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. Wood paddles can be glassed to improve their durability, without adding much weight. It will also increase the stiffness considerably, making it feel more like a carbon paddle.