Second opinion about what to buy

[brambor]

I am looking to buy a boat this weekend. I have just spent 2 hours with a very knowledgeable kayaker talking about yaks and I had a chance to paddle NDK Explorer HV and NDK Romany Surf HV. Both fit me great. Regular explorer was too tight. The good part is that I love both of these boats for purchase. The bad part is that the guy for some reason did not commit to the sale right away and I will have to chase him a little bit to complete the sale this weekend.

On the other hand I also have a chance to get my hands on a Valley Q-Boat for a decent price. I did not paddle the Q-boat but I did have a chance to sit in it and the fit was good too.

From some threads I read that the Q-Boat was Valley's answer to offer something similar to the Explorer. It appears to me that the Q-Boat has harder chines than the Explorer.

I should add that I am currently in Nordkapp H20 and my wife has a Seda Ikkuma 17. I thought that I would get a third boat for me or for my son (we are both of similar build. I thought the boat could be slightly different than our 2 boats to offer some variety. The Romany Surf seemed to fit the mold. The Explorer was great too. Both were noticeably slower than my Nordkapp. The Q-Boat is a mystery to me.

[Gcosloy]

The Q boat is Valley's Anas Acuta for a larger paddler. It is very unlike an Explorer. The Q boat has a tender primary, hard chines and a good deal of rocker. You should paddle these boats in conditions that you intend to paddle in before making a decision. Both the Explorer and Romany would not disappoint most but the Q-Boat may be an acquired taste

[wilsoj2]

The Aquanaut was/is Valley's answer to the Explorer. Back in 2003 my final two were the Explorer or the Aquanaut. I chose the Aquanaut for its livelier hull and greater glide. Though I recommend an Explorer to more paddlers than any other boat (except a Romany). If you like your Nordkapp you might find the Explorer rather loglike.

I greatly enjoy my Romany, Nordkapp LV and my Aquanaut. I tend to feel like yawning when I'm paddling an Explorer

[rick stoehrer]

after a question has been answered corectly, thoroughly, there is no need to further address it....so to say that anything is "the answer" to an explorer....well, i think the manufacturers can only be less right at best.

and more people have paddled those "logs" into lumpy, bumpy exciting water than you'd care to count.

if you want your excitement to come from the water you paddle and not the boat your in, then the explorer is a really good choice. most folks come to appreciate em when it gets a little bumpy.

it ain't fast, it ain't slow, it'll turn just fine and go straight as you want and it's very predictable....and it's that predictability that you'll most appreciate once the water gets to the point where predicting that takes most of your concentration....it's about then you're glad the boat is "log like".

[brambor]

If I get lucky this weekend I'll get to buy the Romany S

I can't help but get weird vibes about the Q boat from everywhere I mention it. Looks like it is not a very popular choice. I don't see many for sale used but I also don't see many offered new.

after a question has been answered corectly, thoroughly, there is no need to further address it....so to say that anything is "the answer" to an explorer....well, i think the manufacturers can only be less right at best.

and more people have paddled those "logs" into lumpy, bumpy exciting water than you'd care to count.

if you want your excitement to come from the water you paddle and not the boat your in, then the explorer is a really good choice. most folks come to appreciate em when it gets a little bumpy.

it ain't fast, it ain't slow, it'll turn just fine and go straight as you want and it's very predictable....and it's that predictability that you'll most appreciate once the water gets to the point where predicting that takes most of your concentration....it's about then you're glad the boat is "log like".

[rick stoehrer]

If I get lucky this weekend I'll get to buy the Romany S

I can't help but get weird vibes about the Q boat from everywhere I mention it. Looks like it is not a very popular choice. I don't see many for sale used but I also don't see many offered new.

the surf is slower than the explorer but more nimble for sure...it comes down to what you like to do.

as ever, paddle, try, repeat....buy

[Michael_Crouse]

I don't think the Q-boat never really caught on. Another NSPN member bought one and I think he sold it and is back to his Explorer. I think it's one of those love it or hate kayaks, the Romany and Explorer have been much better received. Wilson may be right that those NDK kayaks might seem a bit less lively than your current kayaks but if that's the case just take it out in bigger waves!

I don't think you can go wrong with the NDK boats (the build quality discussion not withstanding - no flames please) and the only real way to find out if you like a boat is to buy it and paddle it for a year or so.

[EEL]

the only real way to find out if you like a boat is to buy it and paddle it for a year or so.

So true, especially for us weekend warriors. I suspect only those who use a boat consistently and regularly for over a year in a variety of conditions appreciate how true.

Ah, the NDK evangelical debate...may it live forever.

Somehow the concepts of horses for riders and horses for courses must apply to this.

Ed Lawson

[wilsoj2]

While Rick tends to think 'Explorer' is the answer to all boat questions, I think everyone should have a Romany at some point in their paddling life

Seriously, with the boats already in the task force (Nordkapp and Ikumma 17), a Romany of some sort seems the best choice to add variety and serve as a good guest boat.

BTW, being livelier is not inherently synonymous with being unpredictable. IMHO, both a TideRace Excite and a Valley Aquanaut are livelier hulls than an Explorer, but are just as predictable in conditions. They are, like the Explorer, boats you don't have to think about when the seas are...

[Deb Millar]

after a question has been answered corectly, thoroughly, there is no need to further address it....so to say that anything is "the answer" to an explorer....well, i think the manufacturers can only be less right at best.

and more people have paddled those "logs" into lumpy, bumpy exciting water than you'd care to count.

if you want your excitement to come from the water you paddle and not the boat your in, then the explorer is a really good choice. most folks come to appreciate em when it gets a little bumpy.

it ain't fast, it ain't slow, it'll turn just fine and go straight as you want and it's very predictable....and it's that predictability that you'll most appreciate once the water gets to the point where predicting that takes most of your concentration....it's about then you're glad the boat is "log like".

Not to even start a discussion about NDK vs. Every Other Boat Ever Made vs. Quality Control , but the first thing I discovered when I bought my ExplorerLV was the way it fit me in particular -- and, by no means, do I recommend that Everyone get one as fit is most crucial for happy boat handling -- and how "secure", a word I used when I described it to the local dealer, it made me feel in bigger conditions.

Feeling secure in a boat goes a long way to learning skills and using them in varied big and little seas. The ExplorerLV -- I paddled Pinkster for the first time in two years last weekend -- can be "log-like" but its fit, at least for me, works very well. While I know that there is no "perfect kayak" and no boat is a substitute for learning how to paddle properly and efficiently, I know that Pinkster won't let me down.

As for playfulness, I wholly agree with Jim Wilson about the Romany. I paddle my RomanyLV 99% of the time and it's been my go-to kayak for the three years I've owned one. Again, it has the correct fit for me, and, like its larger sister, it gives one a feeling of security no matter what the conditions. It can't be beat, except for perhaps a Pintail, in rocks and surf and rolling it is a dream.

Some one who switched to NDK after fighting the Anglesy Dark Side for years (I admit, I include myself in this group also, until I saw the light....or dark) and finally succumbed to the kayak bearing the Welsh Griffin decal on the stern, said that the reassuring thing about the Explorer is that it doesn't like to be upside down. This attribute, which I know can also be attached to a rec boat, goes a long way in learning how to roll and the knowledge that good bracing will keep you up through fairly gnarly conditions.

Again, I don't want to start a brouhaha about the attributes of NDK, Valley, P&H and TideRace -- after all, the husband owns an Avocet and a Pintail as they fit him correctly, a number of my paddling friends own and love P&H, and I've yet to paddle a TideRace -- as I feel that one should paddle what works for them and not all boats fit everyone the same, but, lumber-like or not, NDK boats have a lot to recommend them as long as they fit and make you smile at the end of the paddling day.

Deb M

[rick stoehrer]

So true, especially for us weekend warriors. I suspect only those who use a boat consistently and regularly for over a year in a variety of conditions appreciate how true.

Ah, the NDK evangelical debate...may it live forever.

Somehow the concepts of horses for riders and horses for courses must apply to this.

Ed Lawson

evangelists play nicer together...kayakers? salt drunk, crazed zealout bastards...every one of us...but we mean well.

[wilsoj2]

"I think everyone should have a Romany at some point in their paddling life. "

Like Deb, I resisted the NDK cult for a while...but, after spending over a week on Muscongus Bay in a Romany Tom Bergh loaned me and my convincing Tom that I really wanted to buy a Romany from him I got my own in 2005... I paddle it more than my 3 other sea kayaks combined.

And though I have no desire to own an Explorer, I do recommend Explorers to most paddlers who want expedition length boats and are not small people. Especially novices, as it is such a reassuring boat that both takes care of you and supports skills development.

[brambor]

exactly how much convincing did it take you before Tom sold you the boat?

"I think everyone should have a Romany at some point in their paddling life. "

Like Deb, I resisted the NDK cult for a while...but, after spending over a week on Muscongus Bay in a Romany Tom Bergh loaned me and my convincing Tom that I really wanted to buy a Romany from him I got my own in 2005... I paddle it more than my 3 other sea kayaks combined.

And though I have no desire to own an Explorer, I do recommend Explorers to most paddlers who want expedition length boats and are not small people. Especially novices, as it is such a reassuring boat that both takes care of you and supports skills development.

[wilsoj2]

exactly how much convincing did it take you before Tom sold you the boat?

Quite a bit - as it did when we ordered my Aquanaut and Celia's Explorer LV from him in 2003. For the Romany, I actually started talking with Tom about buying one before he loaned me one. He didn't feel I had spent enough time in a Romany to justify my decision to buy one. Even after paddling the one he loaned me, it took another round of conversations and email.

There is no one better from whom to buy a boat. When Tom says "We're not about selling boats" he is being absolutely honest. In my experience and every case I know, Tom wants to be certain that the boat is the right boat for the individual.