Carbon Fiber Greenland Paddles - Anyone have the _____?

[billvoss]

I'm again exploring the possibly of getting a carbon-fiber Greenland paddle. My one absolute requirement is that it be a shoulder-less design. I've briefly borrowed a number of carbon-fiber paddles over the years, some I liked, some I didn't really like all that much. So I'm looking for people in NSPN who own one or more of the paddles I'm considering with the idea that I would join a paddle or pond session they were attending anyway to briefly try out their paddle before I order one of my own.

A few years ago I was going to get a fully custom Novorca including personalized art work. However, I never finalized the art work. Now Novorca sems to be in transition from being a pure made-to-order artisan operation to more of a mass production house. Eventually, that may result in great less expensive paddles. However, for the moment it means a very limited selection which does not include the paddle I dreamed of owning. Nobody seems to be filling the old Novorca niche right now, but there are some mass production alternatives which look promising and are less expensive as well.

Does anyone have a Gearlab composite Greenland Paddle? I'm especially interested in the Oyashio, but even trying a Kuroshio would help.

Does anyone have a Northern Light Paddle? I'm especially interested in their Shoulderless Greenland design, but even trying their regular Greenland design would be useful.

By the way, if you own a carbon-fiber shoulder-less Greenland paddle you want to sell, we might be able to make a deal. I love buying used because I'm very cheap! Have you seen the kayak I paddle?

thanks,

Bill Voss

Reply here or PM me.

[beckt]

I am also interested in this conversation. I, like you, almost pulled the trigger on a Norvaca and regret not doing so.

…..And if anyone has a carbon fiber paddle in their closet that is pining for the water --- i would be interested too! (Have you seen the boat I paddle!!!)

[Deb Millar]

Barb and Bill,

Get in touch with Turner Wilson at KayakWays. I think he's been doing design work with Novorca and could help you out.

Deb M (who has paddled with one of Turner's designs in carbon but loves her Werner Cyprus)

[beckt]

Turner and Cheri have designed the Razor…. yes - a very beautiful paddle. And yes - I do love my cyprus too

[billvoss]

So the paddle gods were having fun with me today. After posting this thread I went to Walden pond. I was a bit slow getting ready so the others paddled across the lake, as I wanted them to do. When I eventually headed across, I did so alone. It was rather warm, so I decided to take a quick cool down roll. My wonderful, if somewhat warped, Alaskan Yellow Cedar Greenland paddle which began life in a Turner Wilson paddle making workshop broke in two as I began to roll up. To add minor insult to that injury, I had decided that I would not be using my euro or my first Greenland paddle for this session, and had left them in the car. So with no paddle available, I ended up swimming back to the boat ramp towing my kayak to fetch my other paddles.

beckt - you can only have the closet paddles that have shoulders. Its not nice starting a bidding war with me for the shoulder-less paddles! :-)

Deb M - I actually paddled and quite liked the original wooden Razor paddle which I believe formed the basis of the Novorca Razor. Sherri had just finished carving it when I took my first, and so far only, "rolling for the hardy" class with KayakWays. That wooden paddle was also the model I was mostly trying to duplicate when I carved the paddle that I broke today.

Unfortunately, one of the things I saw earlier today at the Novorca website is that the Razor paddle has been discontinued. As of today, the website implies you can buy a basic black 1 piece or 2 piece X2 in size 88 or 86 with sizes 84 & 90 coming soon. I don't think he is offering any other paddles at the moment. Unfortunately the X2 has "comfortable wider shoulders" so I am not considering the X2. Given his new $13,000 of equipment per paddle design approach, I think the days of custom Novorca paddles are probably gone.

[billvoss]

The continuing saga of my search for the perfect Greenland paddle for me.

But first an aside based on a PM'ed question. If you are interested in any aspect of Greenland Kayaking, the two sites that I recommend above all others are http://www.qajaqusa.org/ and http://qajaqrolls.com/ both of which provide a wealth of information from beginner to advanced. Particularly relevant for this thread are the "The Perfect Greenland Paddle" and the Qajaqrolls Greenland Paddle Manufacturers page. To understand why I want a shoulder-less paddle also read Gnarlydog News review of the Shoulder-less Northern Light paddle.

When I started this thread two whole days ago, based on my web searching I had pretty much narrowed my choices down to Gearlab or Northern Light Paddles. My fervent desire for a shoulder-less paddle definitely eliminated most of the mass-market Carbon Fiber paddles. Yesterday I decided to also search for a custom Carbon Fiber paddle alternative. I found a promising possibility in the UK from Cedarboats Europe, and sent them an inquiry. I got a very nice response, and they were able to make the paddle I thought I wanted yesterday with two little issues. The first issue was price. With shipping from the UK the total charge would be about $770, gulp. The other issue was that he wrote "the earliest I could produce a paddle would be the beginning of September."

Last night Doug was nice enough to lend me his Carbon-Fiber 2-piece Superior Kayaks paddle at the surf session. The paddle has shoulders, so I was not considering it. However, it is also the first time I ever paddled with a Carbon-Fiber-Greenland paddle "in conditions." My previous Carbon-Fiber-Greenland paddle experience was limited to flat water. The first thing I noticed after we launched was that the shoulders acted like magnets for my hands. For a beginner that might be a good thing, but I hated it. My hands no longer automatically slid along the paddle and I felt that impaired my paddling. The next thing I noticed really surprised me. The Superior Kayaks paddle uses a recessed fastener system, so there is a simple indent on the loom. It bothered me whenever my hand slid across the indent. I'm suspect I would get used to it, but I didn't last night. Then we hit conditions and I was miserable. The paddle Doug lent me is about four inches shorter than the paddle I broke, and has narrower blades. That translates into noticeably less leverage than my old paddle, and that is part of what really threw me off. I really wanted to get used to that paddle, and forced myself to use it for almost an hour, but never felt confident enough to surf with it. Finally I stowed the Carbon-Fiber and pulled out my remaining wooden Greenland paddle. Instantly I felt comfortable again. I was frankly shocked by the difference in how I felt on the water. Using my wooden Greenland paddle I proceeded to have a fun time surfing until I headed home, despite the shoulders on my remaining wooden Greenland paddle.

I'm not 100% certain, but I think a key difference was grip. After holding the Carbon-Fiber for almost an hour, the moment I picked up my wooden paddle it felt like I was holding sandpaper. I realized that I never felt totally confident that I would keep my grip on the Carbon-Fiber paddle, but I was very confident my wooden paddle would not be slipping out of my hands. I wonder a bit if the Carbon-Fiber paddle would have felt more secure if I had taken my gloves off. However, it is somewhat a mute point, since I am a glove person, and I do prefer to wear gloves year round.

Today I visited a local lumberyard and picked through their entire modest selection of 2x4x8 Western Red Cedar. I came home with two boards at $32 each, which will require some hours of my labor, but which compares quite favorably with $770 including shipping. For now I think I'll live with heavy home-made wooden Greenland paddles. Hopefully I'll finish at least one paddle before the beginning of September! Eventually I may get the itch to explore Carbon-Fiber again, but probably not this month.

[eburgess]

As a coincidence - Christopher Crowhurst has an article about the quest for the perfect Geenland paddle in the just released issue of Ocean Paddler magazine. I immediately thought of you when I read it.

[EEL]

Bill:

You are not alone. Ironically, Mark of Superior Kayaks prefers wooden paddles.

Ed Lawson

[JohnN]

As a coincidence - Christopher Crowhurst has an article about the quest for the perfect Geenland paddle in the just released issue of Ocean Paddler magazine. I immediately thought of you when I read it.

Wow! Excellent article. Thanks for the tip.

[JohnN]

Hey Bill,

Thanks for documenting your process. We walk the same path it seems. You have asked many more stimulating questions than have been answered, which is not to say that progress has not been made!

I have two AYC planks I've been meaning to turn into shoulderless paddles. Maybe we should get together and work on this. I don't know about you, but this would make it much more likely that these paddles would become a reality.

What do you think about the superior hollow shaft paddle blanks? $175 for cnc blanks that could easily be made shoulderless. An expedient route to a new paddle? It looks like there is a two piece option as well. I'm not too hot on pine for paddles however

Best,

John

[EEL]

John:

The superior blanks are made up of laminations with specific grain orientation with the result being a tough paddle given the fact its made of pine. Mine seems to get chewed up less than my red WRC paddles for some reason.

Another option is to get the GP sold by Shaw & Tenney in Maine. It will be a little heavier since it is Spruce and it does not have vertical grain, but they are very tough paddles. They come rough and it is expected you will modify as needed. They also will custom size them to some extent. I like the blade width as the Superior is a bit wide for for general paddling, IMHO.

Ed Lawson

[JohnN]

Ed, thanks for the info. Great to hear from someone with direct experience with these paddles.

Did you make one from one of the Superior blanks? Seems like one could trim the blade width and reprofile the edges during the finishing out process. Any experience with their two piece option? Tried any carbon paddles?

Many thanks,

John

[glad]

Hi Bill - i have one of Ron Novorca's greenland paddles with no shoulders. I love it and glad I pushed for it before he entered his manufacturing transition. Too bad I didn't know you were interested because weren't you on the windy NSK paddle last weekend? I would have been hard pressed to give it to you on the slog home but you could have tried it some other time in the day.

If you want to try it you can try getting a hold of me at;

drkglad at gmail

Karen

[EEL]

John:

The superior blanks are made up of laminations with specific grain orientation with the result being a tough paddle given the fact its made of pine. Mine seems to get chewed up less than my red WRC paddles for some reason.

Another option is to get the GP sold by Shaw & Tenney in Maine. It will be a little heavier since it is Spruce and it does not have vertical grain, but they are very tough paddles. They come rough and it is expected you will modify as needed. They also will custom size them to some extent. I like the blade width as the Superior is a bit wide for for general paddling, IMHO.

Ed Lawson