JohnHuth

Any idea of the current where you get the onset of problems? For wind, I think anything above 15 knots puts a serious dent in the liklihood of success when rolling into the wind. J

The solo question intrigued me, but I wanted to ask it in a different light. Does anyone claim to have a "bombproof" roll? I will confess to a weak offside sweep. My onside is ok, and extended paddle is strong on both sides. I practice them in as windy/wavey/nasty conditions I can find. I have the following conjecture - given enough wind, no one's roll is bombproof (yes, you shouldn't be out in such conditions, etc, but it happens). That is to say - if you try to roll the wrong way with respect to the wind, if the wind is strong enough, you'll find your limit. John Huth

Interesting thread, here. The month of April is problematic, because the water has yet to warm up, and you end up sweating to death in a drysuit because the air temp is so warm. I frequently solo canoe, kayak and back-pack - and I find that I am conscious about my surroundings in a way that I probably wouldn't be if I was with someone else. I was talking with a friend who also frequently goes solo, and he confirmed the heightened sense of awareness - both of dangers and of wonders. It's a tradeoff - and judgement about conditions becomes paramount. E.g. I'd probably not try rock-gardening in cold water solo. I wouldn't condemn a soloist if they're aware of the risks, but I wouldn't consel it as a paradigm of safe paddling either.

Inexperienced canoeists and kayakers go out in questionable conditions without consulting weather conditions and accidents happen. It's tragic. I'm an assistant scout master and had to lead my son's troop in some large lakes in DownEast Maine. Although I would have loved to enjoy it more, I was chewing my nails for the entire trip because of the boys' safety. We had to "stand-down" one day because the wind was too high for safety. No great wisdom that hasn't already been imparted on this list many times. Sigh...

I just look outside and guess the speed in knots from things like how flags are flying, spray or whitecaps, how much the trees bend and all that. I've played this game of looking at the natural signs, guessing the wind speed and checking the guess at an anemometer (sp?)- over time, I've gotten better at guessing the windspeed. Question to the crowd - what's the maximum speed in knots you would consider going out? I had one day where I couldn't even carry my kayak down to the landing - I think it was around 35 knots - I said "this is insane", and gave up. John H.

I once took my son's Scout Troop on an outing in January. The air temp was -10. As it turned out, nearly everything that I had that was battery powered began to fail. The light output of the flashlight faded, my MP3 player was dead etc etc. The following year,in similar conditions, I took all the critical batteries and put them inside my clothing - close to the warmth - solved the problem. There are some batteries that will perform at cold temperatures, but I don't know much about them. Also - MP3 players: iPod's have internal disk drives that fail in cold weather. Flash cards are the way to go. John H.

Shirley Gomes is my representative. I volunteered my services to NSPN to speak with her. The main consultant she has was Tom Leach, the Harbormaster in Harwichport. I was within only a few hundred meters of the accident when the girls went out, so I probably am tainted with some emotion over this episode - on the other hand, I had fun that day and two people died in the same conditions. My main problem in talking with Shirley Gomes and Tom Leach is that I don't hear a clear consensus with this group (NSPN). If I hear a clear consensus, I will be happy to carry it to Shirley. There are a lot of "what-if's" E.g. if the girls were wearing gear for immersion (a cotton tee shirt over a bathing suit when the water temp is 53 degrees???), if the girls stayed within sight of land, if they had even done something as simple as paying attention to the direction of the wind, it wouldn't have happened. No Flares, no VHF, no decent kayaks, no practice, no knowledge of conditions, no compass, no whistle, no air horn, no PFD etc etc...they did just about everything wrong.

Dang - had me going! J

I'm guessing your judgement is correct. If he was shivering uncontrollably or his lips were blue, that might be another matter. I don't think he'd advanced past the stage where shivering stops, if that's your concern - otherwise he'd be mumbling. If he'd been sculling a lot in cold weather, including rain, he may have been soaked a number of times and his body had acclimatized to colder temperatures during the autumn. This could explain the 20 minute question. All a guess on my part, but I'd have left, like you, FWIW. John

That is amazing! Do you know where it happened? I was in Hawaii last week, and paddled from Maui to place called Molokini Crater - about two miles off the coast. There were a large number of humpback whales out there, and the thought crossed my mind "what if one of these breached on top of me?" I think the closest I got was about 300 meters - not as close as the chap in the mpeg! John Huth

There's the sick joke about William Holden, who died when he had too much to drink, fell down and bonked his head. I think it was something like the "William Holden memorial drinking helmet". Yes, bear in mind the conditions. I don't pack a helmet when I'm out at the bars....

Cool....has anyone surfed 20 foot breakers around here? I'm out at Maui next week....a helmet sounds like a good precaution. How about one of those barrels that people use to go over Niagra Falls?

In anything but calm conditions - necessary.

I've always thought of rock play as a fairly high-level skill, for reasons that may be apparent from the near-misses Mark alludes to. I've been in close proximity to two deaths associated with rock play (big swells hitting a steep-walled cove). In my opinion, rock play requires a lot of skill in both boat handling and in being able to "read" a sea under some of the trickiest of conditions. Without being too prescriptive, a culture of respect for rock gardens in heavy seas should be cultivated. John H.

I looked it up. It looks like a good deal - has all the right features. The progammable scan feature is the best, in my mind, once you get past the standard waterproof and power issues. On solo day trips, when I'm not worried about preserving the batteries, I like to listen to the local chatter on whatever the harbormaster or lobster boats or what-have-you are tuned to, but also have Channel 16 and 9 scanned. I've heard everything from stranded, drunken power-boaters to sightings of great white sharks in my vicinity - wonderful devices. I have an ICOM IC-M32. I think some kayakers have the IC-M88, because they aren't as bulky if worn on the PFD. The HX260S looks like a good deal. If I was given one, and didn't have one already, this would be highly appreciated. John Huth

For sure, I'd be willing to help shuttle, and also paddle as much as I can - time permitting. April conditions - very cold water (39 degrees F), and warmer air temnps (50's). If you dress for immersion, you get very hot - bring lots of drinking water! John

I'd be willing to help you shuttle. My home "turf" (surf?) is the stretch between the Swan River to Chatham - that's about +/- 5 miles on either side of my house - that's easy - basically nil current, and only a few funky spots with a bit of shoaling that can give good breakers. John

I just looked it up on the chart - near the western tip of the Cape near P-town, the depth goes from 180 ft to 18 ft. in a horizontal distance of 600 feet - should be quite something if there are any swells J

Unfortunately I can't help with the current question. I suspect (but don't know) that the currents wouldn't be terribly large because there water isn't as "trapped" in the Bay as it is in Nantucket Sound. When you figure out your route, I'd like to hear what it is (e.g. around Monomoy or cutting through etc). Also, if you want, I have a house on the water in Harwich Port - if the schedule works out, I'd be happy to take a stretch out there on that bit of the coast, if you have any inclination toward company. Best, John Huth

I've been thinking of installing either a foot-pump, or perhaps an electric bilge pump. Any thoughts/comments/experiences? Reason: after practicing reentries in windy/wavey conditions, I found that stabilizing the kayak while hand pumping was the hairiest part. Being able to flip a switch and "take care of it" is tempting to me.

I had a long drive alone from Philadelphia to ponder this weighty question - but all the experts have probably tendered the best advice already here. My $0.02 anyway: over the summer I played with rolls and wet exits in pretty high winds (up to 25 knots - but I was always close to shore etc etc). Even in 25 knot winds, when I did a wet exit (on purpose!), I was able to hold onto my kayak, and I did wonder about whether a tether would help or be a liability in a roll - I still don't know. On the other hand, I recall a bone-headed mistake I made when I was a wee lad of 17 years old. I was doing whitewater canoeing in an aluminum canoe, and then went to the shore. There were huge swells off the Atlantic, and my girlfriend's father talked me into trying to surf the canoe. On the first shot, the thing broached, and I remember being thrashed around in the surf, very helpless, and thinking to myself that there was about a ton of water contained in a ballistic aluminum vessel tumbling around somewhere in my vicinity. Luckily, I escaped unharmed, and suitably chastened. I guess you should be ready to unhook very quickly if you need to. The other thought is that you could spool up the line under the deck rigging so that it can unwind when you tug on it, but won't get you tangled up. I only tether my paddle - but that's me. John H.

Here's a link to a glossary of marine terms: http://www.ican.nf.net/marineglossary_2.htm The distinction between "track" and "heading" as I understand it - the track is the intended and past path of a ship, while "heading" is a direction that you want to keep your ship headed - typically a compass direction. "Bearing" is the compass direction to a given landmark (or seamark..). Here are the definitions from the website: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Track The intended path and past path of the ship. When used in conjunction with ECDIS, additional terminology related to track can include: planned route (planned track) intended path past track past path cross-track distance distance right or left of intended path. Heading The direction in which the longitudinal axis of a craft is pointed, usually expressed in degrees from north (true, magnetic, or compass). Also, the instantaneous direction of a vessel’s bow. It is expressed as the angular direction relative to north, usually 000º at north, clockwise through 359º. Heading should not be confused with course. Heading is a constantly changing value as a vessel yaws back and forth across the course due to the effects of sea, wind, and steering error. Heading is expressed in degrees of either true, magnetic, or compass direction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------

From a dictionary of navigation: ----------------------------------------------------------------- heading. The horizontal direction in which a vehicle is pointed, expressed as an angle between a reference line and the line (hull) extending in the direction the vehicle is pointed, usually measured clockwise from the reference line. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Typically the "reference line" is true north (but could be local magnetic). At a given point - say- upon starting a crossing, you decide that, given current and wind information that you want to proceed at an angle of 55 degrees with respect to true north. This is your heading. I thought this was standard terminology? I'll have to go back to my copy of Bowditch to see how they define it, but that's what I've been used to and have managed to converse with others without looks of bewilderment...maybe they just thought I was crazy (which wouldn't be unprecedented). A kamal is a stick that was employed by Arabian sea farers to estimate angles. In a simple incarnation, it could be a ruler tied to the end of a string - you hold a knot tied to the string in your mouth and look at the ruler. By knowing the length of the string and the markings on the ruler, you can use this as a crude way of estimating angles. While employed by Arabians as a crude astrolabe (measuring the height of stars), you can also use this for coastal piloting. Example - you know that a given mountain, or feature is a certain height (e.g. a lighthouse). Using the kamal, or equivalent technique, you can figure out the vertical angle that the lighthouse subtends. The angle plus the known height of the object gives you a distance. If you know the horizontal bearing to the object, then you know your precise location. Rather than create a home-made kamal, you can put markings on your paddle - or get a calibration for the angles that your outstretched hand/fist/finger subtends and use this as a crude kamal. There are a number of "rules" of thumb (no pun intended...well, maybe...) that you can easily memorize to allow you to use this for coastal piloting. Best, John Huth

I wasn't suggesting that one use GPS as a crutch, but rather it can add some useful redundancy. I don't recall a time when mine had failed, however - even in thick fogs and bad rains. Certainly, given enough sheilding, the satellite signals can be blocked. It can also save time if you have to call for help. If you're calling, and give an SAR team your longitude and latitude, they can find you much more rapidly than if have a vague "Oh, about a mile off of Crow Point..." Search and rescue becomes "resuce" with no "search". Another good use is in calibrating the wind-drift speed of your kayak. In different wind conditions, I've frequently allowed myself to drift and used the true velocity from the GPS to create a "kayak drift as a function of wind speed" chart. Every kayak is different in how the wind can affect it, and having some sense of the lee-way you should allow in a crossing can be very handy. That said, I carry a hand compass (to get bearings on the chart) and have a deck mount for steering. As I said earlier - I also have some notes on headings and times on paper, so I can use that for dead-reckoning in the fog. My primary navigation is the traditional coastal piloting you might find in Burch's book, but I've even gone to the extreme of going compass-less to develop more intuitive skills. Example: calibrate the angle subtended by your hand with your arm outstretched (like a kamal) - how many degrees is a full span? a fist? a finger (pick one...) etc. But, I carry a GPS because it's light, gives some more margin of redundancy, it's always worked, but if it fails, I'm ready, if, for some reason, the compass fails, I'm ready. If both the compass and the GPS fail, I'm ready. Maybe the bottom line is that I'm a nerd, and gadgets are required equipment for my ilk. John

Any opinions on GPS? In times when you might expect a sea-fog, I have waypoints programmed, and have a dead-reckoning set of legs with both compass headings (already taking out declination) and paddle times for each leg (in case the GPS dies - redundancy also gives confidence). I put the dead-reckoning bearings on a piece of paper inside my chart-folder. If you're doing a crossing and get socked in by the fog, having the GPS slowly tick off the distance to a way point can be a great morale booster. GPS can also give your absolute speed and bearing. If you're worried about the effect of tide or wind, it can tell you your true headway. John