63 replies to this topic

[Doug]

KAYAK CAMPING GEAR "so many choices"

With Spring approaching quickly, some of us may be deciding to get more deeply involved in kayak camping or find the need to update or upgrade their gear.
I have created this forum as a sounding board where those of you with kayak camping experience can share your suggestions.

TENTS / SLEEPING BAGS / COOKWEAR / OTHER ESSENTIALS "so many choices on gear"

Being new to kayak camping, I realize that weight is a big factor. Personally I can't imagine sleeping in a tent 38 inches tall and contemplating a Nemo Losi 3 with 48" of head space. At only 6.3 lbs, I'd love some feedback on this as well as other equipment mentioned above.

Doug

[kate]

Oooo, juicy subject for me!

It took awhile to wrap my head around the fact that I wouldn't be carrying everything on my back so weight was not the big issue.

Different people have different priorities - Mark likes to carry everything, even an iron skillet. I am comparatively minimalist, using my little alcohol stove and a single pot and spoon. It wasn't until 2 years ago that I allowed myself the luxury of a small camp pillow instead of rolling up clothing for a pillow. So, what you take depends on what you feel you need for enjoying the trip.

I swear by my Mountain Hardware Trango 2 tent. It's a 9-lb-er, but who cares? It will stand up to wind and rain, is free-standing (for pitching on rock slabs), and roomy with 2 nice vestibules and clear windows both overhead and through the front fly flap. I know that NOLS folks use this tent too. But I found it first!

A second tent choice would be one of the single-wall tents like the Hilleberg ones. I used one on my very first kayak camping trip with MIKCO and really liked it. Pricey though!

Sleeping bag - not down (if wet, doesn't insulate). But anything else is fine, I think. I bought a short compact one because I am not 6' tall. Figure on something warm to at least 40 degrees, maybe? It's cold at night on the water. I highly recommend the Exped Synmat 7 ground pad. I've never slept better in a tent. Makes all the difference for me. Seriously, go get one. They fold up very small (I don't use the pouch they come in - I roll them like a pencil and stuff into my old thermarest sack, to fit into the rearmost stern).

Cookware - again, I go minimalist. I'm not there to spend an hour on a meal. Your priorities may differ. I like my homemade alcohol stove. I take one pot with lid that doubles as saucepan, a bit of foil for a windscreen, a circle of wire mesh that serves as pot-stand over the stove, one spoon, my thermal mug. Done. Everything fits into the pot (except the mug). Mark would have a lengthier list The alcohol stove uses denatured alcohol which can be found at any hardware store, and which can be stored in a plastic bottle (an emptied Polar Springs or whatever), much easier to store than the clunky metal coleman fuel ones.

Other essentials: a nylon tarp with cord takes little room and is very handy on rainy days, if you are camping amidst trees. I like chart cases rather than laminated charts, simply because I can securely clip them to the deck lines. Having a chart disappear could be a real disaster. I swear by a deck bag for kayak camping trips. I like to have certain things at hand. Here's my deckbag list:

DECK BAG
sunblock
hood/hat/gloves
sunglasses
spare reading glasses
foghorn
emergency food bars
boat light
bag of carabiners
drysuit zipper wax
multitool
ibuprofen
throwrope

All this and more is listed on one of my trip report pages: http://www.cathyhart...an_supplies.htm and for what it's worth, here are a few gear reviews after that trip: http://www.cathyhart..._gearreview.htm (I still think those Playpus 4L bags suck. Will never use one again.)

Fun stuff, planning these trips!

Kate

[Doug]

Great breakdown Kate, thanks!
I think the tent will be my first priority as prices are deeply discounted this time of year.
Doug

[Warren]

Doug,

Wow! You are getting into kayak camping!! Excellent!

Just a few quick ideas and more to follow later. I have had success with the following; Hilleberg Staika (green) tent, Mountain Hardwear UltraLamina 32 regular and 45 regular, Exped SunMat 7 UL M.
Unfortunately, these items are not inexpensive, but they do provide a great camping experience.

Hopefully, we can camping this season on Casco, Muscongus or the Stonington islands. And let's not forget Squam Lake!

Warren

[EEL]

It took awhile to wrap my head around the fact that I wouldn't be carrying everything on my back so weight was not the big issue.

While I agree weight is much less an issue and certainly there is plenty of volume to take lots of stuff, I still think having a minimalist approach has many advantages. Loading and moving heavy boats/stuff over slick rocky shores tends to be nerve wracking to me especially when solo.

I swear by my Mountain Hardware Trango 2 tent. It's a 9-lb-er, but who cares? It will stand up to wind and rain, is free-standing (for pitching on rock slabs), and roomy with 2 nice vestibules and clear windows both overhead and through the front fly flap.

Seems to me tents have to be big enough to have a modicum of comfort while in them and the more time you might be in them means the bigger they need to be. I think for island camping being able to camp of rock slabs is a big advantage aesthetically, insect-wise, and enironmentally. Personally when the weather is OK and the bugs are tolerable, I don't see the need for any shelter. All tents seem confining to me and keep me isolated from why I am there in the first place. In any event, a tarp to me is a definite must have item.

I like my homemade alcohol stove.

I cannot get my head around the alcohol stove even though they obviously work well for their intended purpose. For long weekend trips one of the small butane stoves seems nearly as small and much more useful in terms of easy of use and heat control. On long trips I can see it, but they just seem to be a boil water stove much like the first JetBoils and MSRs seemed to be. It works, but I miss being able to throttle down a stove. I have a White Box one and one of the tiny ones made of titanium which I have toyed with it, but they just never struck my fancy I guess. I rather think we all have our ways of doing things (our craft so to speak) after time spent wandering about and while always looking at how to do things differently, what seems right for one will not for another.

Fun stuff, planning these trips!

Indeed it is.

Ed Lawson

[risingsn]

Though I'm not a big camper, I have a few ideas
-When Nancy & I kayak camp we always use a 3 man tent. It is nice to have the extra room in case you get weathered in
-As to stoves, I use a compact butane stove, easy to use & no mess. Alcohol can actually be very dangerous since you can't see the flame. As for carrying alcohol in a thin water bottle, that could make quite a mess if it leaks.
-I carry a SS multi-pot cook set, a titanium tea pot & cup.
-Also a folding camp table.

This along w/ everything else that you need. I feel the beauty of kayak camping is you can 'even bring the kitchen sink'.

All of our 'luxuries', including group gear & food, fits in my Avocet (16') & Nancy's Vela (15'8")for 2-4 days of camping.

Just my 2 cents ($2.50 w/ the coming inflation)
Chuck

[kate]

I cannot get my head around the alcohol stove even though they obviously work well for their intended purpose. For long weekend trips one of the small butane stoves seems nearly as small and much more useful in terms of easy of use and heat control. On long trips I can see it, but they just seem to be a boil water stove much like the first JetBoils and MSRs seemed to be. It works, but I miss being able to throttle down a stove. I have a White Box one and one of the tiny ones made of titanium which I have toyed with it, but they just never struck my fancy I guess. I rather think we all have our ways of doing things (our craft so to speak) after time spent wandering about and while always looking at how to do things differently, what seems right for one will not for another.

Just a note on this alcohol stove matter... I find them to simmer MUCH better than any other stove I've ever tried. You have to use the separate simmer cover, but then it will go on at a very low simmer for a good 20 minutes at least.

Also, I've had coleman stoves leak (and explode into flame!) more than once. I do not trust them. I've never had alcohol leak from the plastic bottles. Have you ever had water leak from one? I haven't. of course, I am careful in packing them, but I don't see danger here. And you can put them in a nalgene bottle instead, or any other container, if that feels safer. Just my experience over the past five years of 7-9 day trips, and subject to change, of course.

And I realize they are not for everyone. Mark doesn't like them (I don't know why not). I'm very happy with mine though.

Kate

[EEL]

I find them to simmer MUCH better than any other stove I've ever tried. You have to use the separate simmer cover, but then it will go on at a very low simmer for a good 20 minutes at least.

Interesting. Not sure how it would work the stoves I have which have jets on the side. Something else to research. I agree about leakage and even if it did, the consequences would be far less than leaked white gas.

Ed Lawson

[gyork]

Not sure how it would work the stoves
Ed Lawson

Smplicity at its finest. The furnace of the cat stove is surrounded by a two-tiered assembly of bigger cat cans. Figure on 2 Tbl. of fuel per meal.
My set-up: catstove
Link to how to build it: http://www.backpacki...tove/index.html

gary

[nchill]

Besides the obvious needs, I'll mention some optional things that you might want to think about.

The only item that I left behind and really missed on a MITA trip was a pillow. Stuffing clothes in a bag didn't work for me. There are lots of compressible pillows to choose from.

For comfort, I like my therm-a-rest trekker chair. You stuff it with your sleeping pad, but instead of getting my sleeping pad dirty, I bring a therm-a-rest ridge rest closed cell foam pad to use. I cut the ridge rest pad so that it fits between my seat and the forward bulkhead in my kayak. It's just the right length to stuff into the trekker chair without any folds (folds are OK, though). It's easy enough to shake the water off of it and leave it out in the sun to dry before needing to use it. The foam pad doesn't give as much support as an inflated pad, but it works well enough for me.

When I expect hot weather I bring my small hammock with small sil-nylon tarp, but it rarely gets used when I am with a group. I use it often when I am alone and expect to do some reading. If I get a rainy day, I would rather be in my hammock with the tarp than in my tent with limited visibility.

I can manage without a hammock or chair, but I do appreciate the comfort. Between the two I like the hammock the best, but a chair works better when sitting with a group.

Depending on where you are going, think about how to protect your food from hungry critters (bear-vault, hanging).

-Nancy

[jason]

Before my last trip I purchased a http://www.mountainhardwear.com/ "ExtraLamina™ 20 (Long)" sleeping bag and I would say it was so worth it.

(The URI's on the mountinhardwear site don't allow you to link to them:
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/
This is the bag from backcountry just not the long version that I have:
http://www.backcountry.com/mountain-hardwear-extralamina-20-sleeping-bag-20-degree-synthetic?CMP_SKU=MHW1799&MER=0406&CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&mv_pc=r126&003=7162907&010=MHW1799&mr:trackingCode=25C737A5-1640-E011-9ACB-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

It packs like a down bag (with work I can fit it into a 8L dry bag), it's warm and it's a synthetic bag that is big enough to allow me to zip it up. They have smaller versions that aren't as roomy but for me it's the best.

-Jason

[gyork]

.....and really missed on a MITA trip was a pillow.

If you have access to a sewing machine, a standard-sized zippered pillow undergarmet (the cover under the pillow "case")can be halved, and stuffed with your softest fleece clothes.

For comfort, I like my therm-a-rest trekker chair.

Seconded, or any other "crazy-creek" knock-off.

When I expect hot weather I bring my small hammock with small sil-nylon tarp...

Yup, 20 + 11 oz.

[Michael_Crouse]

So many choices for gear, camping methods, etc... just remember that that what everyone is going to tell you is what works for them, it's sort of like "what's the best boat for me?
Here's my 2 cent list of opinions

Tent - so many options, get something big enough that if you're pinned down in a thunder storm you wont be miserable, but small enough that you wont be searching for a place to pitch it. Free standing is nice, but for me it's not a necessity, even with a free standing tent you're staking out the vestibule and guy lines.
Tarp - get a sil tarp, they're small, light, and perfect to cook under on those rainy mornings. You can also pitch the tarp in the rain, then pitch your tent under it.
Sleeping bags - I usually use down, I just keep it in a dry bag, in a dry hatch, and pitch my tent where it will stay dry. Look at the Big Agnes bags with the sleeve for a sleeping pad.
Sleeping pad - I love my Exped down air mattress, yes it's bigger than a thin thermarest but it's thick, warm, and oh so comfortable. IMHO it's worth the extra weight
Cook set - I use a GSI aluminum non stick set and an outback oven. Stainless steel is heavy and it will mess with your compass, titanium isn't worth the cost/weight savings. Oh yea even if it's Ti or aluminum keep it away from your compass.
Stove - for ease of use the canister stoves are hard to beat, for cost/weight savings as far as fuel white gas is hard to beat.
Water - water bags and one bottle, who wants drink from a bag?
Food - make it yourself and eat the same thing you eat at home, camping on an island miles from shore is not the place to experiment with a new diet!

Maybe we should be thinking about another camping workshop?

[rick stoehrer]

ooh boy...this thread'll have legs.

i like tarps. handy for myriad uses. if the weather isn't going to blow, i just run the tow line out, rig the tarp over, stake it out and sleep beneath or simply roll up in it or if it's going to be snotty, rig it and then pitch everything below it...that way i can get out of the rain and still stand, sit, change, crawl into the tent. have a MH hammerhead and like it but it sure isn't small...but where i camp with J, then the added room is not optional...she'll get what she wants and she likes that tent.

stoves - have a brunton that will burn anything and you can field repair. not as fast as those little jet boil jobbers for boiling water but if you wanna do something besides just heat water and if you're going to camp when it's COLD, (and then butane ain't the way to go), then liquid fuel stove is handy.

pillows...dry bag and "stuff"

chair...cane creek rocks!

idea you might like...keep a few mesh bags handy in the boat...when you land and got to haul all this crap up to camp, you can stuff the mesh bags and make fewer trips.

the luxury i like most camping? dry clothes/dry feet and a nice warm hat - i get that, and everything is alllll right.

you'll come up with your own "set" and have your little rituals....what works for you. it's all good.

[EEL]

the luxury i like most camping? dry clothes/dry feet and a nice warm hat - i get that, and everything is alllll right.

you'll come up with your own "set" and have your little rituals....what works for you. it's all good.

I think you can deal with anything if you have dry clothes, warm head and feet, and a bit of hot tea/coffee/soup. At least for 24 hours or so.

To that end, keeping a thermos of hot tea/water for the day's paddle is a good thing. Then at end of day, get stuff out of boat, make camp, sit down, have a warm drink...good to go.

Keeping a set of nice dry/warm shore clothes is a very good thing and worth protecting Paddling stuff is just going to be damp and cool at best.

Having a few large mesh or cargo bags to dump hatch contents into and then to carry to camp spot is nice tip and I won't leave home without them.

I like to have a small notebook for keeping notes and log so I can relive trip and go over what works and what does not.

I'm with Crouse on down bags and Rick on tarp. In summer I use very light LaFuma synthetic bag good for around 50 and packs the size of a liter bottle. In the "shoulder"seasons my trusty down Holubar bag which packs the size of bread loaf. There are soooo many ways to rig a tarp to stay dry and comfy that they seem ideal to me for making a good shelter in odd places and no need to hunt for where the tent will fit.

Never underestimate the value a bit on line to rig stuff.
Never underestimate the value of little dry bags. I don't seem to use anything over 10 liters, but most are 2 to 8 liters. Oh, and label bags or put labeled tags on bags and used color coding too.

I find storing stuff in bags by function useful. When you are tired, hungry, its getting dark and the rain is nearly horizontal because its blowing like stink your brain needs all the help you can give it by pre-planning.

Always tie lines to anything you stuff in the ends of the boat (you would be amazed at how much can go in the bow and behind the skeg box) if you want to get get it back without major efforts.

I think of it as a luxury, but a binocular or monocular can be good for wildlife and navigation.

I think it is important for anyone reading this thread and hoping to find "answers"for how/what of camping to keep in mind what Rick says about everyone having their own little rituals.

Ed Lawson

[risingsn]

So many choices for gear, camping methods, etc... just remember that that what everyone is going to tell you is what works for them, it's sort of like "what's the best boat for me?
Here's my 2 cent list of opinions

Tent - so many options, get something big enough that if you're pinned down in a thunder storm you wont be miserable, but small enough that you wont be searching for a place to pitch it. Free standing is nice, but for me it's not a necessity, even with a free standing tent you're staking out the vestibule and guy lines.
Tarp - get a sil tarp, they're small, light, and perfect to cook under on those rainy mornings. You can also pitch the tarp in the rain, then pitch your tent under it.
Sleeping bags - I usually use down, I just keep it in a dry bag, in a dry hatch, and pitch my tent where it will stay dry. Look at the Big Agnes bags with the sleeve for a sleeping pad.
Sleeping pad - I love my Exped down air mattress, yes it's bigger than a thin thermarest but it's thick, warm, and oh so comfortable. IMHO it's worth the extra weight
Cook set - I use a GSI aluminum non stick set and an outback oven. Stainless steel is heavy and it will mess with your compass, titanium isn't worth the cost/weight savings. Oh yea even if it's Ti or aluminum keep it away from your compass.
Stove - for ease of use the canister stoves are hard to beat, for cost/weight savings as far as fuel white gas is hard to beat.
Water - water bags and one bottle, who wants drink from a bag?
Food - make it yourself and eat the same thing you eat at home, camping on an island miles from shore is not the place to experiment with a new diet!

Maybe we should be thinking about another camping workshop?

Hmmm, I always thought that SS was non-ferrous. Now I'll have to find a magnet & satisfy my curiosity.

[brambor]

also - remember when you first sat in a kayak and how you 'probably' wondered how in the heck will I last in a boat like this for hours? Like every new activity you will need to get accustomed to it. New sport - new muscle groups to use, not to mention your mind has to accept things...

What I am trying to say is that if you aren't accustomed to sleeping on hard ground then it will take about 2 or 3 nights/outings before you will sleep well. Actually for me it takes a trip or two every year before I'm comfy and able to sleep comfortably through the night. It will take some time before you will get used to sleeping in a sleeping bag (if you don't do it often). It will take some time before you settle on a comfortable routine that works for you. Just like with seakayaking - which you are very good at right now - it took a few repetitions to get there. :-)

[Phil_Allen]

In addition to a dry clothes, good sleeping bag, thick pad (I love the synmat from Exped) and a pillow, I recommend earplugs, a benadryl and shot of your favorite to induce sleep that first night in the woods. Works like a charm.

Phil

[prudenceb]

Re: Exped Synmat pads. Comfortable for the sleeper, maybe, but, man...those things are NOISY!

You'll need a lot more than one benadryl and a shot of your favorite whatever to get through the night if you're next door to someone who has one. When I'm camping with someone who uses one, I want to pitch my tent as far away as I can!

pru

[spider]

Hey Doug, just wanted to mention I updated my sleeping bag and tent these past couple of years.
I opted for "waterproof" down bags and a small freestanding tent.
The waterproof bags are not really waterproof because the zipper is the weak point, but it sure is nice when your tent may be wet and soppy but the bag stays dry.

Lot's of nice tents out there, some look for a tent that is a roomy, but over the years I actually didn't look for a tent big enough to change clothes in, just big enough to sleep in, and to escape bugs or weather if need be.

I would rather a roomy sleeping bag and a small tent. It's a drag to have a sleeping bag that is to small.
If it's a tight fit, you can actually loose some of the heat you might want because you are actually compressing the loft of the bag and not getting it's full "loft" which helps to warm you.

If for some reason you buy a bag without trying it first and find it tight some companies sell a narrow strip which can be zipped into your bag. (Most are made with a # 10 YK2 zip if I remember correctly)

So many sleeping pads to choose from...they can take up a lot of room.. Sometimes it's the bulkiest item so it's worth taking your time finding one that you will like in relation to the room you have.

Tarps... it took a number of years before I started using them as I never carried one back packing but for kayak camping I finally started using them. Though I don't always use it overhead I have found that if you have a good size one and fold it to about the size of your sleeping bag you can sleep on some of the stoniest shore line out there... snoozin like a babe.

Have fun...and remember what ever you wind up with the other person always has a "Gee I wish I had thought of that" item...to tantalize you for future trips !