Sleeping Bags

[Lisa]

Sadly I missed the Kayak Camping Workshop. I am looking for recommendations for a sleeping bag for spring, summer, fall camping. Thank you.

[rfolster]

It may be challenging to find one sleeping bag for all three seasons. You might do better getting two bags: a summer bag rated for 40-50 degrees, and a spring/fall bag rated 20-30 degrees. This all really depends on how warm or cold you generally sleep, but generally having two bags allows you the flexibility to adjust your sleeping comfort by using one or both bags together. If you are willing to go for separate bags eventually but don't want to spend the money now, get the spring/fall bag first and try using it opened up like a blanket in warmer weather. It is better to be a too warm on a summer night than to get hypothermia during a cool fall evening.

I personally like down bags for their light weight and good compression, with the understanding that the bag will be useless when wet. It is my personal belief that ANY sleeping bag will be useless when wet, but that is just me. The new technology that treats down with a water repellant is making down bags a much more viable option in that regards. No matter what insulation type you use, you must keep your bag dry in order to have a comfortable night.

You will have to balance cost with quality, since (with some exceptions) better insulation that is more compressible is typically more expensive. You can easily spend $300-$500 on a bag that you might have difficulty getting rid of if you find out that you really don't like camping. However, you can also spend $100 or less on a very disappointing bag if you decide you love camping and want to continue to do it as long as your body will let you. I think that a $200-$300 bag will serve you well, last for many years, but not break the bank if you call it quits.

Here is what I currently own:

Marmont Maverick 20 (discontinued) synthetic car-camping bag (not good for kayak camping and don't use it anymore)

REI Travel Sack 55 synthetic for summer

Kelty Cosmic 41 Dri-Down for early shoulder season

Marmont Pinnacle 15 down late shoulder season into winter

Thermarest Alpine Blanket 35 down to supplement or use alone for summer

Sea-To-Summit Reactor & Reactor Extreme bag liners to supplement or use alone for summer

Some of the other notes from the workshop were to consider how to pack your sleeping bag into the boat. I personally love the Sea-To-Summit eVent compression dry bags. They have performed very well for me for the 4-5 years we have been kayak camping. I also recommend that you stick with no larger than the medium (maybe large) eVent bags as they get too big to fit through a round hatch opening and generally take up too much room in any hatch. I also recommend no larger than a 10 liter dry bag, preferring multiple small bags to fewer larger ones. It is much easier to pack smaller dry bags into a boat than to fit the larger ones. One option with larger bags is to put them into the boat while empty and then stuff them with soft squishy things. This allows for better use of odd-shaped areas like the bow of a kayak, and they even make special "bow bags" for this specific reason. I hope some of this info helps, and I am willing to share more info if needed.

[Katherine]

Hi,

I'll check but I think I have a Mountain Hardware Luminaries 40 degree back and it's suited me fine for all 3 seasons and I could always put a liner in it for extra warmth.

[Michael_Crouse]

For years I used a cheap slumber jack over bag and a Marmot black magic bag liner. Combining the two covered me for almost three seasons.

You didn't mention sleeping pads, which you should think about since a lot of companies are putting sleeves (instead of insulation) in the bottom of their bags. This means (if you go the route) you will be tied to a manufacturer for your entire system.

For a cheaper down bag I like the MEC gossamer (I'm 99% sure that's the model) it's inexpensive, down fill, and it's a tapered rectangle with a full zip so you can use it like a quilt. It also comes in three lengths/sizes, so if you're 5'5" you're not stuck with a bag that will fit someone who is 6'+.

[JohnHuth]

A good solution is to get a 35 to 40 degree synth bag and also get a liner.

You can use the bag as a 'quilt' on a warm evening, as a bag in mid-temps, and then put in the liner for cold temps - a cost effective way to get three seasons out of it. I used this system section hiking the AT with my son and it worked well with big temperature swings in the mountains.

[Pintail]

There is yet another way to get off lightly with one sleeping bag for three-seasons: you buy one that is an intermediate bag (any decent salesperson at REI or any other good camping shop (I love Hilton's Tent City, on Friend Street, a few yards from North Station!) will assist you with temperature range) and then go and look on eBay for a Goretex ex-army surplus bivy-bag, which will serve you two-fold: (I) it will give you the extra warmth for beginning and end of season camping and (ii) it will keep your sleeping bag clean!

Bivy-bags are really cheap on eBay, if you can live with camouflage! (That might even be a good thing, if the Feds are after you!) ;^)

By the way, I usually employ an inner cotton sheet (also cheap, if you shop around) to keep the inside of my bag clean, too.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Pintail

[rfolster]

I usually employ an inner cotton sheet (also cheap, if you shop around) to keep the inside of my bag clean, too.

Cotton?!?! <Gasp!> Sacrilege!!

[EEL]

For three season backpacking and climbing in the Rockies, my bag of choice would be a slim 15-20 degree down mummy bag. I have used one for kayak camping as well and it worked well. No doubt in part due to fact down bags have a broad comfort range. Still it was definitely overkill for that application. As others have suggested my bag of choice has been a 45 degree synthetic bag for kayak camping. Mine is the Gabelas Evader which comes with a compression bag, costs about $80 and is small enough to go through any round hatch. Not from one of the big names, but it has performed very well for me.

Ed Lawson

[Suz]

Just been struggling with the sleeping bag issue myself. I will be kayak camping in Newfoundland at the beginning of June. The high for the day will be mid 50's with the nights averaging about 30. BUT it will be for a long period and cold during the day means I know that I will be sleeping cold during the night. The last trip up there the rainy days and the cold nights were difficult to manage. After much deliberation, I decided on a new down bag for a few reasons. 1 - the new down has been treated to stay dry (longer, probably not permanently!), 2 - the shell is made with Pertex which will help to shed water. 3 - the down bags pack SO much smaller than a synthetic bag rated same warmth rating.

My bag of choice for a hot summer night is a fleece bag from REI - really all fleece with a zipper. A fleece blanket would work just as well.

Mountain Hardwear Ultra Lamina 55 degree bag - can be combined with the above.

North Face Cats Meow - this one is my 20 degree bag. Bought it at the Outlet and I have never been happy with it as it is a right hand zipper instead of a left. I find when I read in my sleeping bag it always annoys me because it doesn't open the right way for me. This can also be combined with the fleece bag but the VOLUME really gets big (pack them separately, not in the same dry bag).

Marmot Plasma 15 - this bag is the one I am bringing to NFLD. It should hit the sweet spot for the night time temps. Packs smaller than my TNF Cat's Meow.

LLBean -20 Down bag - don't know the model. This bag is the one that I use when I sleep in the car (coldest place on earth in the late Fall. I can be warm and cozy after a tiring day and my body doesn't need to work hard to stay warm. Or outdoors in the winter when I needed to make space in the house for company. Really super warm but BIG! Certainly couldn't fit in my kayak.

Anyone else ever wake up in the middle of the night when it is cold and be super hungry? Enough that you need to grab an energy bar or something? That is because you are burning too many calories just to stay warm.

Another trick you can do - this one is from Rick Stoehrer - super easy and quick, make yourself a hot water bottle. Heat up water and put in a nalgene and drop that inside your sleeping bag (CLOSE THE TOP TIGHTLY - wrap in a fleece to keep from burning if too hot). Warms up cold toes super quick. No need to bring to a boil - just pretty hot. You can use sea water for this and not waste a drop of your fresh water. It does waste a bit of fuel so you may need to way that up...

[EEL]

"Heat up water and put in a nalgene and drop that inside your sleeping bag (CLOSE THE TOP TIGHTLY"

A friend of mine had an issue doing this on a winter camping trip. It was so cold (@-15F) that ice formed on the threads of the bottle cap before he screwed it on.

So it seemed to be on tight and did not leak..until later when it was at the bottom of his bag and it thawed out. Ended up with the bottom of the down bad hard as a brick and not so warm.

So while a great tip, take care doing it.

Ed Lawson

[gyork]

After using an "I'm a bit chilly" BBLean climashield synthetic 40 degree bag for my annual shoulder season (May, September), I'm now satisfied with my 35-degree down long semi-retangular bag with "hood" enclosure, from same vendor. Packs small, and should be ok for the warmer summer nites, with judicious adjustments to the (left-handed) zipper. Low temps during the past camping week varied from 47-53.

Edited May 18, 2015 by gyork

[Deb Millar]

Hi Lisa,

I'm an occasional car camper and probably not qualified to write a lot about proper sleeping bags, but I can tell you a good bag and a good sleeping pad can make the difference between cold-bodied agony and bliss while sleeping in the great outdoors.

Because I'm a cold sleeper and because I was in utter misery two years ago in Maine in May in my 12 year old synthetic North Face Cat's Eye bag, rated down to 20 degrees, I talked to a few winter campers and the great older gentleman salesperson at REI. They all advised down -- which, as Suzanne pointed out is now treated -- and they all advised NOT getting one with the opening for the sleeping pad. I ended up getting a Woman's Marmot Ouray, which is rated down to 0 degrees and I am, literally, a happy camper. While a 0 degree bag may seem extreme (and it ain't cheap, but I took out my own REI membership and used the member coupon that came with it.), I've found it works for me. I used it last year in August in southern Ontario, when the nighttime temp were in the 50's, and I was fine.

We have fleece liners, which I made. I'm definitely not a seamstress, but I measured our bags and went to JoAnn Fabrics for advice on how much fleece to buy. The total cost of the liners came to about $15, although not without a lot of naughty words -- I said I'm not a seamstress -- and some agita. I plan on making summer weight liners this year.

I have an Exped sleeping pad, which Phil Allen had recommended, and my husband has a NEMO. Again, both are in the $130+ range, but they provide an extra layer of warmth. Some people find them noisy, but neither of us has found this to be a problem.

You've gotten some great advice here. A good sleeping bag is an investment and the price differential -- Bob has a Sierra Designs rated down to 14 degrees as it got good reviews, but it's not as well constructed as mine -- sometimes shows up in how well made the bag is in whatever factory in China it comes from. Both are bags are mummy style, which neither of us finds confining.

Whatever you get, though, make sure it's a woman's bag. They're a bit wider at the hips than a man's but have extra padding at the foot as evidently women have colder feet.

Hope this helps.

Deb

Edited May 18, 2015 by Deb M

[Pintail]

<Cotton?!?! <Gasp!> Sacrilege!!>

And what is so sacrilegious, pray tell? I'm baffled...

[gyork]

Low temps during the past camping week varied from 47-53.

....and I use an insulated pad, similar to this one:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/hyalite-equipment-pacific-outdoor-equipment-adventurer-ac-sleeping-pad-inflatable-regular~p~4782v/?filterString=pacific-outdoor-equipment~b~16007%2F&colorFamily=02

[Lisa]

Thank you all for some awesome advice. It will be helpful as I research to find a sleeping bag. I wondered about the mummy style bags & was concerned about feeling confined. It seems people like these and do not find them confining. This is good to know. Thanks again for all the excellent suggestion; it is appreciated.

Lisa

[EEL]

Lisa:

While mummy bags are obviously more confining, most people easily adapt to them. More difficult for many is getting used to using the hood which is critical as the temps drop. A good hood will provide plenty of insulation around the head when it is cinched down to the point the opening for your nose and mouth is no larger than your fist on a three season bag and a cold weather bag the opening will much smaller. Another tip for when temps drop is to use a scarf to wrap around neck/shoulders to reduce the air flow in and out of the bag to reduce heat loss. Some cold weather bags have collars built in for this. When shopping for down bags pay attention to how the bag is baffled which is the internal structure for keeping the down in place.. For colder weather use this becomes very important as does the overall density and uniformity of the insulation regardless of insulation type. Make sure the foot section and the zipper area are built to provide adequate insulation.

One nice thing about down in addition to weight and compressibility is its durability. A good down bag will last decades.

Ed Lawson

[rfolster]

I wondered about the mummy style bags & was concerned about feeling confined. It seems people like these and do not find them confining.

I wouldn't say I like them, but like Ed said, you get used to them. The popularity of mummy bags is driven by the backpacking world where every ounce counts, and having a tapered mummy bag weighs less than a rectangular, or even semi-rectangular bag. There is also the theory that a mummy bag has less air space to warm up and keep warm, especially around the legs and feet, so you stay warmer easier. You can search for rectangular sleeping bags in both down and synthetic and still find high quality insulation models. Just keep in mind that a rectangular sleeping bag will take up more room than a mummy with the same insulation, however the difference will probably be minimal.

That brings up a question that we all failed to ask: What kind of camping are you interested in? Extended island-hopping where pack space and weight are a premium? Easy over-nights where you have greater leeway on packing space? Or maybe shoreline base-camping with the ease of having your car right at camp? How you want to camp may influence what type of gear you purchase, keeping in mind that a highly packable, light weight bag will still work just fine for overnights or car camping, but an inexpensive bulky bag may be difficult to bring on an extended trip. Not that it can't be done, but it is challenging, and I know from experience!

[rfolster]

<Cotton?!?! <Gasp!> Sacrilege!!>

And what is so sacrilegious, pray tell? I'm baffled...

This was just a tongue-in-cheek comment on the "strict" reluctance to use anything cotton when paddling or camping due to its tendency to absorb moisture and long drying time. That's why we spend oh-so-much money on those fancy sleeping bag liners that perform the same task.

[John Martinsen]

I always like to try a bag on, if I have the chance, to make sure it fits. A bag that fits too tight, say around the shoulders, compresses material making it cold and uncomfortable. Something too big can be difficult to warm up, can get cold spots, and be a pain to pack. So it's often good to go to an outdoor store, grab a pad and bag, and jump in. Zip it up, get in your happy sleep position, could you find yourself getting a good night sleep in there? Are the zippers easy to find and open, if it has a hood does it fit well, how easy can you get in and out of it. A good store might actually have a dedicated spot to do all this. Grab a bag liner and try the bag out with that. Worth trying out different pads as well, they have a huge impact on your comfort, wide or standard width? Also worth noting is how they inflat, if at all, by mouth, self inflating or some type of pump? I can't stand having to inflate an air mattress at the end of a long day. How small does it all pack dow? But beyond everything make sure it is comfortable and warm. As others have said nothing worse than sleeping cold, make sure you get a bag that will keep you comfortable temperature wise as well. 20 degrees is a good all arounder.

[brambor]

I generally tend to gravitate towards warmer bag. Manufacturers temp recommendations are usually somewhat optimistic.

If I wanted only 1 bag and didn't plan to do winter camping then I would go with a 20 degree bag. After all, if a bag is too hot then it can be unzipped partially or completely and used as a blanket. Camping in Maine the temperatures can plunge quite low even during summer months.

...but I am an old, decrepit hermit and over time I accumulated a number of sleeping bags so I probably have a bag for every season + more weird stuff like top quilts and a bag for 2... :-)

[Lisa]

Thanks you again. I have some great ideas and realize that my first sleeping bag will not be my last! I will adjust to the mummy bag and I know I will appreciate it what it is cold. I love the ideas about sleeping bag liners, especially making my own.

As far as type of camping, I will be doing car camping as well a kayak camping. Initially it will only be a few nights at a time.

Again, I appreciate all the feed back! Happy Memorial Day!